KNC Titan 300mh/Innsilicon 270mh/L3 250mh Bitmain Scrypt Miners Compared. Meh!

[Searing]

I'm using www.litecoinpool.org/calc calculator from www.litecoinpool.org a free NO FEE LTC pool that pays at 103% fyi


ok cutting it down further

KNC Titan 300mh at 1200w (using latest mods and gen tarkin software and improved noctura 3000 rpm fan etc) at 10c kwh at 4.17 LTC getting 103% on litecoinpool
(again see above calc link).

KNC Titan 300mh

24 hours   2.01788086 LTC   8.41 USD   2.88 USD   5.53 USD
7 days   14.12516602 LTC   58.90 USD   20.16 USD   38.74 USD
30 days   60.53642578 LTC   252.44 USD   86.40 USD   166.04 USD


L3 Bitmain 250mh

What this L3 Bitmain Scrypt miner at 250mh and 400w making at 400 watts *bet its really 500 watts* but anyway at 10c kwh at 4.17 getting 103% on litecoinpool

24 hours   1.68156738 LTC   7.01 USD   0.96 USD   6.05 USD
7 days   11.77097168 LTC   49.08 USD   6.72 USD   42.36 USD
30 days   50.44702148 LTC   210.36 USD   28.80 USD   181.56 USD

hmm...diff is $15.52 a month difference in profit. LOL! (Not as bad as I thought)

I also think that IF they are off on the watts and it is really 500 watts they'd be more or less equivalent.

Also IF the L3 Bitmain 250mh a month unit is sold at $2000 lets say (could be as high as $2300 but lets be optimistic) and compare it to an A4 getting 260mh to say 170mh
(they say 280mh but they also say each cube on the 2 cube A4 is 135mh lol) So we will use 270mh a kick ass *fixed* A4 batch 3 with firmware fixes....

A4 Innsilicon 270mh at 1100 watts (so I've been told by folk running them...Innsilicon says 1000 watts ...lets use 1000 watts) (again using litecoinpool calculator for LTC at 103%)

24 hours   1.81609277 LTC   7.57 USD   2.40 USD   5.17 USD
7 days   12.71264941 LTC   53.01 USD   16.80 USD   36.21 USD
30 days   54.48278320 LTC   227.19 USD   72.00 USD   155.19 USD

So to sum up

KNC Titan 300mh at 1200watts *using gen tarkin 3rd ware software with eff tweaks to get such, just to note* at 10c kwh and $4.17 LTC you get  MONTHLY $166.04 PROFIT

L3 Bitmain 250mh (say Jan 15th 2017) at 400 watts (they say likely to be 500 watts imho but lets use 400 watts) at 10c kwh and $4.17 LTC you get MONTHLY $181.56 PROFIT

A4 Innsilicoin 270mh (they say 280mh but know of none such) at 1000 watts (most say 1100 watts but using 1000 watts) at 10c kwh and $4.17 you get MONTHLY $155.19 PROFIT

hmm.....not to impressed...this only works also IF you got a unit Jan 15th 2017..I doubt they will get it to us in the USA at that time frame. Likely 1 month later.

So unless LTC and scrypt coins really, really pump here....this looks to me like oranges/oranges/oranges....on a side note....I see Titans sell for 2k/A4's are 2k with shipping and
L3's let say are 2k when they come out...admittedly the L3 will MAYBE last longer then the others with the electric use....but with the Titan getting 300mh the A4 getting 270mh
and the L3 getting 250mh as they all state standard.....the L3 loses some in 'slippage' with the bit extra hash of the others.

So as the title says...Meh!

Thought this would be a LOT rougher then this.

ANY scrypt POW miner today is IFFY...to say the least. The LTC to BTC ratio is 0.00457 ltc to btc as we speak. The price used above is $4.17c per LTC.

So we need (any scrypt unit running yet) at least imho 0.008 to 0.010 ltc to btc to make ANY of the units above...worth the estimated 2K I use above with shipping.

Also difficulty for LTC has gone up 20% in last 7 days or so. (ouch) the combo of price and ltc to btc ratio above has to change or it will be doorstop city imho.

