P2P Exchange for bitcoin

[elqntdotorg]

As far as I understand it is a kind of P2P decentralized localbitcoins, right?

Yep 

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[BTCLuke]

As far as I understand it is a kind of P2P decentralized localbitcoins, right?

Yep 

It's actually quite Eloquent. Congrats.

Localbitcoins will be jealous.

Here are 2 ideas for getting the leg-up on them:

1. Lamassu machines are due to be mass produced this summer... They say they've already got hundreds of orders from around the globe. Make sure you get every new owner in your system as soon as they start business... Perhaps even make a special marker on your map just for their locations, to differentiate them from the average user.

2. Find a way to build-in escrow, even if just a link to a 3rd party, for people that just want to trade online.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I've been working on a new peer-to-peer exchange that employs WebRTC for the past few weeks. 

It's pretty unique because it fully complies with FinCEN's regulations around exchange because all communication in the platform is conducted directly peer-to-peer and subsequent exchanges are conducted physically by the respective exchangers (I'd love to employ an online transfer in further iterations, but don't have a good solution yet). 

I just went live with an early alpha tonight if others would like to try it out and give feedback. 

My primary goal with the platform is give as much anonymity as possible, meaning that I self-host all files (no external js).  I'm stuck using an external tile-server (which means mapquest logs some data, including IP + timestamp), but I hope to get some capacity soon to bring that in-house as well so no external logging of users occurs (beyond ISPs).

The site is elqnt.org (pronounced eloquent).

Best,
Stephen

Looks slick ... what are the mechanics/specs on the back-end security ... TLS comms, etc?

[elqntdotorg]

As far as I understand it is a kind of P2P decentralized localbitcoins, right?

Yep 

It's actually quite Eloquent. Congrats.

Localbitcoins will be jealous.

Here are 2 ideas for getting the leg-up on them:

1. Lamassu machines are due to be mass produced this summer... They say they've already got hundreds of orders from around the globe. Make sure you get every new owner in your system as soon as they start business... Perhaps even make a special marker on your map just for their locations, to differentiate them from the average user.

2. Find a way to build-in escrow, even if just a link to a 3rd party, for people that just want to trade online.

Thanks!  I'm super excited to be building something valuable for the community. 

Re: your points --

1. Thanks for the heads up!  In contact...

2. In process...

[elqntdotorg]

I've been working on a new peer-to-peer exchange that employs WebRTC for the past few weeks. 

It's pretty unique because it fully complies with FinCEN's regulations around exchange because all communication in the platform is conducted directly peer-to-peer and subsequent exchanges are conducted physically by the respective exchangers (I'd love to employ an online transfer in further iterations, but don't have a good solution yet). 

I just went live with an early alpha tonight if others would like to try it out and give feedback. 

My primary goal with the platform is give as much anonymity as possible, meaning that I self-host all files (no external js).  I'm stuck using an external tile-server (which means mapquest logs some data, including IP + timestamp), but I hope to get some capacity soon to bring that in-house as well so no external logging of users occurs (beyond ISPs).

The site is elqnt.org (pronounced eloquent).

Best,
Stephen

Looks slick ... what are the mechanics/specs on the back-end security ... TLS comms, etc?

Thanks, really appreciated. 

Just integrated 2048-bit SSL today (made it a priority based on your comment). 

All web and WebSocket traffic are encrypted now.  This coverage also includes all peer-to-peer communication as well.

[elqntdotorg]

I've been working on a new peer-to-peer exchange that employs WebRTC for the past few weeks.  

It's pretty unique because it fully complies with FinCEN's regulations around exchange because all communication in the platform is conducted directly peer-to-peer and subsequent exchanges are conducted physically by the respective exchangers (I'd love to employ an online transfer in further iterations, but don't have a good solution yet).  

I just went live with an early alpha tonight if others would like to try it out and give feedback.  

My primary goal with the platform is give as much anonymity as possible, meaning that I self-host all files (no external js).  I'm stuck using an external tile-server (which means mapquest logs some data, including IP + timestamp), but I hope to get some capacity soon to bring that in-house as well so no external logging of users occurs (beyond ISPs).

The site is elqnt.org (pronounced eloquent).

Best,
Stephen

Looks slick ... what are the mechanics/specs on the back-end security ... TLS comms, etc?

