Is taxation theft?

[Zodiaclo]

Governments don't need taxes to run. What they need is support, and some of it in the form of money. Where can they get money? Just like all the rest of us: Advertise a benefit; offer the benefit for sale; sell the benefit.

If government did it this way, we could vote for the government that we wanted, simply by how much of their products and services we purchased... and all of it with no taxes.

The "No State Project:"
http://marcstevens.net/
https://www.facebook.com/nostateproject/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCm_TxV6Zow

Good point.

Thank you.


TheTinyDot
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/H6b70TUbdfs/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEXCPYBEIoBSFryq4qpAwkIARUAAIhCGAE=&rs=AOn4CLBV0IekyrhKL9dZzb6dXe7IVouLrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

The Tiny Dot video is very persuasive. Thanks for sharing!

[1713534837]

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[1713534837]

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[yogg]

Yeah, it's an organized mafia really.
Hopefully it'll come to an end and we'll be able to build whatever political system we want soon.

[Gegege27]

No taxation is one of the reason why the economy of our country going up

[Encrypt01]

I don't think so. Governments need money to provide and maintain basic amenities such as roads, water, electricity but when the government takes tax and don't perform or underperform, then that's theft. I don't like the word corruption, I prefer theft.

[Elwar]

I don't think so. Governments need money to provide and maintain basic amenities such as roads, water, electricity but when the government takes tax and don't perform or underperform, then that's theft. I don't like the word corruption, I prefer theft.

What tyrannical shithole do you live in where you get your water and electricity through the government?

Let me guess, your taxes pay for garbage service too?

lol

Reminds me of someone who asked "without taxes, how would the government provide basic services like the dentist?"

[ChocolateMuscles]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I agree. The video explains it all. I wish they could run it on the National TV at prime time. Just for a change

[Elwar]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I agree. The video explains it all. I wish they could run it on the National TV at prime time. Just for a change

Ron Paul was on National TV at prime time speaking truth to power and the spin was that "he's crazy, don't listen to him".

Do not underestimate the ability of the propaganda machine to cover the truth, even if it is broadcast briefly on their networks.

[BADecker]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I agree. The video explains it all. I wish they could run it on the National TV at prime time. Just for a change

Ron Paul was on National TV at prime time speaking truth to power and the spin was that "he's crazy, don't listen to him".

Do not underestimate the ability of the propaganda machine to cover the truth, even if it is broadcast briefly on their networks.

I believe that Ron Paul is quite sane. The thing he is doing is promoting civil law, because he realizes that common law and jury nullification is essentially out of reach. In other words, if 10% to 20% of the people understood how they can nullify any government law through jury nullification, Ron Paul might throw out his whole idea of civil law, and might go for common law.

As it is, probably less that 1% of people who are interested in correcting government, have any idea at all the they can do it through jury nullification. Besides, with how wildly "unsane" some people have gotten right now, would we even want them on a jury? They just might make things worse.

So, Ron Paul is doing the only thing that makes sense. He is promoting the old standards of civil law... civil law which still has some shreds of logic left within it.

I can't see how he couldn't know about jury nullification, and how it could turn the country around if used properly.

[BADecker]

Taxation is always theft but there aren't cheap private security agencies that be competitor to countries, to make my safe against other countries and bandits.

The other side of that is, most countries have enough troubles of their own that they wouldn't attack without having been attacked first.

The only reason why other nations might be prompted to fight the U.S. is, the U.S. has a military presence in over 100 foreign nations. Other countries are scared of the U.S.

The founding fathers of the USA wanted the U.S. to stay out of the affairs of other nations. We don't have to be there. We could live our lives apart from them, over here. And if our intelligence community reported their military build-up, advertising would get us to donate to our military defenses. We don't need taxation. Taxation is what makes our "leaders" think they have the right and ability to be world conquerors.

[Sithara007]

The problem with taxation is that it disproportionately affects the middle-class people. The rich can always purchase the passports of countries such as Antigua, Dominica and St.Kitts and avoid paying any income tax. People like you and me, who don't have the means to purchase a second passport are going to suffer.

[CordandAN]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I agree. The video explains it all. I wish they could run it on the National TV at prime time. Just for a change

Ron Paul was on National TV at prime time speaking truth to power and the spin was that "he's crazy, don't listen to him".

Do not underestimate the ability of the propaganda machine to cover the truth, even if it is broadcast briefly on their networks.

You're right. The propaganda machine is too powerful so it's too difficult to beat.