The KNC Titans tend to be MORE for he reason..imho of their MODULAR nature...ie something breaks LIGHTFOOT on here can fix it ..and/or you just lose 1/4
hashing (1 cube) rather then maybe the whole unit...and they are hard to find, used though they are!

The A4's have a 45 day warranty and PROBABLY? the L3's also (I think?) . Looks like maybe if they go it is more like all or 1/2 hashing lost....if something goes boom.

Anyway take the poll. This was a lot and I mean a lot closer then I thought looking at the 400 watts for the L3..but the calc link above shows what it is from
www.litecoinpool.org NO FEE LTC pool at 103%...

Anyway along with taking the poll....post on here what you think of all this and the future of scrypt pow mining with how this seems to be lining up with all the
difficulty rises (LTC) and equipment and of course (imho) the crummy price for LTC as an example.

Also post your own views and modify my premise on above run your own calcs...this seems kosher to me ...but then again at one time I drank the BFL kool-aid so thus
am humbled...

silly hobby huh?

edit:

Here is the L3 speculation link

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1734098.msg17353755#msg17353755

here is the A4 link on their issues with hash and firmware and trials and tribulations group buy results

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1523298.msg17350717#msg17350717

KNC Titan thread (kinda light but their is lightfoot who can fix them...which is damn helpful....also the gen tarkin 3rd party firmware that imho has fixed them for another 2 years of use)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0

[m1n1ngP4d4w4n]

When people speak about scrypt, i only ever see LiteCoin, isn't there any other scrypt coin out here worth mining ? Gulden or Game coin seems to have a few BTC in them too.

As i said in others thread aside if you have lots of money to invest, ASIC mining seems to be pretty much dead for the little miner as ROI goes, what do you think ?

[Searing]

When people speak about scrypt, i only ever see LiteCoin, isn't there any other scrypt coin out here worth mining ? Gulden or Game coin seems to have a few BTC in them too.

As i said in others thread aside if you have lots of money to invest, ASIC mining seems to be pretty much dead for the little miner as ROI goes, what do you think ?

Well maybe ....it needs to be a bit more the 10% gain in price for it to be worth it on my KNC Titans. All the above scrypt miners work solid on all LTC pools. But MOST
scrypt pow miners above 110mh have issues in some manner with 'fast block coins' the Titans especially.

Thus taking a multipool like www.prohashing.com a good pool I've heard. They have a 5% fee. I think this is true of prohashing...but was told by Nicehash
to expect a 2-2.5% error rate on nicehash.......then you add the 3% bonus and NO FEE on litecoinpool (which has NOT gone down nor have I shown ANY errors in
1 year plus....I don't even have a backup pool set lol)

Now admittedly I think the coins you mention ARE doing better then 115% even with fees above taken out an errors...and if it gets much worse I will likely move
my stuff....but in the past what happens is EVERYONE runs off to another scrypt coin away from LTC (briefly anyway in the past) thus wait a week and having a
big bunch of miners (3150mh) the difficulty drops massively on LTC network...so in 5 days it compensates anyway....which is good ..moving 9 titans to a multipool
with the above I mention is a pain.....thus the LTC angle at least KNC Titan point of view...admittedly maybe lose 3-6 days on everyone shifting...but in the past
gain 3-6 days when everyone switches back with the more coins mined because difficulty dumped on LTC network...

weird but very true.....a look at yearly network hash rate will show such peaks/valleys

But yeah I've thought about it....and it may be less of a hassle for A4 users (though they have some of this big miner issues yet and firmware on quick block
coins I've heard...) and of course no idea on L3's if they are probably not out to USA folk till around Feb 1st 2017 at best.

Only real unknown is price......some say $2,300 usd and some say $1,800 but imho bitmain always seems to head to the high side ..at least on its home btc miners
So anyway lots of variables yet...I'm just throwing my 'guesses' out there with what I kinda know on Titans/A4's and the supposed L3's.

