johnyj
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Beyond Imagination
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April 10, 2013, 01:21:01 PM |
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"the economy of the next generation"  |
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"Bitcoin: the cutting edge of begging technology." -- Giraffe.BTC
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BTC Books
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April 10, 2013, 01:29:50 PM |
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They could purchase 500K - 1M coins without moving the market very much using dark pools. I highly doubt they would barrel in all at once with 1B. But yes, 1B would affect the exchanges.
Dark pools do not create coins. They have to buy them somewhere. Or mine them. What would be the interest of a miner to sell large quantities of coins at bulk price when they can sell them higher on open markets ? Do you think I'm mentally retarded? Dark pools also help large holders sell large quantities so that they do not crash the market, because of one of the large sellers tried to unload 500K coins.....no, they would not get higher prices on the open market. You didn't answer the question : why - in such a bullish market - would anyone with a large number of coins trying to cash out prefer to sell them at a "fixed" price somehow "under" the mtgox price when he can simply build a wall and quietly wait for somebody to buy it at its price ? Why ? For anonymity ? He will have to cash the check someday and pay its taxes. Unless he "dark buyer" pays in cash which I don't believe. Unless, of course, the dark pool buyer is stuck in MtGox verification queue and is ready to pay a nice premium to buy its coins today and "win" 10 days. At the current growth rate, it means the seller could ask $1000/BTC and not sound ridiculous. You kind of have it ass-backwards. Getting a discount for cash is not a phenomenon that's limited to flea markets and second-hand stores... |
Dankedan: price seems low, time to sell I think...
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Manticore
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April 10, 2013, 02:21:44 PM
Last edit: April 10, 2013, 03:12:53 PM by Manticore |
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You didn't answer the question : why - in such a bullish market - would anyone with a large number of coins trying to cash out prefer to sell them at a "fixed" price somehow "under" the mtgox price when he can simply build a wall and quietly wait for somebody to buy it at its price ? Why ? For anonymity ? He will have to cash the check someday and pay its taxes. Unless he "dark buyer" pays in cash which I don't believe.
Let's say a hedge fund wants to buy 500K coins. Let's say an old BTC holder wants to sell 500K coins. These people don't know each other and decide to go on the open market, but chances are they won't make their trades at the same time. If one tries to unload 500K coins, what do you think would happen to the market? It would go down substantially, even if he/she did it in a controlled way....How about if someone tried to buy 500K coins? Yes.....the market would go up erratically. With dark pools, these two large players can find each other and transact without impacting the overall public market as much. And they don't even have to reveal exactly how much they want to buy/sell. |
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Manticore
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April 10, 2013, 02:23:06 PM |
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Most of my neighbors are traders, given that I live within spitting distance of Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan and about 15 other mega banks. Trust me Bitcoin has not hit the London financial crowd yet. The only people who seem to be making noise are doing so to pump up the value of their own investments. There are no big moves in London to invest in Bitcoin because there isn't anyway to begin pumping such cash into Bitcoin with the current exchanges in place. Nobody in their right mind would send such huge volumes of cash into an exchange like MTGOX who is tainted for life with the last hack crash. The London traders will start getting serious if we had a serious exchange in the UK which allowed GBP deposits. Sorry but Intersango doesn't count. Thank you. I've been saying this for awhile now. Career suicide. |
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Manticore
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April 10, 2013, 02:27:40 PM |
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On Wall Street, there are individual traders dabbling. Institutional money would NEVER touch this. I could see some hedge funds getting involved, perhaps, on a limited basis.....the very high risk capital. Most are completely discounting bitcoin but there are a few who are intrigued about it enough to be vocal.
It's mainly the lone trader playing around with his/her (not firm's) risk capital.
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Manticore
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April 10, 2013, 02:33:52 PM |
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Unless, of course, the dark pool buyer is stuck in MtGox verification queue and is ready to pay a nice premium to buy its coins today and "win" 10 days. At the current growth rate, it means the seller could ask $1000/BTC and not sound ridiculous.
Dark pools would seek BTC that are closely held outside of Gox. |
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Manticore
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April 10, 2013, 02:42:24 PM
Last edit: April 10, 2013, 03:01:06 PM by Manticore |
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I don't understand what exactly Exante need Max for, other than advertising. Is that the deal? I'll go on tv and tell people about your hedge fund for a 2% fee. How does RT not ban this crap.
