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Author Topic: Antminer L3 - 250mh - 400watt Scrypt miner coming soon  (Read 137397 times)
Longsnowsm (OP)
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January 20, 2017, 05:00:51 AM
Last edit: January 20, 2017, 05:52:49 AM by Longsnowsm
 #261

Well it doesn't look like the L3 likes zpool.ca too much.  Lots of swinging HIGH and then LOW in the hash rate.  I added the d=65536 back to the settings and restarted hoping that might level things out, but it doesn't look like it.  So maybe Crackfoo can chime in here and make some suggestions.  I am going to move these back over to Prohashing for now.  

I saw some comments that the NH rate of return was the same as the earnings seen on PH.  So I might even try that tomorrow.  For now zpool.ca wild swings in hash rate have me questioning the results so I will be waiting to hear from Crackfoo to give this another try.

UPDATE:  Just checked the cooler night time temps where I have the miners.  The power use dropped down to 372 watts at this time.  So power draw may drop some more yet as it is still quite "comfortable" temperature wise.  So power consumptions is really good with this miner.  I would imagine during the summer temps the draw will probably top 400 watts but it looks like the power consumption figures provided for this miner were pretty accurate.
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January 20, 2017, 05:56:40 AM
 #262

Well it doesn't look like the L3 likes zpool.ca too much.  Lots of swinging HIGH and then LOW in the hash rate.  I added the d=65536 back to the settings and restarted hoping that might level things out, but it doesn't look like it.  So maybe Crackfoo can chime in here and make some suggestions.  I am going to move these back over to Prohashing for now.  

I saw some comments that the NH rate of return was the same as the earnings seen on PH.  So I might even try that tomorrow.  For now zpool.ca wild swings in hash rate have me questioning the results so I will be waiting to hear from Crackfoo to give this another try.

UPDATE:  Just checked the cooler night time temps where I have the miners.  The power use dropped down to 372 watts at this time.  So power draw may drop some more yet as it is still quite "comfortable" temperature wise.  So power consumptions is really good with this miner.  I would imagine during the summer temps the draw will probably top 400 watts but it looks like the power consumption figures provided for this miner were pretty accurate.

Can you speak about the "felt" quality of this miner ? like are the parts seems to be of high quality & such ? power draw stable, mining stable ? I know it's bitmain so they're known to do good miners, but just to get an idea.
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January 20, 2017, 06:28:16 AM
 #263

So seems like my deal will go through with them, but they wont be able to send out my shipment until the first week of feb. As soon as I have the final numbers per unit and the freight shipping cost from them ill open up another thread for a group buy-in. It will most likely be conducted in a similar fashion to my USB scrypt stick pre order (except you wont have to wait months for these Wink. All BTC will be pooled in a public address that I will send directly to bitmain, they'll pallet drop ship all the units to me in NY, and ill simply slap a shipment label on them and send them out to you guys.

I know some of you guys have PMed me already, but ill start putting a serious list together with the number of units you guys are interested in so if you haven't already shoot me a PM with the number you want (figure around $1600 each unit).

Project Apollo: A Pod Miner Designed for the Home https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4974036
FutureBit Moonlander 2 USB Scrypt Stick Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2125643.0
LTC:LX5vpxrQE4eLRLPobKwZhw2comkKFCh3p4 - BTC:14w9Lea6kdVzspJk8TQRe7qSYu9LhzJJsh
Longsnowsm (OP)
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January 20, 2017, 06:39:34 AM
 #264

I wish I could say I am a fan of Bitmain products... But that would be a lie.  Having owned the A4's before jumping into the L3's I can say that the build quality seems to be better on the A4's.  Inno did a good job and appeared to use rugged well made stuff to build their miners.  They are heavy, and ruggedly made.  Even the heat sinks on the boards are massive.  After that experience with the A4 you have an expectation of something similar with the L3 miner, but it isn't built nearly as ruggedly as the A4 sadly.

The L3 it is a small miner in dimensions compared to an S9 or and A4.  It is pretty light weight.  It has the same looking controller board that the other Bitmain products has and it uses the same GUI.  Boot times are also longer like the rest of the Bitmain products.  The A4 boots much faster and starts mining faster than the L3 or other Bitmain products.  The heat sinks on the boards look like the same tiny heat sinks used on the R4 and S9 miners.  