[Elwar]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I agree. The video explains it all. I wish they could run it on the National TV at prime time. Just for a change

Ron Paul was on National TV at prime time speaking truth to power and the spin was that "he's crazy, don't listen to him".

Do not underestimate the ability of the propaganda machine to cover the truth, even if it is broadcast briefly on their networks.

You're right. The propaganda machine is too powerful so it's too difficult to beat.

You don't have to attack it head on.

For decades the push by those that are enlightened was to end the Fed.

But Bitcoin offered us an alternative approach. Instead of ending the Fed, create an alternative path for people to choose instead of Federal Reserve Notes.

Same with taxation. Don't work on ending taxes in tyrannical states. Work on creating alternative paths for those that get it. Something like seasteading.

[Jemroe01]

Taxation is never a theft. With regards to any laws and policies together with the other issues of ecomic progress,  taxation is basically one of the helping path of the society  to cover the poor status of the community and uplift  each of the aspects of the local and national level.

[BossRoss89]

The problem with taxation is that it disproportionately affects the middle-class people. The rich can always purchase the passports of countries such as Antigua, Dominica and St.Kitts and avoid paying any income tax. People like you and me, who don't have the means to purchase a second passport are going to suffer.

That is why middle-class people have always felt they're like losers. 

[BADecker]

You're right. The propaganda machine is too powerful so it's too difficult to beat.

You don't have to attack it head on.

For decades the push by those that are enlightened was to end the Fed.

But Bitcoin offered us an alternative approach. Instead of ending the Fed, create an alternative path for people to choose instead of Federal Reserve Notes.

Same with taxation. Don't work on ending taxes in tyrannical states. Work on creating alternative paths for those that get it. Something like seasteading.

I think seasteading should be a great option for several reasons. I never quite thought about it like just now though. You could literally have no taxes. I mean, the people that are working on building these communities on the water will pay for everything, of course. It's not cheap, but they won't have to deal with "supporting" a huge government and population of lazy poor people with their money. You could earn money, buy and sell and not have to answer to an IRS. I'm sure they'd have to pay some fees to maintain the platforms, etc., but I'm sure that wouldn't even come close to comparing to the amount of taxes they'd pay in the US, for example. It certainly wouldn't be a percentage of what they earn, at least.

Whenever you have to do extra to protect yourself, you are being taxed in one way or another. In seasteading, protecting yourself from a rogue 100 foot wave might be taxing.

[BossRoss89]

Look at it this way, theft ("A") is illegal ("C"), whereas taxation ("B") is legal ("-C"), right? If A=C and B=C, then A=B, right? But in our example A=C, but B=-C, so they cannot be equal. Therefore, in terms of "linear logic," "taxation" ≠ "theft," IMHO.

[BADecker]

Look at it this way, theft ("A") is illegal ("C"), whereas taxation ("B") is legal ("-C"), right? If A=C and B=C, then A=B, right? But in our example A=C, but B=-C, so they cannot be equal. Therefore, in terms of "linear logic," "taxation" ≠ "theft," IMHO.

Legal and illegal pertain to laws. Aren't we supposed to be equal in America. Declaration of Independence, paragraph 2:

... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ...

So, who is right, since we are all created equal? If some other jokers make taxes legal, even though theft is illegal, but I make a law that taxes are illegal just like theft, why is my law not equal to theirs?

Actually, anybody who gets down to the basics of it all, and properly proclaims his law and the upholding of it, doesn't owe any taxes. Taxes will not be taken from him. How to do this?

Stop contracting with government in the W-4 and other docs.
Require to face your accuse in court as permitted by law:
    THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is your accuser on income tax indictments.
    Your accuser can't take the oath and get on the stand and testify.
    No case.
Force the man or woman bringing an accusation against you to show the contract or the injury. If you signed, then pay. If you did injury, then repay. Otherwise you don't owe.

Are you part of the laws of the U.S. government? How did you get that way? Let's see the contract you signed. Why are they calling you a citizen without naturalization? Was it your idea that you would be a citizen because you were born on a certain chunk of land?

The United States makes it easy to not pay taxes, legally. Other countries might not make it so easy. But with a bit of work, you can get out of taxes everywhere.

BTW, this makes taxation to not be theft. Rather, it makes it to be voluntary ignorance of the law.

[Wizardbizari]

Look at it this way, theft ("A") is illegal ("C"), whereas taxation ("B") is legal ("-C"), right? If A=C and B=C, then A=B, right? But in our example A=C, but B=-C, so they cannot be equal. Therefore, in terms of "linear logic," "taxation" ≠ "theft," IMHO.