Again here is the L3 speculation link just started

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1734098.msg17353755#msg17353755

[Eyedol-X]

When people speak about scrypt, i only ever see LiteCoin, isn't there any other scrypt coin out here worth mining ? Gulden or Game coin seems to have a few BTC in them too.

As i said in others thread aside if you have lots of money to invest, ASIC mining seems to be pretty much dead for the little miner as ROI goes, what do you think ?

There are ways to increase profitability with Scrypt miners by using a mining pool that switches to other scrypt based coins or by mining other scrypt based coins directly and selling them on an exchange but for purposes of profitability estimation everyone uses Litecoin as it has the most value today.

In regards to the original post, its all oranges but power differences can huge for some and for those its a simple choice.

However, My vote is the price needs to go up, if the price goes up, it's going to always be oranges.

The question is how many A2's are still out there and when the diff spikes, how much hash will be lost to those that are no longer profitable.

[Searing]

When people speak about scrypt, i only ever see LiteCoin, isn't there any other scrypt coin out here worth mining ? Gulden or Game coin seems to have a few BTC in them too.

As i said in others thread aside if you have lots of money to invest, ASIC mining seems to be pretty much dead for the little miner as ROI goes, what do you think ?

There are ways to increase profitability with Scrypt miners by using a mining pool that switches to other scrypt based coins or by mining other scrypt based coins directly and selling them on an exchange but for purposes of profitability estimation everyone uses Litecoin as it has the most value today.

In regards to the original post, its all oranges but power differences can huge for some and for those its a simple choice.

However, My vote is the price needs to go up, if the price goes up, it's going to always be oranges.

The question is how many A2's are still out there and when the diff spikes, how much hash will be lost to those that are no longer profitable.

Power use was negated imho due to the hash rate differnces....KNC Titan used more watts but hashes at 300mh rather then say 270mh for A4 and 250 for the L3.

I was surprised how close they were.

Also KNC Titans as I explained in previous post to this is really really ugly on switching and or direct mining of say gamecredits and multipools...high error rate and the of course multipool
5% fee cuts in the 3% bonus on litecoinpool...titans love LTC..to a lesser extent this is a problem with big miners over 110 mh so I've been told...still a bit of a problem
with the A4 (not as much) and who knows on the L3

Also for the past year knc titans (before A4's) were pretty much all in this boat and all sitting on LTC....that is also why you hear so much (or did) about LTC difficulty
too many titans ...not enough other profitable scrypt miners..thus they herded together on litecoin network.

Thus a free pool like litecoinpool (5% saved there) and 3% bonus from that pool ..and the expected 2-2.5% error loss (see nicehash and prohash titan setup pages)
well thats 10% behind the curve ball for me ...so heck just mine LTC on litecoinpool.

But again ....that is the tradeoff...it also helps the pool never goes down and i have like NO errors at all for 6 months

I do know of A4's mining direct game credits and I think last I was told they were getting 20 bucks more in comparison (1 A4) a month with litecoinpool and its 103% even with fee

But again with the 3150mh of KNC Titans I have if everyone leaves LTC for the multipools....in 3 days I make it up in the difficulty drop anyway (then again
with all this equipment scrypt coming on line..that may go away for me)

The other issue is I think a lot of KNC Titan owners do what I do...also a mess of A4 owners that don't want to mess with stuff..in that most seem to be on litecoin
and most imho are doing what I'm doing mining LTC and converting to BTC asap...well that also drives the ratio of ltc to btc down to 0.00447 and the price at $4.17

So heck with all the equipment and difficulty wise and the price ratio to btc and usd prices....we could be just talking about the music while rome burns....saying

damn..that is nice fiddling...missing the obvious we are all doomed

but anyway If you have 1 scrypt unit an A4 at 270mh I'd probably do what you are doing...but KNC Titans are 'evil' beasts...you cannot for example, make direct eye
contact with them while in the basement doing laundry....or out of spite they will suddenly with malice... try to 'brick themselves' and get to their blessed desired
state of grace as 'doorstops' ...a constant goal of Titans.......ugly truth....can't complain in that i was mining with
one (added more) in Nov 2014 and now have 3150mh of such beasties...so they can play prima donna to me!
...but damn they are evil....it is tough even with the ACME 5 gallon bucket of chicken entrails, the voodoo Titan doll
and the Voodoo for dummies book.....to keep them working But yeah it is ugly enough I have considered doing what you say. We will see if my 'everyone leaves
Litecoin network and difficulty goes down' process continues to work..you may see me speeding to catch up if it don't!

