The China Effect

[GMPoison]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars

Is there any data anywhere that breaks down in which country miners are located? Remember, just because Chinese pools represent most of the hashing power in the world, doesn't mean they're all Chinese miners. I live in the USA and I can easily contribute to that number by pointing to a Chinese pool.

That is true. You can mine at a pool located anywhere but the pool operator controls the rules you mine under. If you mine at AntPool, F2Pool, BTCChina, BW Mining, and Huobi then you agree to mine 8 mb blocks. Even if you prefer to mine 20 mb blocks you aren't in control of anything, the pool operator is.

True indeed, but is it not fair to then say that if you have the ability to mine at any pool, then the miners really are the ones in control as they could just as easily point themselves to different pools than those?

That's right but I think that's why most people believe the Chinese are controlling mining. Westerners believe in the decentralization of Bitcoin. If we had the power to do it we would, as you say, point our machines to non Chinese pools. So reasonable deduction would lead us to believe most of the individuals mining for the Chinese pools must live in China and trust the Chinese pools.

If we had the power to do so, would we really though at this point in time? I only say that miners could easily point to different pools if need be, as in if these big pools were to collude in some way and it were very obvious to the community what was going on and bitcoin was in grave danger. In that scenario, then I think even miners in China would point to different pools as it's not good for anyone in bitcoin for bitcoin to be destroyed, including all of those big scary Chinese miners, no? Hell, even for pool operators at that point.

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[QuestionAuthority]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars

Is there any data anywhere that breaks down in which country miners are located? Remember, just because Chinese pools represent most of the hashing power in the world, doesn't mean they're all Chinese miners. I live in the USA and I can easily contribute to that number by pointing to a Chinese pool.

That is true. You can mine at a pool located anywhere but the pool operator controls the rules you mine under. If you mine at AntPool, F2Pool, BTCChina, BW Mining, and Huobi then you agree to mine 8 mb blocks. Even if you prefer to mine 20 mb blocks you aren't in control of anything, the pool operator is.

True indeed, but is it not fair to then say that if you have the ability to mine at any pool, then the miners really are the ones in control as they could just as easily point themselves to different pools than those?

That's right but I think that's why most people believe the Chinese are controlling mining. Westerners believe in the decentralization of Bitcoin. If we had the power to do it we would, as you say, point our machines to non Chinese pools. So reasonable deduction would lead us to believe most of the individuals mining for the Chinese pools must live in China and trust the Chinese pools.

If we had the power to do so, would we really though at this point in time? I only say that miners could easily point to different pools if need be, as in if these big pools were to collude in some way and it were very obvious to the community what was going on and bitcoin was in grave danger. In that scenario, then I think even miners in China would point to different pools as it's not good for anyone in bitcoin for bitcoin to be destroyed, including all of those big scary Chinese miners, no? Hell, even for pool operators at that point.

Oh yeah, we would. I watched it happen with a pool that's no longer around called Deepbit. In fact, I was mining for Deepbit when they neared 50% and watched as people (myself included) moved to Slushes pool, eligius and others to even out mining power. That's the way it's supposed to work.

There are several attack vectors that become possible when one group has majority control over Bitcoin mining. Satoshi believed anyone able to gain 51% of the network's computing power would make more money using it to mine legitimately than blocking transactions or double spending so such an attack is unlikely. I believe he couldn't have foreseen the current situation or all possible reasons for an attack.

National governments and competing payment processors are likely to care more about protecting themselves than the amount of money they could make mining. What if the Chinese government confiscated the mining pools? Is the Chinese national government the one you would choose to trust if you had to trust a government?

[Decoded]

Question:  If it's China that's doing the selling and driving the price down,  who are they selling to?  And would that not lead to a redistribution of bitcoin?  Also, is there any proof of China as a whole being responsible for the drop?  I'll admit I read absolutely zero crypto news.

1. China is not intentionally driving the price down. The Chinese government is enforcing and adding more rules on Chinese exchanges. They've already held multiple closed-source lettings with heads of bitstamp, btc-e and huobi.

2. There has been no affect on miners, who are the ones doing most of the bitcoin related activities in China.

3. People in China are not necessarily dumping or pumping. It's fear that has drive the price down

[Oralmat]

Off course, China has effect in bitcoin price, So far as i know bitcoin has under-control to China 90%, so its mean China has trading with bitcoin more than half. So than definitely they could have control to pump and dump of bitcoin price. But reason it that if China is doing it, than that's all good for us, because when price down and up than we have a good chance to make money from it.

[Idrisu]

We can not do anything with bitcoin because chinese demand is too high and Once there are anything happened with bitcoin or chinese investors of bitcoins. that is very big problem because They owned biggest bitcoins in the world (90% bitcoin amount from China). I think we need another digital coin for the rest of the world.

Where did you get the source that 90% bitcoins are from China, that's an absurdly high number.

In fact over 90% of bitcoin are mining in china, The same number also for traders, exchangers and blockchainer. News and fundamental issues affect bitcoin because majority of magin traders and speculative traders are Chinese. If others developed countries keep on rejecting bitcoin and others cryptocurrencies, than Chinese will keep on control the crptocurrencies world.