Legal and illegal pertain to laws. Aren't we supposed to be equal in America. Declaration of Independence, paragraph 2:

... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ...

So, who is right, since we are all created equal? If some other jokers make taxes legal, even though theft is illegal, but I make a law that taxes are illegal just like theft, why is my law not equal to theirs?

Actually, anybody who gets down to the basics of it all, and properly proclaims his law and the upholding of it, doesn't owe any taxes. Taxes will not be taken from him. How to do this?

Stop contracting with government in the W-4 and other docs.
Require to face your accuse in court as permitted by law:
    THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is your accuser on income tax indictments.
    Your accuser can't take the oath and get on the stand and testify.
    No case.
Force the man or woman bringing an accusation against you to show the contract or the injury. If you signed, then pay. If you did injury, then repay. Otherwise you don't owe.

Are you part of the laws of the U.S. government? How did you get that way? Let's see the contract you signed. Why are they calling you a citizen without naturalization? Was it your idea that you would be a citizen because you were born on a certain chunk of land?

The United States makes it easy to not pay taxes, legally. Other countries might not make it so easy. But with a bit of work, you can get out of taxes everywhere.

BTW, this makes taxation to not be theft. Rather, it makes it to be voluntary ignorance of the law.

Just curious, how do you get out of taxes in the US? Legally, I mean, of course.

[BADecker]

Just curious, how do you get out of taxes in the US? Legally, I mean, of course.

Basically, there are two parts to this. The first is your property. The second is voluntarily signing your property over to someone else by agreement. Ever heard the IRS say "voluntary compliance?" The focus is to get you to sign on some line somewhere.

Your labor is your property. You have other kinds of property, as well. What I mean is, if you are just standing there, doing nothing, your labor is yours. If you exercise by lifting weights, your labor is yours. No taxing authority owns any part of it. If you don't want to buy weights to lift, you can find a couple of rocks (or something else) and lift them. Do you owe taxes on such? No, of course not. But it is labor, just like if you had a job.

This brings us to the second part. You have your own labor which is your property, but you can make an agreement to give some of your property to someone else if you want. So, you get a job, and agree with your employer to trade labor for some cash-dollars/credit/money-in-the-bank/whatever. Where in your agreement does it talk about giving some of your labor trade to the IRS in the form of taxes? If it talks about this, and you agree to it by signing employer/employee paperwork, then pay your taxes that you agreed to. If you don't want to sign, but your potential employer won't accept you without it, you have to decide what you want more, the job, or no taxes.

If your employer has no stipulation to pay taxes, but requires that you fill out a Form W-4 for the IRS, fill it out "n-a"-on-all-lines/non-assumpsit/Exempt-on-line-7, and sign it "non-assumpsit" (note that the W-4 may be changed, so this might not apply exactly like this). Understand what you are doing when you do this, before you do it, to know what to do next if your employer or the IRS will not honor your agreement with them but will make trouble for you instead.


The point is, we are a private property country. Your property is yours until you agree to give/trade it to someone else. The IRS needs your agreement (W-4) to give them your property before they have any right to it, because it is your property. This means that you need to look through all your agreements and see if you are turning over your property to them by signing some paperwork along the line.

What about court? If you know your neighbor next door has an extra $100,000 lying around, you can falsely sue him, stating that he owes you $100,000. If you take him to court, and he doesn't fight you properly, you just might be able to get the $100,000 of him, for nothing. But if you lose, you could wind up owing him the $100,000 along with damages for a false claim.

This is exactly what the IRS does to people who don't make an agreement with them to give them some of their property. They are a protection racket, like the Mafia used to be in the Al Capone days. But, they are smarter than Al. They use the courts. They are very clever in court. And the court is on their side... first by getting you to think that you need an attorney, which is the start of your court downfall right there.

Study the stuff at https://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos. There is better info in some other places, but when you get the info from this site, you are getting it in ways that will help you get an understanding of it. Using simple mechanics - simply saying the right words - doesn't work in court, generally. You need to learn what you are doing and why. There is a lot to learn, but the whole picture is quite simple - private property. Get the idea into your head first, that your labor and your money is you private property until you sign it over to someone else.

[Elwar]

Look at it this way, theft ("A") is illegal ("C"), whereas taxation ("B") is legal ("-C"), right? If A=C and B=C, then A=B, right? But in our example A=C, but B=-C, so they cannot be equal. Therefore, in terms of "linear logic," "taxation" ≠ "theft," IMHO.

Just like when the US bombs women and children in Iraq it's not murder because it's legal.