Is taxation theft?

[mainpmf]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah here we are.

Do you even know what fair means?

If I want you to give me your computer for 50 cents, you won't do it because that's not fair right?
But if now I take out a gun, put it on your head and ask again, you'll accept it.

Is it fair?
Cause that's how things work...

I don't believe an employment agreement involves a gun.

That's where you're wrong.
What's the difference between me holding a gun on the front of your child, and me telling you that if you don't accept my conditions your child will die of hunger?
Those are just different level of threat.

If you believe that companies respect the laws, you never worked a basic job ever before.

Ahahahahah

Factories don't close because they "have to". They close because the owners know they can pay even less elsewhere that's all.
Don't put the blame on unions and workers for not wanting to work for nothing!

You say you agree 100% with the fact that workers should be able to negociate. And WTF are unions if not workers who negociate? That's the fucking definition of a union! What you say doesn't make any sense!

Yes.

So they will move elsewhere ,and the idiots in that country will remain without a job, they will need welfare, and that will be paid by other idiots.

A very good solution.

So we got only two solutions?
Damn, this binary world in which you live in must be terrible...

Why not just let employers stay, they will come more, and they will compete for workers. Not the worker competes for employer. That is how prices go up, wages go up.

But leftists like you cant understand that.

Lol.
I just invite you to read about economical theories about low growth.

I'll sum it up for you: IT DOESN'T WORK
You can't have this situation of equilibrium between job offers and number of people looking for a job.
It doesn't exist by the way, show me a country where this exists.

The question isn't to be a leftist or a rightist.
The question is to understand that if you let people with money intall a "free" system, they'll just create a system in which money brings more money, widering the gap between poors and riches and so making negotiations even more unfair.

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[mainpmf]

Ahahahahah

Factories don't close because they "have to". They close because the owners know they can pay even less elsewhere that's all.
Don't put the blame on unions and workers for not wanting to work for nothing!

You say you agree 100% with the fact that workers should be able to negociate. And WTF are unions if not workers who negociate? That's the fucking definition of a union! What you say doesn't make any sense!

No. They are not shifting their factories elsewhere. They are simply closing down their factories, and pulling out of business. I would blame the unions, because they even defend the employees who went AWOL for months, and those who misbehave with their coworkers.

What's the difference?
They just put business in somewhere even poorer to cut costs and pay even less wages.

The result of their greed is the destruction of our current world.

[RealBitcoin]

That's where you're wrong.
What's the difference between me holding a gun on the front of your child, and me telling you that if you don't accept my conditions your child will die of hunger?
Those are just different level of threat.

If you believe that companies respect the laws, you never worked a basic job ever before.

I am sorry but you are too stupid to understand the difference between an active threat, and a consequence of other peoples actions.


1) If you are robbed on the street for 100$ that is theft.

2) If your salary is decreased by 100$, that is not theft.


In example 1 you dont have a choice, and the fault is on the attacker.

In example 2 you have a choice, you can quit and find another job. Improve skills, make money by other means. The fault is on you, because it's your employment contract, that you have voluntarly agreed to.


I wont even respond to your other posts. If you cant wrap your head around this simple concept of active and passive problems, then I cant talk with you anymore.

[mainpmf]

That's where you're wrong.
What's the difference between me holding a gun on the front of your child, and me telling you that if you don't accept my conditions your child will die of hunger?
Those are just different level of threat.

If you believe that companies respect the laws, you never worked a basic job ever before.

-bullshit-

Seems like you didn't understand. Here are even simpler words:

you work for company
you have children
company know economic situation is not good
company knows even if you're good you can't find a new job before at least 1 month or 2 of search
company knows you can't allow that
company tells you "hey, you work 5 hours more this week without being paid"
you say yes because you have no choice

Simple enough for you?

[dream4]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

[pixie85]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

Wars are paid for by the Jews. Same Jews that forged documents about Saddam and his nuclear weapons and destroyed WTC.

[BADecker]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

Wars are paid for by the Jews. Same Jews that forged documents about Saddam and his nuclear weapons and destroyed WTC.

Jews who direct where our tax money goes.   

[RealBitcoin]

Seems like you didn't understand. Here are even simpler words:

you work for company
you have children
company know economic situation is not good
company knows even if you're good you can't find a new job before at least 1 month or 2 of search
company knows you can't allow that
company tells you "hey, you work 5 hours more this week without being paid"
you say yes because you have no choice

Simple enough for you?