So far I have only tested the L3's on multicoin pools at Prohashing and now for a short while on Zpool.ca.  Overall with the proper settings on Prohashing it seems to be working pretty well.  For some reason the L3 doesn't seem too crazy about Zpool.ca.  Maybe it just needs to run and it will average out between the high and low hash rate swings.  Or it may need some specific settings to get the best performance out of Zpool.ca.  I really just don't like to see 500mhs only mining at 200mhs or less even if it is for a short while.  Of course I love it when it zooms to almost 700mhs, but hey that's how I roll! LOL  Grin

So far it looks like power draw is consistent.  Power use climbs as the ambient temps climb and the fan runs faster.  And as I just reported the power use drops as the ambient temps drop and the fan speeds dropped.  In either case even  when the fan is running at higher speeds it does not ever really get "loud".  I would say noise from the miner is on par with a GPU rig.  So not loud at all really.  

At this point I have to say this miner hits it's target.  It hashes pretty close to advertised rates, power consumption appears to line up with the advertised consumption figures, it is quieter than I thought it would be, and is small and easy to find space for it.  You could run this miner in your home and not have to worry about crazy loud miners like the S9 or A4.  

My only concern at the moment is Bitmain's horrible track record for reliability.  This miner is doing everything I could have asked for so far in my testing.  I want to try mining on Nicehash, and over on Litecoinpool to compare performance, but so far it has done very well and I am pretty happy with the L3.  

Now<crossing my fingers> hoping that they will hold together and we don't have more Bitmain hardware issues that seem to be plaguing the rest of their product lines.  I saw yet more reported failures out of the box for the latest batches of the R4's just today.  It does not give me any confidence at all when Bitmain is still shipping trash like this.  

So far I love the L3.      
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January 20, 2017, 06:44:48 AM
 #265

So seems like my deal will go through with them, but they wont be able to send out my shipment until the first week of feb. As soon as I have the final numbers per unit and the freight shipping cost from them ill open up another thread for a group buy-in. It will most likely be conducted in a similar fashion to my USB scrypt stick pre order (except you wont have to wait months for these Wink. All BTC will be pooled in a public address that I will send directly to bitmain, they'll pallet drop ship all the units to me in NY, and ill simply slap a shipment label on them and send them out to you guys.

I know some of you guys have PMed me already, but ill start putting a serious list together with the number of units you guys are interested in so if you haven't already shoot me a PM with the number you want (figure around $1600 each unit).

Seems you are quite knowledgeable on those units, have you already calculated ROI with increasing difficulties & stuff and can give us an approximation of the true ROI ? i find it hard to calculate for ASIC based miners, i use this calc : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator, with 1% increased difficulty, but aside if you don't pay for electricity you don't seems to get ROI like ever and even it take 2+ years. So am i doing it wrong or is there some sort of secret to find those device to be profitable, like only doing alt-coin ? I was told this calc may not be accurate either. What do you think ?

I wish I could say I am a fan of Bitmain products... But that would be a lie.  Having owned the A4's before jumping into the L3's I can say that the build quality seems to be better on the A4's.  Inno did a good job and appeared to use rugged well made stuff to build their miners.  They are heavy, and ruggedly made.  Even the heat sinks on the boards are massive.  After that experience with the A4 you have an expectation of something similar with the L3 miner, but it isn't built nearly as ruggedly as the A4 sadly.
< snip >

So far I love the L3.      

Thanks for your review man Smiley
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January 20, 2017, 07:03:03 AM
 #266

So seems like my deal will go through with them, but they wont be able to send out my shipment until the first week of feb. As soon as I have the final numbers per unit and the freight shipping cost from them ill open up another thread for a group buy-in. It will most likely be conducted in a similar fashion to my USB scrypt stick pre order (except you wont have to wait months for these Wink. All BTC will be pooled in a public address that I will send directly to bitmain, they'll pallet drop ship all the units to me in NY, and ill simply slap a shipment label on them and send them out to you guys.

I know some of you guys have PMed me already, but ill start putting a serious list together with the number of units you guys are interested in so if you haven't already shoot me a PM with the number you want (figure around $1600 each unit).

Seems you are quite knowledgeable on those units, have you already calculated ROI with increasing difficulties & stuff and can give us an approximation of the true ROI ? i find it hard to calculate for ASIC based miners, i use this calc : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator, with 1% increased difficulty, but aside if you don't pay for electricity you don't seems to get ROI like ever and even it take 2+ years. So am i doing it wrong or is there some sort of secret to find those device to be profitable, like only doing alt-coin ? I was told this calc may not be accurate either. What do you think ?