[m1n1ngP4d4w4n]

Thx for the replies guys, this has been very informative


Ahah yeahn rigs tend to crash when you begin to pay attention to them aren't they ? dirty little devils :p

[Searing]

Thx for the replies guys, this has been very informative


Ahah yeahn rigs tend to crash when you begin to pay attention to them aren't they ? dirty little devils :p

Just re-looked at above...still can't believe how close they all are in profits.....vs hash and electric...keep double checking it...spooky
but does not look like a train I want to jump on.....if the A4's continue to pump out like toasters and the L3's are the usual bitmain
dump in mass..this could look to me like the little home miner guy would be trampled (unless you use electric space heaters or need
to and can limp into next winter 2017-2018.....hey its my goal now with the Titans ..my goal is modest another year of free heat...
damn I dream big)

But talk about when the Elephants do the Polka ...it is time for the mice to get off the dance floor analogy.sheeh

Also sad thing is ..this still looks a lot better to a China big time data miner with cheap electric (pow scrypt) then buying any
mass amount of BTC miners...me thinks we are gonna get crushed and in 2018 after my heated house is done...I need a new hobby
then a home asic of LTC miner ....going the way of home BTC miner...not happening

[QuintLeo]

When people speak about scrypt, i only ever see LiteCoin, isn't there any other scrypt coin out here worth mining ? Gulden or Game coin seems to have a few BTC in them too.

 Most other Scrypt coin have gone to "merged mining capable" to even continue to exist - even Doge finally caved and went that way.


 The reason the "current profitability" is so close on the 3 units in question is that they are VERY HIGH profitability vs. cost of electric - double the difficulty (which I can see happening over the next year) and the differences get a lot more pronounced.

 Add in the A2 and the differences get a LOT more pronounced - but even the A2 is STILL going to be profitable if the current difficulty doubles (if you don't have HIGH electric costs).


 I do have to wonder if either of the "newer generation" rigs are ever going to be able to match the ROCK SOLID reliability of the A2 units.

[m1n1ngP4d4w4n]

Ah yeah i see, so basically if you can't invest alot and have low electricity cost, it's hard to make a real profit on asic mining. well i'll keep on GPU's then ^^ seems to be the safe bet for now, asic is really for elite ;(

[Searing]

When people speak about scrypt, i only ever see LiteCoin, isn't there any other scrypt coin out here worth mining ? Gulden or Game coin seems to have a few BTC in them too.

 Most other Scrypt coin have gone to "merged mining capable" to even continue to exist - even Doge finally caved and went that way.


 The reason the "current profitability" is so close on the 3 units in question is that they are VERY HIGH profitability vs. cost of electric - double the difficulty (which I can see happening over the next year) and the differences get a lot more pronounced.

 Add in the A2 and the differences get a LOT more pronounced - but even the A2 is STILL going to be profitable if the current difficulty doubles (if you don't have HIGH electric costs).


 I do have to wonder if either of the "newer generation" rigs are ever going to be able to match the ROCK SOLID reliability of the A2 units.

Titans NOW finally are solid...we have litghtfoot on here that can fix most anything ..the gen tarkin 3rd party firmware is stupendous
and the maxumark replacement brackets and individual heatsinks and 3000 rpm noctura fan replacement for the 1500 rpm crummy knc fans have
knocked down my dc/dc temps by 10c to 15c....they run cooler now in the summer then they did last winter

Something to keep in mind..the knc titans are more or less fixed now..most repasted as well...we are good for another 2 years (who'd a thunk it)
keep that in your calcs...we likely are not gonna fall of any scrypt pow network.....we may lose a cube ...but modular nature makes them hard to
kill and again lightfoot can fix them now...we are golden (of course this is not what you want to hear..2 year old scrypt miners have 2nd lease on
life is hardly helpful on LTC or other scrypt difficulty....sorry about that)...but keep this in mind on you LTC difficulty and scrypt difficulty future estimates
it tosses them in disarray.....