And you think that is somehow your fault, or the employers fault. If you said that the economy is bad, and make you work more, that is just how things are.

A business usually doesnt want to move, so instead of bankruptcy, they try to save themselves, and your job. Most people dont get lucky and get fired when the economy is bad, so consider that as a privilege that you can still keep your job. Otherwise just find a better one if you dont like it.

But do you really believe that the gov gives a shit about you? When they increase the taxes and introduce regulations that will guaranteed make jobs go away. Do you think they are the angels here?

Because the job provider at least pays you. But the gov, only steals from you.

[Sithara007]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

That is correct. The Iraq invasion alone cost around $2 trillion for the American treasury. And this is not the final bill. The US is still spending huge amounts in Iraq, to support its puppet regime. Another example is the F-35 program, which is expected to cost another $2 trillion.

[pixie85]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

That is correct. The Iraq invasion alone cost around $2 trillion for the American treasury. And this is not the final bill. The US is still spending huge amounts in Iraq, to support its puppet regime. Another example is the F-35 program, which is expected to cost another $2 trillion.

They also stole a lot from iraq. Saddam's vault is now being put to use to make new weapons for the United States. Freedom and democracy!

[BADecker]

Listen to how Trump wants to cut taxes, big time. Listen to the video in the bottom article at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1135598.msg17607966#msg17607966.

[mainpmf]

Seems like you didn't understand. Here are even simpler words:

you work for company
you have children
company know economic situation is not good
company knows even if you're good you can't find a new job before at least 1 month or 2 of search
company knows you can't allow that
company tells you "hey, you work 5 hours more this week without being paid"
you say yes because you have no choice

Simple enough for you?

And you think that is somehow your fault, or the employers fault.

Who said that? I never said that! You're just putting words in my mouth because you don't even read me!
I'm a politically and sociologically left person, that means I believe in the incredible power of SYSTEMS over INDIVIDUALS. That's the basic difference between left and right.

I can't blame the shareholders alone, that would be dumb, that would be exactly the opposite of my ideologies.
I say they have a share of responsibility that's all...

If you said that the economy is bad, and make you work more, that is just how things are.

Important point.
That's how things ARE. I agree.
Does that mean that's how things should be? No.
Does that mean that's the only way things can be? No.

A business usually doesnt want to move, so instead of bankruptcy, they try to save themselves, and your job.

No. The vast majority of companies don't move for survival but for more profits that's all.
Amazon, Apple, car factories etc... They all moved for more profits, not because they were threatened in any way.

Most people dont get lucky and get fired when the economy is bad, so consider that as a privilege that you can still keep your job.

Wrong conception of society and economy.
What you're saying is "be happy to at least have the luck of serving the economy".
What I want the world to become is "be happy to have an economy serving society".
Doesn't seem dumb to me.

Otherwise just find a better one if you dont like it.

I got no problem. I was from a rather wealthy family, they paid me great studies and I'll never know unemployment or job problems.
But that doesn't mean I can't see how difficult it can be for someone born in a poor family.

But do you really believe that the gov gives a shit about you? When they increase the taxes and introduce regulations that will guaranteed make jobs go away. Do you think they are the angels here?

That's at least an interesting point.
Government should care about you, in fact they should care only about the people, not about the business (though both are linked, difficult to make people happy without business xD)
Why don't they do that?

Maybe because we have no power on them. We have no control on our government, we can't do shit even if they rape us.

Imagine we have control on government. Then it's the people serving the people... That would mean government WOULD care about us because WE are the government.

That's not what the current world is.
Does that mean it can't change? No.

Because the job provider at least pays you. But the gov, only steals from you.

Same as above. They steal you because they're corrupted asshole. A real government could pay you too. In a better and more efficient way than a private company. If you don't believe me just look at health industry (industry, not talking about welfare here) in France compared to the one in USA.

[DrPepperJC]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

That is correct. The Iraq invasion alone cost around $2 trillion for the American treasury. And this is not the final bill. The US is still spending huge amounts in Iraq, to support its puppet regime. Another example is the F-35 program, which is expected to cost another $2 trillion.