I wish I could say I am a fan of Bitmain products... But that would be a lie.  Having owned the A4's before jumping into the L3's I can say that the build quality seems to be better on the A4's.  Inno did a good job and appeared to use rugged well made stuff to build their miners.  They are heavy, and ruggedly made.  Even the heat sinks on the boards are massive.  After that experience with the A4 you have an expectation of something similar with the L3 miner, but it isn't built nearly as ruggedly as the A4 sadly.
< snip >

So far I love the L3.      

Thanks for your review man Smiley

the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

~Got this girl in my bed, a roof over my head, i mint a couple coins a week, and thats how i make bread~
~On the 12th day of Hatzvah, OGminer said to me: "compute root of the merkle hash tree!"~
Prohashing  -- Simply the best Multipool!
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January 20, 2017, 07:11:25 AM
 #267


the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.
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January 20, 2017, 09:14:45 AM
 #268


the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

Well a sane person would look at these numbers and just invest in the coins and call it a day... But I have never been accused of being sane so I am covered...

If there is any hope of this playing out in favor of the miner it will be a long game now.  It probably does make more sense to just sink the money into the coins and hold it, but what fun would that be?  Miss out on the daily mining drama?  LOL
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January 20, 2017, 03:35:02 PM
 #269


the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

you cant calculate diff increases really, unless you wanted to just add a static per week number. Theres too many variables and machines being developed that we dont even know when dif is gonna flatline or spike, so IMO, dif is impossible to calculate unless you add a static number per week. add 1-2% every 2 weeks maybe?
that calculator will be the closest you will find, as the rest are normal mining variables impossible to precalculate.


the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

Well a sane person would look at these numbers and just invest in the coins and call it a day... But I have never been accused of being sane so I am covered...

If there is any hope of this playing out in favor of the miner it will be a long game now.  It probably does make more sense to just sink the money into the coins and hold it, but what fun would that be?  Miss out on the daily mining drama?  LOL

yes, most that dont have huge resources or cheap power, i think have been doing that for over a year now, choosing buying coins over ASIC mining ;p 
Lucky you already understand that there's more to it than profit Smiley  its about the EXPERIENCE, about being a PART of it, and of course about Decentralization and network security Smiley

~Got this girl in my bed, a roof over my head, i mint a couple coins a week, and thats how i make bread~
~On the 12th day of Hatzvah, OGminer said to me: "compute root of the merkle hash tree!"~
Prohashing  -- Simply the best Multipool!
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January 20, 2017, 06:27:03 PM
 #270


the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

This calculator does account for difficulty.
http://www.vnbitcoin.org/litecoincalculator.php
m1n1ngP4d4w4n
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January 20, 2017, 06:37:07 PM
 #271


the best ROI calculator will be what Jstefanop posted earlier in the thread, as, as he stated also at the same time, https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  is still using 50LTC as a block reward ;p
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/ltc?HashingPower=250&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=400&CostPerkWh=.01

keep in mind theres alot of variables, but the bottom line IMO is : Mining is a long game now, EXPECT a year+ ROI unless you have "free" power ;p

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

This calculator does account for difficulty.
http://www.vnbitcoin.org/litecoincalculator.php


Thx for the calculator, very useful, well this one show infinite ROI, sadly i think with ASIC as i stated before, it's either you buy it just to have one, but it's lost money, or you can invest half a million $ and make real money lol.
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January 20, 2017, 07:57:59 PM
 #272

So seems like my deal will go through with them, but they wont be able to send out my shipment until the first week of feb. As soon as I have the final numbers per unit and the freight shipping cost from them ill open up another thread for a group buy-in. It will most likely be conducted in a similar fashion to my USB scrypt stick pre order (except you wont have to wait months for these Wink. All BTC will be pooled in a public address that I will send directly to bitmain, they'll pallet drop ship all the units to me in NY, and ill simply slap a shipment label on them and send them out to you guys.

I know some of you guys have PMed me already, but ill start putting a serious list together with the number of units you guys are interested in so if you haven't already shoot me a PM with the number you want (figure around $1600 each unit).