Ah yeah i see, so basically if you can't invest alot and have low electricity cost, it's hard to make a real profit on asic mining. well i'll keep on GPU's then ^^ seems to be the safe bet for now, asic is really for elite ;(

Also remember all those cheap former BTC data halls with cheap electric in China etc...all these new scrypt miners pow ...like A4's and L3's supposedly

all look MUCH MUCH BETTER then equivelant BTC miners...so heck ..they also will likely rush to mass buy...i mean the warehouse is setup from their previous A2's or BTC miners

2c kwh ..off to the races

(damn scared self) but likely very likely that is where the pow money will go now....to the bitmain L3's for sure imho when they pop in mass

a simple calculator will show all them former btc miner boys that it would make more sense to mine scrypt pow to btc (hell its what I've done with success with knc
titans the last 2 years...) (all my tricks disappearing)

[toptek]

if you use Prohashing they pay out in all most any coin, not just  script coins  you can solo mine there and still be paid for solo mining , i know that may sound strange but they do pay for solo mining and you get paid. i tested it, I don't use Prohashing hashing much because my only Script miner that can actually pay me any thing  eats up Electricity it being = to a A2 but faster and uses more Electricity: Alchemist/Mat miner. my best pool to mine Scriipt on is CleverMining.com .

but yea you would think even with losing around  40 to 50 or so in speeds the L3 would still be better but is only  within  a few bucks i can see why Meh! fits here nothing to impressive after the Numbers are figured out .  and it may not be a as bad as it is looking but for sure won't be that great but well seee .

[Searing]

if you use Prohashing they pay out in all most any coin, not just  script coins  you can solo mine there and still be paid for solo mining , i know that may sound strange but they do pay for solo mining and you get paid. i tested it, I don't use Prohashing hashing much because my only Script miner that can actually pay me any thing  eats up Electricity it being = to a A2 but faster and uses more Electricity: Alchemist/Mat miner. my best pool to mine Scriipt on is CleverMining.com .

but yea you would think even with losing around  40 to 50 or so in speeds the L3 would still be better but is only  within  a few bucks i can see why Meh! fits here nothing to impressive after the Numbers are figured out .  and it may not be a as bad as it is looking but for sure won't be that great but well seee .

Again mentioned previous post here I think ...KNC Titans ugly beasts..I usually just wait for you all to leave LTC network and 3 days latter difficulty drops

that trick may also not work anymore and I may just have to use my knc titans on quick block coins and multipools (knc titans don't like that much) alas...whatever

floats the boat...not yet in my case...but again if I just had an A4 right now it is what I'd do ..like mine gamecredits and hope for a pump or a multipool

but at 3150mh big enough that if you all leave the ltc network and it dumps difficulty i just sweep up 3 days later Then again with all this equipment dumping

it may just go sideways and I will have to tag along..eat the error rate pay the 5% fee (yech!) sigh

[QuintLeo]

The question is how many A2's are still out there and when the diff spikes, how much hash will be lost to those that are no longer profitable.

 I suspect that most of the A2 units ever built are still hashing away - as they're still PROFITABLE for most folks (at current difficulty, 12c/KWH electric is still breakeven for an A2 on LiteCoinPool).

 Also keep in mind that most A2 units have been around long enough to have been long since paid off (probably the same for a most KNC Titan units for their current owners, though the "early $9995 preorder" folks that never sold out their miners might still have a ways to go).

 I just ran the numbers - at the less than 5c/KWH rate for my area, diff has to almost TRIPLE before my A2 units hit breakeven.
 I might have to worry about that later this year, but I'm hoping to be in the even LESS expensive electric cost area one county over by then.

[Searing]

The question is how many A2's are still out there and when the diff spikes, how much hash will be lost to those that are no longer profitable.

 I suspect that most of the A2 units ever built are still hashing away - as they're still PROFITABLE for most folks (at current difficulty, 12c/KWH electric is still breakeven for an A2 on LiteCoinPool).