Max is actually very connected in that world. Look at who he sold his companies too and look at the companies he started. He's actually one of the first to do virtual currencies and if I have he right he owns some kind of patent. Max has grown on me. He's a strange guy. The idea has not warmed up to the vast majority the east coast hedge fund/private equity world, but they do know about it. They (generally speaking) believe bitcoins current success is symptomatic of the world's problems but they don't see bitcoin as a solution. I think private equity on the west coast has a very different view.....they are probably quite bullish. |
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Manticore
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April 10, 2013, 02:52:10 PM |
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Let's say a hedge fund wants to buy 500K coins. Let's say an old BTC holder wants to sell 500K coins. These people don't know each other and decide to go on the open market, but chances are they won't make their trades at the same time. If one tries to unload 500K coins, what do you think would happend to the market? It would go down substantially, even if he/she did it in a controlled way....How about if someone tried to buy 500K in coins? Yes.....the market would go up erratically.
With dark pools, these two large players can find each other and transact without impacting the overall market as much. And they don't even have to reveal exactly how much they want to buy/sell.
I perfectly understand how it works, except : I don't think there is any "old BTC holder" that wants to sell 500K coin today. Old BTC holders are normal people that just happened to understand Bitcoin before me. If they survived up to now with so many coins they will only convert them when they have an immediate need for fiat. And they are not financial institutions that need to cash out 125 millions of dollars at the end of the month. I can't see what they could buy that they couldn't buy with 1000 or 5000 BTC. So I think the current exchange are good for them. Tradehill.com disagrees. |
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dg2010
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April 10, 2013, 02:54:31 PM |
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I perfectly understand how it works, except : I don't think there is any "old BTC holder" that wants to sell 500K coin today.
Old BTC holders are normal people that just happened to understand Bitcoin before me. If they survived up to now with so many coins they will only convert them when they have an immediate need for fiat. And they are not financial institutions that need to cash out 125 millions of dollars at the end of the month. I can't see what they could buy that they couldn't buy with 1000 or 5000 BTC. So I think the current exchange are good for them.
This is fucking stupid. You are trying to pigeonhole a whole bunch of people into your own way of thinking. That is simply not the case. |
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600watt
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April 10, 2013, 03:08:19 PM |
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In the german forums here, someone did have a good question.
Why did Max Keiser announce the plans? Announcing this makes the exchange rate grow... and they would need to spend more per BTC
Maybe he just want to push the exchange rate with that kind of news so that he can sell at very high profit soon?
Can somebody explain if there is a logic? because this sounds scarry. Maybe we are really a playball here and nothing else?
mr keiser holds btc. he knows if he announces price will go up. (good job) when the funds actually go in prices will go up another round. (good job) i wish it would rise slower and more steady, but the entire world is getting attention drawn to this "cash-miracle". it´s a greed game. unlimited greed = unlimited rise of price. until someones yells: the keiser is naked! (...) |
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essem
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April 10, 2013, 03:28:41 PM |
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Most of my neighbors are traders, given that I live within spitting distance of Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan and about 15 other mega banks. Trust me Bitcoin has not hit the London financial crowd yet. The only people who seem to be making noise are doing so to pump up the value of their own investments. There are no big moves in London to invest in Bitcoin because there isn't anyway to begin pumping such cash into Bitcoin with the current exchanges in place. Nobody in their right mind would send such huge volumes of cash into an exchange like MTGOX who is tainted for life with the last hack crash. The London traders will start getting serious if we had a serious exchange in the UK which allowed GBP deposits. Sorry but Intersango doesn't count. I was speaking to a friend who has a very senior position within AML and not many knew about bitcoin and those that did deemed irrelevant, however this happened a little back when the market cap was $20-30 million |
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damnek
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April 10, 2013, 04:03:14 PM |
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Looks like the Max Keiser pump didn't help much..
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theta
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April 10, 2013, 04:45:19 PM |
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Most of my neighbors are traders, given that I live within spitting distance of Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan and about 15 other mega banks.
So, which neighborhood is within spitting distance of both the City (where JPM is) and Canary Wharf (where Morgan Stanley is)? |
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