Seems you are quite knowledgeable on those units, have you already calculated ROI with increasing difficulties & stuff and can give us an approximation of the true ROI ? i find it hard to calculate for ASIC based miners, i use this calc : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator, with 1% increased difficulty, but aside if you don't pay for electricity you don't seems to get ROI like ever and even it take 2+ years. So am i doing it wrong or is there some sort of secret to find those device to be profitable, like only doing alt-coin ? I was told this calc may not be accurate either. What do you think ?

Unfortunately I dont have the answer you are looking for, but I have been in the litecoin community since the GPU days, and what I do know is that litecoin has consistently been the most stable and profitable coin in all of crypto currencies. Other altcoins and have come and gone, they go through their spikes and dumps, and litecoin has always stayed in the sidelines returning the same profit day in/out.

Like others have mentioned its definitely the long game with litecoin. Yea you can be more profitable putting your money elsewhere right now, but in the long run I have made more gains with litecoin than any other crypto. The second main reason is im constrained by power capacity (have about 10kw dedicated to mining), and currently the L3 cant be matched by any other form of hardware in terms of $mined/watt, be it asic or GPU.

For example and S9 can put out 19 cents of revenue per month per watt, the most profitable GPU algo (zcash currently) 28 cents per watt, and the L3 is now at 34 cents per watt.

So you can see where the true value of scrypt mining lies...for the home miner that is constrained by power (both capacity and price), it cannot be beat. This is the reason I have always been a proponet of scrypt/litecoin for home miners (and is the reason I started my whole scrypt USB stick project...which I hope to continue with a new version on the current generation of scrypt asics). Of course all this comes with a trade off and thats with a higher upfront cost, which again is not for everyone.

So it again it comes down to your individual needs...are you a huge farm with massive capacity and low electricity price? Go with a Bitcoin miner...do you want quick ROI and high resell value go with GPU algos...are you a home miner with high electricity and want to play the long game? Go with L3. But dont make a decision based on a simple ROI calculator and do your research.

Project Apollo: A Pod Miner Designed for the Home https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4974036
FutureBit Moonlander 2 USB Scrypt Stick Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2125643.0
LTC:LX5vpxrQE4eLRLPobKwZhw2comkKFCh3p4 - BTC:14w9Lea6kdVzspJk8TQRe7qSYu9LhzJJsh
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January 20, 2017, 08:53:36 PM
 #273


Unfortunately I dont have the answer you are looking for, but I have been in the litecoin community since the GPU days, and what I do know is that litecoin has consistently been the most stable and profitable coin in all of crypto currencies. Other altcoins and have come and gone, they go through their spikes and dumps, and litecoin has always stayed in the sidelines returning the same profit day in/out.

Like others have mentioned its definitely the long game with litecoin. Yea you can be more profitable putting your money elsewhere right now, but in the long run I have made more gains with litecoin than any other crypto. The second main reason is im constrained by power capacity (have about 10kw dedicated to mining), and currently the L3 cant be matched by any other form of hardware in terms of $mined/watt, be it asic or GPU.

For example and S9 can put out 19 cents of revenue per month per watt, the most profitable GPU algo (zcash currently) 28 cents per watt, and the L3 is now at 34 cents per watt.

So you can see where the true value of scrypt mining lies...for the home miner that is constrained by power (both capacity and price), it cannot be beat. This is the reason I have always been a proponet of scrypt/litecoin for home miners (and is the reason I started my whole scrypt USB stick project...which I hope to continue with a new version on the current generation of scrypt asics). Of course all this comes with a trade off and thats with a higher upfront cost, which again is not for everyone.

So it again it comes down to your individual needs...are you a huge farm with massive capacity and low electricity price? Go with a Bitcoin miner...do you want quick ROI and high resell value go with GPU algos...are you a home miner with high electricity and want to play the long game? Go with L3. But dont make a decision based on a simple ROI calculator and do your research.

Thanks for the infos man, that was very informative, and your points make alot of sense. This said i find the short warranty and the "long game" a bit hard to mix in my mind, if the miners were 2 years warranty i would sign up right now, what's making me afraid is investing into something that could fail before i break even ;(, but maybe someday when i'm more mature in this world of mining, i will take the ASIC step Smiley
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January 20, 2017, 09:08:54 PM
 #274

So seems like my deal will go through with them, but they wont be able to send out my shipment until the first week of feb. As soon as I have the final numbers per unit and the freight shipping cost from them ill open up another thread for a group buy-in. It will most likely be conducted in a similar fashion to my USB scrypt stick pre order (except you wont have to wait months for these Wink. All BTC will be pooled in a public address that I will send directly to bitmain, they'll pallet drop ship all the units to me in NY, and ill simply slap a shipment label on them and send them out to you guys.