In follow-up to back-end security --

I host the web server and peer server in-house.
Analytics utilized (Piwik) are self-hosted as well, in-house.  I also plan to let users opt-out of ananlytics, but haven't had time yet to set this up.  
All JS is self-hosted as well, in-house.

Basically this means no external logging occurs, except for the tile server (for the time being) and any other ISP related logging.

Tile server uses ssl, but is currently hosted through MapQuest and serves Open Street Map tiles.  I'd like to bring this in house, but the hardware requirements are a bit beyond what my stuff can swing at the moment.  For details on the data they collect, check it out here -- http://developer.mapquest.com/web/info/terms-of-use
Specific section in their ToS is: ACCESS AND USAGE DATA > Usage Data

[KSV]

wow looks real sleek - if u need support from sweden i m in

[elqntdotorg]

wow looks real sleek - if u need support from sweden i m in

Thanks!  Definitely will.  The plan is to open source everything this week.  Once that goes live I'll do one more post to let everyone know. 

I'm also going to be starting up a new threat just for Elqnt so I don't further clog up this one

[elqntdotorg]

It's finally here!  I just released the new version of Elqnt.org

This version is mostly a re-write (about 70% of the code) to use Ember.js.  You won't notice really any major functionality changes yet, but you'll definitely notice some significant UI changes w/ the seller + buyer workflows.  Bugs abound, but I'm knocking them out as fast as I can.

Also, big news, I've open sourced the entirety of the platform.  I'd definitely love if anyone is up for jumping in to help develop Elqnt (I've also got larger plans for the brand on the whole).  

The Elqnt Thread -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=259659

Best,
Stephen

[gollum]

Max Keiser mentions a concept reminding of what we have proposed in this thread: a distributed exchange for any asset, based on blockchain

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-01-19/bitcoin-20-aka-ultra-coin-bitcoins-derivative-layer-allows-virtual-control-re
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPmkeio3jJQ

[k99]

I announced a proposal for a solution of the "how to get the fiat in/out" problem.

BANK RUN! - P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462236

I am looking for developers, if you are interested PM me.

[cointouch]

Check out https://www.cointouch.com/ (my site)

CoinTouch uses the Facebook social graph (traversing friends of friends) to find bids and offers for bitcoins. It's P2P in the sense that all transactions happen directly between individuals. There is a single point of failure - the cluster that hosts the site.

I'd like to explorer a BitTorrent-style model to remove this dependency, although we'd need to pre-seed clients with a list of supernodes, right?

[k99]

Check out https://www.cointouch.com/ (my site)

CoinTouch uses the Facebook social graph (traversing friends of friends) to find bids and offers for bitcoins. It's P2P in the sense that all transactions happen directly between individuals. There is a single point of failure - the cluster that hosts the site.

I'd like to explorer a BitTorrent-style model to remove this dependency, although we'd need to pre-seed clients with a list of supernodes, right?

Interesting project!
But as you mentioned the dependency to Facebook is a problem for decentralized pure P2P.
The original ripple idea (not the Ripple.com) was the same direction.
For me the friends net concept has 2 problems:
1. I may not want to share my financial behaviour with friends
2. Trust based on friendship could break friendship. Also does only protect against fraud but not against default. If a friend is too less cautious with his trust relationships, he could get in trouble some day and all others connected with him. In Ripple that is a problem, there was one thread exposing that risk in an social experiment. A lot of peole lost money because they did not fully understand the consequences if you setup a trust relationship (you guarantee for the other).

In my proposal trus ti replaced with the collateral and the "game structure". So the losses are limited to the session and in normal circumstances there should be no risk to lose money.

[cointouch]

The social network "inferred trust" issue is a flaw in my model, yes.

Perhaps some people would be willing to offer escrow to people in the social graph (i.e. if they are the link between two people, they could be an intermediary and take some cut of the transaction?). That way people only have to trust their direct connections.

[marcus_of_augustus]

There is a single point of failure - the cluster that hosts the site.

I'd like to explorer a BitTorrent-style model to remove this dependency, although we'd need to pre-seed clients with a list of supernodes, right?