 Also keep in mind that most A2 units have been around long enough to have been long since paid off (probably the same for a most KNC Titan units for their current owners, though the "early $9995 preorder" folks that never sold out their miners might still have a ways to go).

 I just ran the numbers - at the less than 5c/KWH rate for my area, diff has to almost TRIPLE before my A2 units hit breakeven.
 I might have to worry about that later this year, but I'm hoping to be in the even LESS expensive electric cost area one county over by then.

Adopt me! (I have 10c kwh (think it is a mistake it should be 11c kwh ...we will see) now winter rates and starting in 5 months 14c kwh may 15th 2017 summer rates)

crap....my only saving grace is I heated 85% of my house last winter with 2 Titan miners and have 4 this year so looking at 95%..if I can just float these
beasts into winter of 2017-2018 before winding them up....that would be epic......trade what I spent EVEN in Electric for equiv LTC to BTC.....a draw...would
be a nice way to wrap all the last of asic home mining up....

can't be too greedy my 1st Titan (have now 9 Titans ...7 new picked up this year..1 300mh corporation default (new) and 6 400mh knc liguidation sale this summer
1900 bucks each (really 342mh with bad
temp worker put togethers and usual knc dumbness the ran tests on some without any  thermal pads duh) also new....so can't complain...roi'd already)

So it has to end sometime..already 1.25 years longer then I thought they'd last...just last hurrah ...one more winter 2017-2018 baby......make it an even 3.5 years till
...what knc titans have always wanted in their attempts to brick themselves......blessed 'doorstop' nirvana...... (I kid thee not..they longingly want to be doorstops)

Hell its a goal...now IF frigging LTC would go back to 0.01 LTC to BTC or at $960 BTC or $9.60 LTC.....all our troubles would be over (dare to dream)

[Eyedol-X]

The question is how many A2's are still out there and when the diff spikes, how much hash will be lost to those that are no longer profitable.

 I suspect that most of the A2 units ever built are still hashing away - as they're still PROFITABLE for most folks (at current difficulty, 12c/KWH electric is still breakeven for an A2 on LiteCoinPool).

 Also keep in mind that most A2 units have been around long enough to have been long since paid off (probably the same for a most KNC Titan units for their current owners, though the "early $9995 preorder" folks that never sold out their miners might still have a ways to go).

 I just ran the numbers - at the less than 5c/KWH rate for my area, diff has to almost TRIPLE before my A2 units hit breakeven.
 I might have to worry about that later this year, but I'm hoping to be in the even LESS expensive electric cost area one county over by then.

I'm at .068 kwh and I'll be running my A2's for quite a while longer, unless difficulty shoots to the money and the price doesn't adjust.

It's those people out there that are running around .10 I think won't be running long.

I'm in the paid off boat for my A2's so the only thing affecting them now is power costs and maintenance (PSU Failures, already had 1)

I want 2-3 of these new L3's but not at the price being thrown around right now $2400 -- for that price I'd rather build another GPU Miner.

[Searing]

The question is how many A2's are still out there and when the diff spikes, how much hash will be lost to those that are no longer profitable.

 I suspect that most of the A2 units ever built are still hashing away - as they're still PROFITABLE for most folks (at current difficulty, 12c/KWH electric is still breakeven for an A2 on LiteCoinPool).

 Also keep in mind that most A2 units have been around long enough to have been long since paid off (probably the same for a most KNC Titan units for their current owners, though the "early $9995 preorder" folks that never sold out their miners might still have a ways to go).

 I just ran the numbers - at the less than 5c/KWH rate for my area, diff has to almost TRIPLE before my A2 units hit breakeven.
 I might have to worry about that later this year, but I'm hoping to be in the even LESS expensive electric cost area one county over by then.

I'm at .068 kwh and I'll be running my A2's for quite a while longer, unless difficulty shoots to the money and the price doesn't adjust.

It's those people out there that are running around .10 I think won't be running long.