Is it possible to put the security of the country? Besides, the world is ruled by oil tycoons, and Iraq allows you to control this market. We can assume that money is not consumption, but investment. Do you agree?

[Mitcsell]

Taxation has benefited us, our economy our surroundings and our country. The worst thing that taxation has made is a corrupt politician. Corrupt politicians especially tax collector and tax expert are the one who polluted the name of tax. But, for me I am agree with the purpose of tax I really think that we really need it in our country.

The greed has polluted the name of tax.
I agree that some taxes are essential, but adding taxes on top of existing taxes in hope that people can take it is theft and slavery. Government loans money and forces citizens to pay it back, bringing them to the edge of poverty. People should finally understand that they aren't responsible for their politician's mistakes. Iceland did it right and refused to join the EU and pay back their forced loans.

Loans based on the fact that people acquire property which is not earned. As a result, they fall into slavery and condemn themselves to poverty. I think what you first need to balance their income and needs.

[Sithara007]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

That is correct. The Iraq invasion alone cost around $2 trillion for the American treasury. And this is not the final bill. The US is still spending huge amounts in Iraq, to support its puppet regime. Another example is the F-35 program, which is expected to cost another $2 trillion.

They also stole a lot from iraq. Saddam's vault is now being put to use to make new weapons for the United States. Freedom and democracy!

Most of the oil and gas fields in Iraq are now owned by the American corporations. Actually, this was one of the main reasons why the US invaded Iraq in the first place. But the US government miscalculated the (financial / human) cost of such an invasion.

[Mitcsell]

ofc it is. how do you think our governments otherwise could run all those wars without our support.

That is correct. The Iraq invasion alone cost around $2 trillion for the American treasury. And this is not the final bill. The US is still spending huge amounts in Iraq, to support its puppet regime. Another example is the F-35 program, which is expected to cost another $2 trillion.

They also stole a lot from iraq. Saddam's vault is now being put to use to make new weapons for the United States. Freedom and democracy!

Most of the oil and gas fields in Iraq are now owned by the American corporations. Actually, this was one of the main reasons why the US invaded Iraq in the first place. But the US government miscalculated the (financial / human) cost of such an invasion.

Why do you think that America is wrong? Through Iraq you can act on Iran, Syria, Libya and many more countries of the region. This is an opportunity to influence oil prices, perhaps in the future to weaken Russia's positions in the gas market.

[RealBitcoin]

I'm a politically and sociologically left person, that means I believe in the incredible power of SYSTEMS over INDIVIDUALS. That's the basic difference between left and right.

I knew you were a leftist from the first reply you had made to my posts.

Leftists get very triggered from certain taboo topics 

And since you are a leftist, you are probably blaming the employer, ah that dirty burgeoise employer, how dare he pays his employee a fair wage. He should instead be paid a high minimum wage at the expense of firing the other people to gather the money for it (because the money doesnt grow out of nothing), so that the fired employees can live on the street.

Does that mean that's the only way things can be? No.

Communism/Socialism had killed 100 million people. What do you want?

But that doesn't mean I can't see how difficult it can be for someone born in a poor family.

It's not your job to save them. You should just promote Bitcoin, Bitcoin will save poor people from inflation.

Imagine we have control on government. Then it's the people serving the people... That would mean government WOULD care about us because WE are the government.

Then you would do the same evil things as they are doing now.

As you said, you dont blame individuals but the system. So if you are part of the system, you wont be "you" anymore, but you will work for the system, and do exactly what those that are now in the system are doing.

[bryant.coleman]

Why do you think that America is wrong? Through Iraq you can act on Iran, Syria, Libya and many more countries of the region. This is an opportunity to influence oil prices, perhaps in the future to weaken Russia's positions in the gas market.

You are wrong about the first part. Saddam Hussein was anti-Iran, but the new Iraqi regime (mostly Shiite Arab) is heavily pro-Iran. Politically, the US is not going to exert any pressure on Iran or Syria through the Iraqi government.

And now coming to the gas supplies. Iran is a major gas supplier, not Iraq. If a pipeline is constructed through Iraq-Turkey to Europe, then Iran will be the one benefiting out of it. Qatar is too far away to benefit directly from this project. 

[mainpmf]

I'm a politically and sociologically left person, that means I believe in the incredible power of SYSTEMS over INDIVIDUALS. That's the basic difference between left and right.