Could you somehow leverage it to go on top of twister? It would would give you the BitTorrent-style platform.
http://twister.net.co/

[CryptStorm]

Hi,

I just wanted to say that a p2p exchange is desperately needed, and I'm very glad to see this thread, and like several others, I have also been thinking about this for some time. Bravo!

My vision of a p2p exchange differs from the one here. My concern is that the market micro-structures that deal with liquidity and volatility are already fairly well described and at play in major capital markets, although the lack of transparency encourages fraud, kleptocracy and worse.

Any attempts at a p2p exchange need to understand these basic components and then use the technology to extend the ease of use, creating resiliency and efficiency in the market. Changing the roll of brokers, creating virtual-exchanges inside of a p2p exchange, and discounting the roles of market makers are all examples where some of this OT runs amok.

However, having the exchange be decentralized is the right way to go. Creating a 'slow' exchange that rebuffs HFT is precisely the RIGHT way to go.

Trading physical assets is a waste of time, there are already markets and exchanges for that trading-- the cryptoshpere is what needs an efficient market! The role of clearing should be included *in* the p2p code; while brokers may have legal obligations and regulatory responsibilities, the clearing should be automated from the outset. There is no need for Class A and B brokers-- however there may need to be Level I, and II and III data (to see beyond the main book orders, like dark, block, other brokers, or uniformed market makers). Fees-- they most certainly should be taken from the trading parties, not from the brokers or exchanges! The fees are what repay the brokers and exchange community (those who run nodes) for their risk/expense/time.

Bottom line, I am looking to see time-tested approaches to how we exchange & trade capital, currencies, futures etc, and have those principles overlaid with transparency onto the crypto world. The current need is to create an efficient market, so that BTC (et al) can grow and is not replaced by centralized hybrids of its trustless protocol and ledger.

While there are many great minds here, we must be careful to not re-invent the wheel-- the real innovation will come once the cryptosphere has matured to accommodate (subsume?) old-world capital (fiat). We are waiting on efficiency to build more interesting applications. Let's get this done correctly and swiftly. I don't think gollum is off the mark in terms of his identification of the needs and ideation of the components, but there are some easily available answers that lead to a reordering/restructuring of the proposed moving parts & pieces and create an efficient p2p exchange (where exchange is the place that traders meet).

How can I participate and what is the current status of the p2p exchange development, if anyone wouldn't mind helping me understand better? I am intending to write my white paper on this subject this spring (while in Bali!), and am looking to develop it and bring it to the community. I would as happily share it with one team as build my own team. All thoughts are welcome.

Cheers,
Stormy

[gollum]

This is my belief of how a p2p-exchange can be built, after 2 years of experience with bitcoin, mtgox and all speculators and scammers...

Requirements
It must be 100% open source
Early adaptors must not be rewarded
The dev team should not be greedy, our reward will be fame, not money or coins
Assets and Exchange as two separate projects

Asset Coin
We need to create a new alt-coin for the sake of a public ledger of assets, "AssetCoin"
This coin will use Proof-of-Stake instead of Proof-of-Work to save energy.
The inflation must be high to prevent hoarding, Each contract (coin) should never cost more than 1 cent.
Instead an empty contract can be signed by an issuer with an IOU of an asset, for example BTC-E issues 1 BTC per contract.
The domain assetcoin.org is not free, so we should call it something else.

P2P-exchange
The exchange must be created totally separate from the "AssetCoin", this exchange will run on torrent-data and distributed computing.
Anyone can participate to run an exchange node for a certain exchange, each exchange is totally separate from other exchanges.
All nodes will equally share the transaction fees.
Exchange fees are paid with a certain AssetCoin, for example an IOU of USD issued by Western Union.

As a client you could for example by a USD-IOU on the street and begin to trade on the p2p-exchange and buy GOLD-IOU.
Your assetcoins will always have an intrinsic value, the value is guaranteed by the issuer.

[nwbitcoin]

This is my belief of how a p2p-exchange can be built, after 2 years of experience with bitcoin, mtgox and all speculators and scammers...

