[IDEA] Multicurrency Wallet/Client

[VishwaJay]

I don't know how to program. Period. I don't have time to learn. I also don't have much motivation. What I do have is a basic idea that I'd like to talk over with people in this thread. I don't know how possible this idea really is, but after looking at about a dozen new software packages and reading about Bitcoins for about 30 hours to figure out what I'm actually looking at, I am at a conclusion:

I really don't like having 18 separate applications to manage my alt currencies.

I also love the idea of Armory, but it's a little lacking in what is actually needed by people like me who have a bunch of old, cheap machines that barely work, never mind being able to run a wallet and a miner (one of my older machines offers a whopping 2 KHash/sec, which is slower than my main machine's CPU speed).

So here's a list of features I would really like to see implemented, if there's an ambitious programmer out there willing to hack together the code into a Frankenstein's monster of an app for Windows (Linux people love to fidget with their systems, and I'm content to let them).

Yes, I realize that the block chains involved are enormous. Yes, I know it will take weeks to download (and yes, I know that's a slight exaggeration). But to be able to track, import and export wallets would be FAR simpler with one window instead of a dozen or more.

EDIT: I added a few new features.

Features Wishlist

• Standalone, independent client which doesn't HAVE to have other software to run correctly. (Do you hear me, Armory???)
• Windows GUI
  • Some eye candy for the sake of looking slick tends to decrease dissatisfaction if there are minor bugs.
  • Menus should be complete, but primary interface should also have tabs, buttons and check boxes, etc., to make it more intuitive.
  • (I can put together a graphic of what I envision it to look like, if needed, and I'm willing to do it)
• Multicurrency tracking
  
  • BTC
  • LTC
  • PPC
  • TRC
  • Other coins as they become popular and adopted by the community (similar to UfaSoft Coin, but not necessarily the same as)
• Import/export of private keys (optionally through GPG, if installed on the end user's system) so that wallets are easily backed up.
• Import of private keys from other sources (for example, Terracoin.info or MtGox.com) to track accounts.
• Import of external wallets from already-existing clients (and TESTING to make sure that passworded wallets can actually be imported!)
• Integration with popular mining pools for stats (for example, Slush's pool's stats, or Coinotron, etc. ... pools which seem well-established)
• Integration with good miners, with stats similar in scope to cgminer/BFGminer (perhaps through log analysis, etc.)
• Real-time graphing of in/out traffic, validation of block chains, peers, etc.
• Included OPTIONAL and useful sound alerts for new payments received, confirmed, etc., as well as the ability to customize these sounds in the Windows Sounds environment.
• Integrated mining (similar to the LTC client, but with options to use different miners with different pieces of hardware, etc., for maximum mining efficiency)
  • All flags for included miner(s) are in the software, with presets and settable levels which update on the fly without the need to know the CLI.
  • Pool payout calculator (to keep certain mining pools honest about their maths, if there is some suspicion of cheating).
  • A log of all accepts, stales, rejects, difficulties, etc., for proof-of-work if it happens that someone really isn't cheating.
  • A log of all pool communications, for reasons of demonstrating MITM vulnerabilities, if they should happen.
  • Adjustable verbosity on all logs (and even the capacity to turn them off, if desired).
• Multilanguage interface (so I can share with my friends in Japan, France, Russia and the Americas).

I'm a week into this Bitcoin thing as I write. There are lots of programs that have pieces of these already written and integrated. It might be just a simple matter of putting them all together. I'm lamenting never learning to program, but as I said I don't have the time to learn right now because of my other job.

How's that for a newb? A week in, thinks he owns the place.

Any takers?

[1714855656]

1714855656

[VishwaJay]

I did actually look at the forums, found several failures, but nothing that combines these features.

And if you really wanted to be helpful, a link to the one you're talking about would not go amiss.

[VishwaJay]

Oddly, I'm not the only one who would want or need such a client... it's kind of what is needed for tracking investment into the market.

Seriously, if you're not going to be helpful, stop trolling my thread.