I know some of you guys have PMed me already, but ill start putting a serious list together with the number of units you guys are interested in so if you haven't already shoot me a PM with the number you want (figure around $1600 each unit).

Seems you are quite knowledgeable on those units, have you already calculated ROI with increasing difficulties & stuff and can give us an approximation of the true ROI ? i find it hard to calculate for ASIC based miners, i use this calc : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator, with 1% increased difficulty, but aside if you don't pay for electricity you don't seems to get ROI like ever and even it take 2+ years. So am i doing it wrong or is there some sort of secret to find those device to be profitable, like only doing alt-coin ? I was told this calc may not be accurate either. What do you think ?

Unfortunately I dont have the answer you are looking for, but I have been in the litecoin community since the GPU days, and what I do know is that litecoin has consistently been the most stable and profitable coin in all of crypto currencies. Other altcoins and have come and gone, they go through their spikes and dumps, and litecoin has always stayed in the sidelines returning the same profit day in/out.

Like others have mentioned its definitely the long game with litecoin. Yea you can be more profitable putting your money elsewhere right now, but in the long run I have made more gains with litecoin than any other crypto. The second main reason is im constrained by power capacity (have about 10kw dedicated to mining), and currently the L3 cant be matched by any other form of hardware in terms of $mined/watt, be it asic or GPU.

For example and S9 can put out 19 cents of revenue per month per watt, the most profitable GPU algo (zcash currently) 28 cents per watt, and the L3 is now at 34 cents per watt.

So you can see where the true value of scrypt mining lies...for the home miner that is constrained by power (both capacity and price), it cannot be beat. This is the reason I have always been a proponet of scrypt/litecoin for home miners (and is the reason I started my whole scrypt USB stick project...which I hope to continue with a new version on the current generation of scrypt asics). Of course all this comes with a trade off and thats with a higher upfront cost, which again is not for everyone.

So it again it comes down to your individual needs...are you a huge farm with massive capacity and low electricity price? Go with a Bitcoin miner...do you want quick ROI and high resell value go with GPU algos...are you a home miner with high electricity and want to play the long game? Go with L3. But dont make a decision based on a simple ROI calculator and do your research.

Well put!

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January 20, 2017, 09:24:22 PM
 #275


 The article is nothing more than ignorance and FUD.

 T9 mines faster for the same reason that pushing the voltage on the Spondoolies SP20E higher let it mine faster (with same number of chips instead of a few less, granted, but SAME idea).

 T9 is a string design like recent other BitMain miners.
 Fewer chips per string = more voltage per chip (and more power draw with lower efficiency).
 Higher voltage on chip = can clock chip faster at same reliability as long as you can keep the chip cool enough.
 Higher clock per chip = higher hashrate per chip.

 This is NOT new news, this is NOT complicate or secret, if the moron that wrote that article had bothered doing ANY research they would have quickly found out that the entire reason for the difference in T9 specs vs the T9 is TRIVIAL EASY to figure out and no "secret" at all.


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January 20, 2017, 09:31:18 PM
 #276


Unfortunately I dont have the answer you are looking for, but I have been in the litecoin community since the GPU days, and what I do know is that litecoin has consistently been the most stable and profitable coin in all of crypto currencies.


 For the last 2 years or so anyway. It's been impressively stable - but it's also had ZERO new gear showing up for most of that timeframe to drive hashrate and difficulty up.
 I've also gotten a sense that there might be a major mining whale out there that's been actively trying to keep the price stable (on a $ exchange basis, not on a BTC exchange basis) to keep their competition low enough to drive out most of the less efficient mining hardware while maximizing their own mining profits.

Quote

 im constrained by power capacity


 I have the same issue, but I am also constrained by lack of available capitol.
 The incremental cost of the L3 for me makes it not an option for the forseeable future, no matter how profitable it is - even if it turns out to be S5 level reliability or better instead of S9 unreliability level.

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January 20, 2017, 10:35:47 PM
 #277

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

You may assume this is the case but there's no guarantee that diff will increase any further and even if it does there's still no guarantee that it will increase consistently for 12-24 months.
If you look at LTC diff chart from Oct 2014 to Oct 2015 when Titans and A2's came on stream, diff increased to 58,000 in Dec 2014, and then fell back to just above 40,000 for 6 months before rising slowly to 58,000 again by the end of 2015, so for most of 2015 it was 10,000 below the starting point.
http://www.coindesk.com/data/litecoin-mining-difficulty-time/ Check the 'All' button.