I knew you were a leftist from the first reply you had made to my posts.

Leftists get very triggered from certain taboo topics 

And since you are a leftist, you are probably blaming the employer, ah that dirty burgeoise employer, how dare he pays his employee a fair wage. He should instead be paid a high minimum wage at the expense of firing the other people to gather the money for it (because the money doesnt grow out of nothing), so that the fired employees can live on the street.

Sigh
Please refer to the answer you quoted...
You don't even read me I don't know why I answer you...
What is the taboo topic? Where did I blame the "dirty burgeoise employer"?

You don't even know what leftist means you just throw that as an insult while it's just an economical an sociological vision...
You put words in my mouth without even reading what I write...

Does that mean that's the only way things can be? No.

Communism/Socialism had killed 100 million people. What do you want?

That is just so...
Do you even want to discuss or are you here for trolling? If you want to discuss please start doing so. That's not even the begining of an argument. I'll rest with my previous answer which is still perfectly valid...

But that doesn't mean I can't see how difficult it can be for someone born in a poor family.

It's not your job to save them. You should just promote Bitcoin, Bitcoin will save poor people from inflation.

Oh great. I guess that's not my duty as a human being to help other human beings glad to know that 

And even from a very selfish perspective you should help them, if not for you for your children and grand children:
Inequality leads to poverty
Poverty leads to inequality of powers
Inequality of powers leads to internal trouble
Internal trouble leads to war. Civil or not.

Just a friendly reminder that YOU are taking advantage of the situation at the expense of your children.

Imagine we have control on government. Then it's the people serving the people... That would mean government WOULD care about us because WE are the government.

Then you would do the same evil things as they are doing now.

As you said, you dont blame individuals but the system. So if you are part of the system, you wont be "you" anymore, but you will work for the system, and do exactly what those that are now in the system are doing.

Ah so we finally something interesting here! First argument you give in the whole post but that's an itneresting one!

You're perfectly right in saying I blame the system and not individuals, showing that you're just trolling at the begining of the post. Then why would it be different indeed? Well the fact is that giving power to one individual will change the system, but the change will be very small and hence the system will be able to bend the individual to its necessities. But now imagine you give the power to MILIONS OF INDIVIDUALS. Could the sytem bend the will of all of them? I don't think so.

That's what is called "changing the system". It's when you outweight the current system power by providing a more important power on another side. You can do that either by giving ABSOLUTE power to one individual (that's the main idea of a dictatorship, which wasn't seen as a bad thing for Greeks and Romans for example) or to give a small power to all individuals.

[RealBitcoin]

I knew you were a leftist from the first reply you had made to my posts.

Leftists get very triggered from certain taboo topics 

And since you are a leftist, you are probably blaming the employer, ah that dirty burgeoise employer, how dare he pays his employee a fair wage. He should instead be paid a high minimum wage at the expense of firing the other people to gather the money for it (because the money doesnt grow out of nothing), so that the fired employees can live on the street.

Ah damnit stop playing around here, you know that I havent said such things, It was a satire making fun of leftist beliefs. It wasnt even referring to you, but rather your beliefs.

You are a leftist who doesnt have a problem with wealth redistribution, but I do. That is the point that I am trying to make.

I wont even address the other posts, because you are making stuff up

Ah so we finally something interesting here! First argument you give in the whole post but that's an itneresting one!

You're perfectly right in saying I blame the system and not individuals, showing that you're just trolling at the begining of the post. Then why would it be different indeed? Well the fact is that giving power to one individual will change the system, but the change will be very small and hence the system will be able to bend the individual to its necessities. But now imagine you give the power to MILIONS OF INDIVIDUALS. Could the sytem bend the will of all of them? I don't think so.

That's what is called "changing the system". It's when you outweight the current system power by providing a more important power on another side. You can do that either by giving ABSOLUTE power to one individual (that's the main idea of a dictatorship, which wasn't seen as a bad thing for Greeks and Romans for example) or to give a small power to all individuals.

So you are in favor of direct democracy too? Is that the point you are trying to make.

Because believe me it wont work out. Most people will vote left, and that would mean no private property and everyone will live on welfare, and nobody will produce, until it all collapses, and endless misery will come.

Communism has been tried many times, hundreds of millions of people died, it's a very evil system. You should know this.