[MashRinx]

Oddly, I'm not the only one who would want or need such a client... it's kind of what is needed for tracking investment into the market.

Seriously, if you're not going to be helpful, stop trolling my thread.

Vishwajay, first, welcome.  I really don't think that gweedo is trying to troll your thread.  I'm not either, for that matter.  

What you're asking for is pretty huge.  Frankly, I really like the idea you are proposing too.  I'm not a BTC veteran by any means, but I have been mining since Jan 2012, and having all of these features in one app/place would be really cool.  Bitcoin and alt currencies are a bit of a beast.  The different clients, what miner to use, what pool,(s) to mine on, etc.,  but I'm not sure that anyone trying to bring all of this together in one cohesive binary is even possible at this point, let alone feasible.  Many of the different pieces of this puzzle are still in very active development.

I'm not an accomplished programmer either (I'm a decent one, I guess?), but I have looked at the source for the Bitcoin-QT client and CG miner.  There are some talented people supporting and improving all of this code and these different apps and pools.

Maybe I'm wrong and there is someone brave enough to take this on, but I wouldn't be too surprised to hear "are you kidding?" more than once.

Best of luck around here.  You'll find your share of not-so-helpful people, but there are a lot of very sharp, helpful people around here too.  Have fun.

[VishwaJay]

I am not even trolling, plus I am programmer so you should be nice to me. Also if it was needed wouldn't other people post in here beside me?

Not necessarily... if they're not interested in new and innovative projects (not mine, which isn't particularly innovative as much as it is ambitious), then they wouldn't necessarily come into this forum, never mind my humble thread which is clearly "just an idea" and not really even serious yet. There have been great pains to avoid too much attention with this. It's easy to see who takes it seriously.

The features aren't unique to me; they're already in quite a number of clients, but to get this functionality, I have to slow my little laptop down with 14 different programs... and since they're all open source (these 14, I mean), how hard would it be to copypasta and cobble and coordinate? I don't know, because I'm not a programmer.

The code already exists, because it's a part of these other clients. But what lacks is something that does something in a more monolithic way. I mean, why would you want to use Notepad.exe to write text, TeX to format, a spell checker, and 25 other programs for different things you might do with a writing document, when a single word processing program does the task?

Cryptocurrency should be a singular task, not something that needs juggling all over the place. Ufasoft Coin has some great features, but it's so simplistic that it's easy to get frustrated with the utter lack of features. But it works, and it's minimal at best. But then, I need a different wallet program (which is actually larger than Ufasoft Coin) to manage a single other currency that Ufasoft lacks. And I can't add it into Ufasoft because it's really too complex a task for someone who resolves other peoples' crises all day... I just do not have the time available to learn to program myself.

So, as to need, why do we "need" cryptocurrency at all? It was kind of a weird idea a couple years ago, but one post on a Wall Street Journal log, and suddenly everyone's inb4 "bubble will pop". It's the same mindset as the tech stocks of the late 1990's. It's the same as the housing investment boom 10 years ago. When too much goes into it, it eventually tanks unless there's some kind of method of diversification.

People didn't see a need for home computers in the mid-1970s--Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were turned down by lots of companies who didn't see that there was a need.

People don't see the need, but that's no reason to say it doesn't exist. Those who can see it enough to at least assess its value are said to have vision. That's the point of this monolithic idea... to consolidate what's been done under a singular project.

I could honestly care less if you're a programmer... I would be nice to you in person the same as anyone else, until you were less than kind to me. I treat people as people, not as resources. So you should be nicer to everyone (not just me) and at least offer proof that it's been tried... because so far, all I see is a whole lot of fail in the software projects people claim is open source, rather than actually working to collaborate on something which would benefit everyone.

[VishwaJay]

Vishwajay, first, welcome.  I really don't think that gweedo is trying to troll your thread.  I'm not either, for that matter.  

Thank you. And I understand that. It's one thing to explain reality; and another to simply say: "That'll never work! It's been done!" (which was the leading answer I received).