I'm in the paid off boat for my A2's so the only thing affecting them now is power costs and maintenance (PSU Failures, already had 1)

I want 2-3 of these new L3's but not at the price being thrown around right now $2400 -- for that price I'd rather build another GPU Miner.

I DON'T KNOW ZIP.....BUT did trip over this on another thread you can follow ...about 1900 bucks aliexpress...and they say CC safe...but I've no clue...just pointing you there

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1734098.msg17354095#msg17354095


see posts under as well for more info

NOTE: FURTHER WARNING!!!!!

bitmain is KNOWN for filling data halls up BEFORE shipping units.....thus the difficulty rise imho may be less A4's and more bitmain ...this could get very very ugly
difficulty wise..just saying from past lurking and watching..others may be more informed on this kinda thing ask around.....


As to myself at 3200mh my plan may be to WAIT till end of 2017 and get a whatever approprate sized LTC unit at that time for 3 reasons

1) hopefully difficulty flat lines before say around the last 4 months of the year

2) I make so much on my Titan miners only 4 months of mining LTC with such would be a blessing if they keep the 25% equip depreciation you can take off all in 1 year

3) I can use say 2 of them at 800watts and get 60% of my winter heat paid 2017 to 2018 and could maybe even with ugly difficulty yet ROI with the heat benifit too
    this of course assumes worse case and my 3200mh of titans are doorstops due to difficulty and watts at that point..but still a work around

Has worked in the past....(good old KNC always late Oct Jupiter 550gh btc miner 2013.......late 1st knd titan nov 2014...other stuff end of 2015 (very little) 7 knc
liquidation titans (1 corp 6 knc liguidation) August of this year.....ate up all the mining I did nicely to ROI this year

But how I'm thinking now....not to mention 4) maybe some cheap titan cubes I can pick up along the way in dibs and dabs for little risk

Got to be an 'evil mastermind' to home mine anything these days..but as far as I can see it working with above is maybe creep thru next winter..beyond that imho
I think home LTC asic mining will be dead like home BTC mining in 2014 alas its a fun hobby kaput in a year likely without major scrypt pow price of coin rising

[GenTarkin]

The simple truth:
If you have a Scrypt ASIC NOW .... congrats, you already ROI'd and will keep doing so for a lil while longer.
If you plan on buying A4 / L3 .... congrats, it will take at least a year+ to ever ROI.... if diff and price stay where they are. We all know diff will skyrocket because people are addicted to mining even if its in the red.... so ROI will be 2-4years ... by then LTC may be completely worthless ... given how its done nothing but gone down consistently for the last 1-2 against BTC.

[jstefanop]

The simple truth:
If you have a Scrypt ASIC NOW .... congrats, you already ROI'd and will keep doing so for a lil while longer.
If you plan on buying A4 / L3 .... congrats, it will take at least a year+ to ever ROI.... if diff and price stay where they are. We all know diff will skyrocket because people are addicted to mining even if its in the red.... so ROI will be 2-4years ... by then LTC may be completely worthless ... given how its done nothing but gone down consistently for the last 1-2 against BTC.

Thats what people were saying after the LTC price crashed from 20 to $1, but that period was the most profitable mining period ever for me, and I know of no other coin that is more profitable to mine than LTC(and im talking averaged over years)...it has proven the test of time over and over while other coins come and go. Of course as people are now fighting for what is left of scraps in mining profitability looks like attention is turning to LTC and you could very well be right. This should be an interesting development though...doubt a powerhouse like bitmain would come into the LTC market without some major LTC pump incoming (which would be relatively easy to do still with LTC and the bitcoin china owns).

[vinylwasp]

KNC Titan 300mh at 1200w

I've never mined with a Titan, but I'm always wondering whether these figures are for Batch 1 or Batch 2+ Titans becuase I've seen screenshots of GenTarkin's Titan UI pulling 1530W?
Also is this the on-pool MHs figure or the reported 'at the miner' figure?