The real question is how many L3's are going to be produced? If you look at the figures below 550 GH/s has been added to the Litecoin network alone since the 3rd of Jan.
Jan 20 2017    95,319    7.56%    2,729 GH/s
Jan 17 2017    88,617    5.96%    2,537 GH/s
Jan 14 2017    83,632    11.56%    2,395 GH/s
Jan 10 2017    74,964    -0.52%    2,146 GH/s
Jan 07 2017    75,357    -0.79%    2,158 GH/s
Jan 03 2017    75,959    -1.36%    2,175 GH/s

550 x 1000 / 250 = 2200 L3's. In total I'd imagine Batch 1 was 2500 or 3000 L3's with the rest mining alt-coins. How big will batch 2 be? I'd suggest we need to be prepared for another 2-2500.

The other factor is price. With the PBOC authorities cracking down on exchanges, the price has crashed and can probably only rise in the next 12-24 months. This will affect Bitmains production plans as low profitability will kill sales while people are using ROI calculators to assess profits, but can also change your ROI dramatically if you mine and hold. Factor in 10% per 6 months and see how that changes things. Of course prices could fall, but LTC itself is very stable so I doubt it.

One of my strategies is to get paid out in Shadowcash, Monero, MaidSafeCoin, ZCash, etc in the belief that these will continue to rise significantly in 2017.

Overall, the main problem with the available calculators is that they only consider one coin. If you mine on a multi-pool you should be able to make 10% to 30% more after fees than mining LTC alone. Once you factor that it and play with the risks and factors above, you might have a very different ROI calculation.

Try using 0.0000225 BTC per Mh/s per day as your payout, I think thats a fairly realistic figure to start with.
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January 21, 2017, 04:57:39 AM
 #278

But this calculator doesn't count the increase of difficulty, and it's the crucial thing for ROI. 1y of ROI is fine, but with ASIC you find it to be more like 2+ years.

You may assume this is the case but there's no guarantee that diff will increase any further and even if it does there's still no guarantee that it will increase consistently for 12-24 months.
If you look at LTC diff chart from Oct 2014 to Oct 2015 when Titans and A2's came on stream, diff increased to 58,000 in Dec 2014, and then fell back to just above 40,000 for 6 months before rising slowly to 58,000 again by the end of 2015, so for most of 2015 it was 10,000 below the starting point.
http://www.coindesk.com/data/litecoin-mining-difficulty-time/ Check the 'All' button.

The real question is how many L3's are going to be produced? If you look at the figures below 550 GH/s has been added to the Litecoin network alone since the 3rd of Jan.
Jan 20 2017    95,319    7.56%    2,729 GH/s
Jan 17 2017    88,617    5.96%    2,537 GH/s
Jan 14 2017    83,632    11.56%    2,395 GH/s
Jan 10 2017    74,964    -0.52%    2,146 GH/s
Jan 07 2017    75,357    -0.79%    2,158 GH/s
Jan 03 2017    75,959    -1.36%    2,175 GH/s

550 x 1000 / 250 = 2200 L3's. In total I'd imagine Batch 1 was 2500 or 3000 L3's with the rest mining alt-coins. How big will batch 2 be? I'd suggest we need to be prepared for another 2-2500.

The other factor is price. With the PBOC authorities cracking down on exchanges, the price has crashed and can probably only rise in the next 12-24 months. This will affect Bitmains production plans as low profitability will kill sales while people are using ROI calculators to assess profits, but can also change your ROI dramatically if you mine and hold. Factor in 10% per 6 months and see how that changes things. Of course prices could fall, but LTC itself is very stable so I doubt it.

One of my strategies is to get paid out in Shadowcash, Monero, MaidSafeCoin, ZCash, etc in the belief that these will continue to rise significantly in 2017.

Overall, the main problem with the available calculators is that they only consider one coin. If you mine on a multi-pool you should be able to make 10% to 30% more after fees than mining LTC alone. Once you factor that it and play with the risks and factors above, you might have a very different ROI calculation.