What you're asking for is pretty huge.  Frankly, I really like the idea you are proposing too.  I'm not a BTC veteran by any means, but I have been mining since Jan 2012, and having all of these features in one app/place would be really cool.  Bitcoin and alt currencies are a bit of a beast.  The different clients, what miner to use, what pool,(s) to mine on, etc.,  but I'm not sure that anyone trying to bring all of this together in one cohesive binary is even possible at this point, let alone feasible.  Many of the different pieces of this puzzle are still in very active development.

I realize it's monolithic in scope. I've worked with programmers in the past to produce vertical projects for church groups and relief organizations (NGO's), so I understand the difficulty of "getting it right" with regard to programming, especially in the open source world where people have to be motivated to do anything worthwhile (rather than the simple stuff, which is done fairly quickly, until a project gains some prestige and then everyone wants in on it).

I don't believe in the word "impossible" because I do "impossible" things on a regular basis (like help people who are labeled "lost cause" because others have given up). The idea is sound; the question I have is feasibility, as you said. The pieces of the puzzle are all there... it will take collaboration and swallowing some pride (so that collaboration is collaboration and not "mine's more important than yours is" contests that tend to dominate programming projects).

Active collaboration, and not demeaning ideas, is what actually gets things moving. That's the real aim of this project: to get the various people who are developing the parts to consider the idea of pulling the pieces a little closer together so that we can maybe see that there even is a "bigger picture" to see.

I'm not an accomplished programmer either (I'm a decent one, I guess?), but I have looked at the source for the Bitcoin-QT client and CG miner.  There are some talented people supporting and improving all of this code and these different apps and pools.

Maybe I'm wrong and there is someone brave enough to take this on, but I wouldn't be too surprised to hear "are you kidding?" more than once.

Best of luck around here.  You'll find your share of not-so-helpful people, but there are a lot of very sharp, helpful people around here too.  Have fun.

I've noticed the helpful ones, which is why it's easy to dismiss gweedo's slightly abrasive posts as simple trolling. Your post had a tone which was in fact helpful in explaining. There is a big difference between the two. One tries to dismiss the idea outright; the other explains some of the things which are difficult to overcome.

It's a matter of vision, as I wrote above.

[VishwaJay]

As I said, gweedo: you were easy to dismiss as a troll because of your sour and bitter attitude.

It's not that you didn't have the answer I wanted; it's that your way of putting it was something I couldn't understand.

Wasn't taking anything out on anyone... but you're kind of an asshole.

[VishwaJay]

As I said, gweedo: you were easy to dismiss as a troll because of your sour and bitter attitude.

It's not that you didn't have the answer I wanted; it's that your way of putting it was something I couldn't understand.

Wasn't taking anything out on anyone... but you're kind of an asshole.

[Sukrim]

Check out ufasoft coin...

Anyways, the ideas you present are not new - the problem is rather in the execution and it also doesn't seem as if you want to help in that by either offering to pay a developer or doing something yourself.

[Operatr]

It would be nice to be able to manage several currencies with the same client instead of having to run separate wallets for each one. Though, maybe the price we pay for hedging our bets on several cryptos coming to prominence beyond just Bitcoin. Just have to put up with that element to play in everyone's sandbox.

[VishwaJay]

I run Ufasoft Coin, actually. I did mention it above, in my "Features Wishlist".

It's not that I don't want to be helpful; it's that I'm really interested to see how much of a community it really is, because that's what will determine if cryptocurrency sinks or swims. It's what made Linux work (community being present), it's why great ideas often don't (lacking community), and it's what makes all things possible.