L3 Bitmain 250mh
What this L3 Bitmain Scrypt miner at 250mh and 400w making at 400 watts *bet its really 500 watts* but anyway at 10c kwh at 4.17 getting 103% on litecoinpool
I also think that IF they are off on the watts and it is really 500 watts they'd be more or less equivalent.
Also IF the L3 Bitmain 250mh a month unit is sold at $2000 lets say (could be as high as $2300 but lets be optimistic)

If it does do 250Mhs (no reason to expect it won't) this will be the 'at the miner' figure, so I'd count on less on-pool, say 235Mhs, and the price is a little less than $1600 USD excluding shipping so $1800 is a better figure to work with. https://shop.bitmain.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020161229040715306ygMSJQLh06C0
You can buy an L3 today.

A4 Innsilicon 270mh at 1100 watts (so I've been told by folk running them...Innsilicon says 1000 watts ...lets use 1000 watts) (again using litecoinpool calculator for LTC at 103%)

Based on my experience (I have a few A4's  ) I'd use 265 Mh/s (on Pool) and 1100w (with the B3 firmware, the A4 will mine at a 'reported' 281Mh/s 24 x 7 rock solid like my A2's did). If you check their final press release (once they'd tested them outside a lab)  Inno's original power spec was off a little, and they need a 1200W+ PSU (mine are all 1500w)

Thought this would be a LOT rougher then this.

I guess it's not too bad, the real question for me is: Should I sell my A4's and buy L3's? With twice the power effeiciency (and 1/2 the heat) I can double my capacity without pulling any more Kwh, or dispersing any more heat.  I think I just answered my own question 

The A4's have a 45 day warranty and PROBABLY? the L3's also (I think?) . Looks like maybe if they go it is more like all or 1/2 hashing lost....if something goes boom.

L3's have a 180 Day warranty.

[Searing]

The simple truth:
If you have a Scrypt ASIC NOW .... congrats, you already ROI'd and will keep doing so for a lil while longer.
If you plan on buying A4 / L3 .... congrats, it will take at least a year+ to ever ROI.... if diff and price stay where they are. We all know diff will skyrocket because people are addicted to mining even if its in the red.... so ROI will be 2-4years ... by then LTC may be completely worthless ... given how its done nothing but gone down consistently for the last 1-2 against BTC.

That"s what people were saying after the LTC price crashed from 20 to $1, but that period was the most profitable mining period ever for me, and I know of no other coin that is more profitable to mine than LTC(and im talking averaged over years)...it has proven the test of time over and over while other coins come and go. Of course as people are now fighting for what is left of scraps in mining profitability looks like attention is turning to LTC and you could very well be right. This should be an interesting development though...doubt a powerhouse like bitmain would come into the LTC market without some major LTC pump incoming (which would be relatively easy to do still with LTC and the bitcoin china owns).

Yeah I did that ...mined in 2015 when LTC price was low ....only way I got out is I was SOOOO pissed off I held when it was like 1.50 LTC price and dumped when it was over
3.75 usd..was like 6500 LTC or so....I was that stubborn..ate the titans price in electric too...just to make the hoard bigger

Just not sure with the other coin options out their beyond LTC that would work again. The LTC to BTC ratio then was 0.008 to 0.01 ltc to btc....if we could get 0.01 ltc to btc
back again at current prices that is $969 btc or $9.69 ltc...hell it could be difficulty city and we'd still be ahead of the curve!

Conflicted in 2014 watched the big difficulty pump of LTC and KNC Neptune"s BTC miners only had 5 month life and BTC home mining killed at 10c kwh and above
This A4's and bitmain L3's coming out like toasters has me concerned it may be a repeat of that. I've said this before but IF you had run a big A2 scrypt farm in
China say with 2c kwh electric and/or a huge BTC farm doing the same...you'd certainly get a new A4 of L3 scrypt miners for your data halls now..the math does
not lie! more $$$ in a big way compared to BTC equip and BTC difficulty rises imho.

Thus it may be a frigging blood bath for difficulty the first 9 months of 2017 and will be LTC and scrypt's swan song of Home Mining as a result....

Just to me looks damn familiar...so hedging/waiting especially after using the above info calculation on the Titans/A4's/L3's  on this thread

So I'll cower over here in the trees for a bit..watch you guys battle it out for equipment etc