Try using 0.0000225 BTC per Mh/s per day as your payout, I think thats a fairly realistic figure to start with.


don't disagree accept if Bitmain follows the same strategy as it has with BTC miners..they will dump a lot to have us chumps pay for their data halls stuff..and then
difficulty will wane but at a difficulty level un-workable for us..it is how they roll imho or at least what is going on with their BTC miners.....

I just can't see data halls with btc miners much (except them with the T9) when it makes so much more sense to use the bitmain L3's at 400 watts and take over
this crypto as well....its the math vs reward...so imho I see a LOT of former btc china data halls making a move to scrypt miners instead with bitmain and then of
course how many bitmain needs for such as in its own data centers..and of course how many they plan on the home miner route to help fund above.

(curently climbing cell tower....figure at a 2.5% difficulty rise for LTC my Titans will be out by July and the L3's will be out by sept/oct.)

Hope I'm wrong..but this looks a lot like the difficulty hump that tossed all home miners out of BTC in 2014..very deja vu like Sad


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January 21, 2017, 07:26:31 AM
 #279


..but this looks a lot like the difficulty hump that tossed all home miners out of BTC in 2014..very deja vu like Sad

I think it more directly comparable to the scrypt hump that happened round the same time (http://www.coindesk.com/data/litecoin-mining-difficulty-time/ ), and then what happened?
1000's of Gen 1 ASIC and GPU miners quit the game and diff dropped from 58,000 to 40,000 for six months and then slowly climbed again as more and more A2's were sold and Titans were repaired and reverted back to full performance. During that time people who owned those 'new' miners started making money again. Not sure how long it took for early Titan owners to ROI that $10k sticker but I paid down my A2's no problem.

I'm hoping the same thing will happen this time except it will be the 2nd gen A2's and Zeus miners etc that are retired as they become uneconomical for most people to run.

I suspect it's also the end of the road for the home miner even if you have an L3, unless you can get electricity for less than $0.08 USD or thereabouts as the big miners will saturate the market to a level where they can still make a decent profit at $0.04 per Kw/h or whatever they're paying, but it will mean that it will be hard to make any money if you're paying domestic rates for power.

It's a waiting game for now.



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January 21, 2017, 09:08:47 AM
 #280


..but this looks a lot like the difficulty hump that tossed all home miners out of BTC in 2014..very deja vu like Sad

I think it more directly comparable to the scrypt hump that happened round the same time (http://www.coindesk.com/data/litecoin-mining-difficulty-time/ ), and then what happened?
1000's of Gen 1 ASIC and GPU miners quit the game and diff dropped from 58,000 to 40,000 for six months and then slowly climbed again as more and more A2's were sold and Titans were repaired and reverted back to full performance. During that time people who owned those 'new' miners started making money again. Not sure how long it took for early Titan owners to ROI that $10k sticker but I paid down my A2's no problem.

I'm hoping the same thing will happen this time except it will be the 2nd gen A2's and Zeus miners etc that are retired as they become uneconomical for most people to run.

I suspect it's also the end of the road for the home miner even if you have an L3, unless you can get electricity for less than $0.08 USD or thereabouts as the big miners will saturate the market to a level where they can still make a decent profit at $0.04 per Kw/h or whatever they're paying, but it will mean that it will be hard to make any money if you're paying domestic rates for power.

It's a waiting game for now.


Yeah I like your view better Smiley

I'd be a 'lot' more in your camp but for the fact we are talking about BITMAIN PRODUCTS which they put out as toasters. Also we had the 'sense' so to speak to stop
chasing the BTC difficulty massive rise back in 2014/15 etc and move to scrypt miners. What keeps me up at night is Bitmain and others in China at 2c electric have
figured out the same (2 years later)..if so I am beyond screwed finally Smiley Can't complain ....but just have the above issues...

Again mainly price...if BTC price pumps and LTC/scrypt comes a long just a bit..i MAY still squeak by into winter with my titans heating the house......

but that "unicorn dream' was always pushing my luck on a machine that was developed Fall 2014 and then 1st orig one hit my house Nov 8th 2014 Smiley

Oh well running on ROI steam now anyway ......frigging rubber band is winding down ...hamsters in the hamster wheel in the titans are getting older now

Titans are 'evil' and have always longed to 'brick themselves' into the bliss of 'doorstops' anyway...at least this way I can kill them instead of them wearing down

(damn they are evil..should probably post a youtube video of me putting a stake thru their asic chip souls as well to be safe when the time comes) Smiley




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