It's why Ubuntu is more popular than other Linux distros: their willingness to band together for what's good, rather than simply dismiss new ideas. I don't have the time to learn how to program (I've tried in the past, it takes more time than I have available because I'm riding that thin line between "barely making it" and "not making it at all" that so many people do). However, that doesn't mean I'm completely unable to contribute... I know just enough about code to be able to write some good help files in English, and maybe even do some of the graphic work for the GUI that I've outlined. I can help with some planning and I can read UML use-case stuff pretty easily. I've done project management in the past, but I don't think anyone here knows me well enough for me to do any of that (there is some trust required, which has to either be built over time or otherwise motivated, such as being told "this is the project manager" by someone who is trusted, etc.).

The reason we have central authorities at all is because human beings love organization (just look at the way our computers work, and at how our governments and commerce and basically anything else works: we love our systems).

So, just because I don't program, that's not any real reason to dismiss me. I'm willing to do work, I just have to work within the skill set I already have for now.

[VishwaJay]

Zhou Tong (a programmer from this forum) said:

...the best way to be known in the Internet industry is to build products that save people time, money and headaches.

If you think this is swimming... wow. Just wow. The community itself is healthy, but sinking because of its inability to cope with the learning curve.

And as for "falling for" my "rant" you're obviously mistaken as to the nature and purpose of this post. Again, it's harder for me NOT to simply dismiss your ravings as trolling something you disagree with. If you don't like it, stop bumping my thread... simple as that.

[VishwaJay]

Trolls are so cute. They make me want to force my children to play with them.

[gweedo]

Trolls are so cute. They make me want to force my children to play with them.

I pointed out facts and that makes me a troll, ignorant people are shouldn't be allowed to speak.

[virtimus]

Back to the subject:

I'm just in a process of formulating simililar Idea.

I plan to develop a modular multicurrency p2p client not only as a wallet but also for mining purposes, statistics, managing private mining pool and some other operations.

It would be good to start the project not alone.
I need consultancy in current market shape and "second pair of eyes" is also an advantage...

The plan is to open-source the project.

My plan is to get a set of wallets and instead of integrating their code - integrate them functionally as a set of "plugin-wrappers" into new app (idea for name is welcome).

Strength of such aproach would be further easy synchronizing with  walets code upgrades/changes
 

For prototype - BTC/LTC integration (using existing local databases - no need to resynchronising, no need to deinstall anything).

Nice small taskbar app + plugins + plugin/app talk api ....

The prototype seems to be one long night job   (I'm always too optimistic

Any thoughts ? Someone mentioned failures ... what were the reasons ? have to dig a little maybe before getting to work on it ...

[virtimus]

Back to the subject:

I'm just in a process of formulating simililar Idea.

I plan to develop a modular multicurrency p2p client not only as a wallet but also for mining purposes, statistics, managing private mining pool and some other operations.

It would be good to start the project not alone.
I need consultancy in current market shape and "second pair of eyes" is also an advantage...

The plan is to open-source the project.

My plan is to get a set of wallets and instead of integrating their code - integrate them functionally as a set of "plugin-wrappers" into new app (idea for name is welcome).

Strength of such aproach would be further easy synchronizing with  walets code upgrades/changes
 

For prototype - BTC/LTC integration (using existing local databases - no need to resynchronising, no need to deinstall anything).

Nice small taskbar app + plugins + plugin/app talk api ....

The prototype seems to be one long night job   (I'm always too optimistic)

Any thoughts ? Someone mentioned failures ... what were the reasons ? have to dig a little maybe before getting to work on it ...

[virtimus]

I'm progressing with my prototype.
Have already desktop (host) application with HTML interface.

The round-trip API for a plugin is to generate some HTML for displaing inside HostApp (inside separate tab/layer for instance).
And then special ("ex" object) javascript calls inside the HTML will be forwarded by the host app to plugin DLL. 

So - integrating new plugin/wallet will be a matter of generating HTML interface and handling back javascript events.
It should be also quite easy to integrate some online statistics (web pages?) as a plugin.

I've already  compiled BTC client under MinGW - first candidate for integrating as a plugin.

I think I will have to create a separate threads for each plugin to work smoothly.

Quite a piece of work yet ahead.

[VishwaJay]

It was not the facts you pointed out.

It was the judgments you put into the middle of them.