Requirements
It must be 100% open source
Early adaptors must not be rewarded
The dev team should not be greedy, our reward will be fame, not money or coins
Assets and Exchange as two separate projects

Asset Coin
We need to create a new alt-coin for the sake of a public ledger of assets, "AssetCoin"
This coin will use Proof-of-Stake instead of Proof-of-Work to save energy.
The inflation must be high to prevent hoarding, Each contract (coin) should never cost more than 1 cent.
Instead an empty contract can be signed by an issuer with an IOU of an asset, for example BTC-E issues 1 BTC per contract.
The domain assetcoin.org is not free, so we should call it something else.

P2P-exchange
The exchange must be created totally separate from the "AssetCoin", this exchange will run on torrent-data and distributed computing.
Anyone can participate to run an exchange node for a certain exchange, each exchange is totally separate from other exchanges.
All nodes will equally share the transaction fees.
Exchange fees are paid with a certain AssetCoin, for example an IOU of USD issued by Western Union.

As a client you could for example by a USD-IOU on the street and begin to trade on the p2p-exchange and buy GOLD-IOU.
Your assetcoins will always have an intrinsic value, the value is guaranteed by the issuer.

Why not cut out the crypto currency and use mastercard? ;-)

Early adopters need a reason to use it, and if getting rich is that reason, then you must accept that. The alternative is that nobody is going to start using your idea, and it will never take off!

The idea that an assetcoin will always have an intrinsic value is too expensive for words - that is what countries with central banks are able to offer - nobody else is big enough!

Can I be the first to say it will never work? ;-)

[gollum]

This is my belief of how a p2p-exchange can be built, after 2 years of experience with bitcoin, mtgox and all speculators and scammers...

Requirements
It must be 100% open source
Early adaptors must not be rewarded
The dev team should not be greedy, our reward will be fame, not money or coins
Assets and Exchange as two separate projects

Asset Coin
We need to create a new alt-coin for the sake of a public ledger of assets, "AssetCoin"
This coin will use Proof-of-Stake instead of Proof-of-Work to save energy.
The inflation must be high to prevent hoarding, Each contract (coin) should never cost more than 1 cent.
Instead an empty contract can be signed by an issuer with an IOU of an asset, for example BTC-E issues 1 BTC per contract.
The domain assetcoin.org is not free, so we should call it something else.

P2P-exchange
The exchange must be created totally separate from the "AssetCoin", this exchange will run on torrent-data and distributed computing.
Anyone can participate to run an exchange node for a certain exchange, each exchange is totally separate from other exchanges.
All nodes will equally share the transaction fees.
Exchange fees are paid with a certain AssetCoin, for example an IOU of USD issued by Western Union.

As a client you could for example by a USD-IOU on the street and begin to trade on the p2p-exchange and buy GOLD-IOU.
Your assetcoins will always have an intrinsic value, the value is guaranteed by the issuer.

Why not cut out the crypto currency and use mastercard? ;-)

Early adopters need a reason to use it, and if getting rich is that reason, then you must accept that. The alternative is that nobody is going to start using your idea, and it will never take off!

The idea that an assetcoin will always have an intrinsic value is too expensive for words - that is what countries with central banks are able to offer - nobody else is big enough!

Can I be the first to say it will never work? ;-)

I'm not in it for the money so I don't care if it takes off or not.

I think you totally have misunderstood my proposal for an Asset backed coin, so I repeat:

An asset backed coin is actually not a coin but a contract, a digital contract signed by the issuer promising a certain asset or service.
The issuer can be exactly anyone, you, your mom, your friend, a bank, a corporation or a government.
-You could issue these contracts to borrow money from your friends to buy a car, and when you want to pay back they send your issued contracts back so you can terminate them.
-A local community could use this contracts to issue a local currency, just like BerkShares. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BerkShares
-A mint could issue contracts backed by gold and promise to physically deliver the gold on request.
-A bank could issue contracts backed by dollars for usage in e-commerce, and take interest on the contracts (the intrinsic value of the contract decreases with X% per year)

Once the contract is issued it can be transferred and stored just like bitcoin.
It is possible that some contracts will default (become worthless), but that's life - it's full of risks and you have to judge the risk of your counter parties.
Getting rid of counter party risk is a nice utopia, but in the real world we have to deal with real people.

I prefer to hold IOUs with 100% intrinsic value where some of them might default over time, rather than buying a crypto currency with 0% intrinsic value.

[Rassah]

There's also the Mycelium Local Trader route *hint hint nudge nudge OhIWorkForThemNow...  *