[Amph]

Off course, China has effect in bitcoin price, So far as i know bitcoin has under-control to China 90%, so its mean China has trading with bitcoin more than half. So than definitely they could have control to pump and dump of bitcoin price. But reason it that if China is doing it, than that's all good for us, because when price down and up than we have a good chance to make money from it.

from where you get this source, in mining they only control 70% maybe more now, but in trading they surely control less than that and surely less than 90%

china is playing a big role in both environment but saying that they control the market is pretentious, actually they have lost quite a good control with the last policy of their government toward their exchange

[metalbean]

Off course, China has effect in bitcoin price, So far as i know bitcoin has under-control to China 90%, so its mean China has trading with bitcoin more than half. So than definitely they could have control to pump and dump of bitcoin price. But reason it that if China is doing it, than that's all good for us, because when price down and up than we have a good chance to make money from it.

from where you get this source, in mining they only control 70% maybe more now, but in trading they surely control less than that and surely less than 90%

china is playing a big role in both environment but saying that they contorl the market is pretentious, actually they have lost quite a good control with the last policy of their government toward their exchange

Am with you on this. To say that China controls X% without data is not right. China will play a big role, but to attribute all this and say X% like some mainstream media is not right.

The government called for the three big exchange for talks, but so far non have been banned, but of course it's being watched closely.

I am actually interested to know that if these exchanges are banned in China, IF. What other means do Chinese netizens have to buy bitcoins?

[bettercrypto]

Question:  If it's China that's doing the selling and driving the price down,  who are they selling to?  And would that not lead to a redistribution of bitcoin?  Also, is there any proof of China as a whole being responsible for the drop?  I'll admit I read absolutely zero crypto news.

1. China is not intentionally driving the price down. The Chinese government is enforcing and adding more rules on Chinese exchanges. They've already held multiple closed-source lettings with heads of bitstamp, btc-e and huobi.

2. There has been no affect on miners, who are the ones doing most of the bitcoin related activities in China.

3. People in China are not necessarily dumping or pumping. It's fear that has drive the price down

I agree the Chinese Government is just enforcing some rules to make it more safe for their citizen to trade with bitcoin though I guess whales are taking advantage on this scenario.  With lots of Bitcoin in hand and having some against bitcoin news, they can easily manipulate the market by dumping part of their huge holdings and start a panic sell from the weaker hands.

[1Referee]

I agree the Chinese Government is just enforcing some rules to make it more safe for their citizen to trade with bitcoin though I guess whales are taking advantage on this scenario.  With lots of Bitcoin in hand and having some against bitcoin news, they can easily manipulate the market by dumping part of their huge holdings and start a panic sell from the weaker hands.

You know what the real issue is with this? This Chinese news where so many people panicked over isn't anything that affects trading at all. It doesn't affect Bitcoin at all. If people took the effort to actually analyze and understand these articles, they wouldn't dump. Even after all these years people still haven't learned anything. People are as brainless as always. Especially when you consider how little effort it cost for whales to blow these articles up, but where the resulting market reaction is massive. It always works, so these whales will continue to influence the market. If people would stop dumping like brainless chickens, then these whales will have to come up with something else as it isn't working anymore.

[metalbean]

I agree the Chinese Government is just enforcing some rules to make it more safe for their citizen to trade with bitcoin though I guess whales are taking advantage on this scenario.  With lots of Bitcoin in hand and having some against bitcoin news, they can easily manipulate the market by dumping part of their huge holdings and start a panic sell from the weaker hands.

You know what the real issue is with this? This Chinese news where so many people panicked over isn't anything that affects trading at all. It doesn't affect Bitcoin at all. If people took the effort to actually analyze and understand these articles, they wouldn't dump. Even after all these years people still haven't learned anything. People are as brainless as always. Especially when you consider how little effort it cost for whales to blow these articles up, but where the resulting market reaction is massive. It always works, so these whales will continue to influence the market. If people would stop dumping like brainless chickens, then these whales will have to come up with something else as it isn't working anymore.

True

Especially in a market that is filled by individual traders.

Just imagine NYSE is five folds Shanghai Exchange but their trading volume is the same. Alot of pump and dump by small timers that are affected by the news and rumour mill especially by whales. Institutional traders just sit back and reap the post-panic bargains.

[Slark]

You know what the real issue is with this? This Chinese news where so many people panicked over isn't anything that affects trading at all. It doesn't affect Bitcoin at all. If people took the effort to actually analyze and understand these articles, they wouldn't dump. Even after all these years people still haven't learned anything. People are as brainless as always. Especially when you consider how little effort it cost for whales to blow these articles up, but where the resulting market reaction is massive. It always works, so these whales will continue to influence the market. If people would stop dumping like brainless chickens, then these whales will have to come up with something else as it isn't working anymore.

I agree with you, majority of traders, even top whales are acting like headless chickens at the first sight of unconfirmed news.
After reading articles explaining what that recent Chinese government intervention really was I have to admit that they are doing good job!
So far Chinese exchanges seemed like total wild west: no fee policy, trading with borrowed money, fake volume - PBOC by stepping in did the right thing.

[severaldetails]

You know what the real issue is with this? This Chinese news where so many people panicked over isn't anything that affects trading at all. It doesn't affect Bitcoin at all. If people took the effort to actually analyze and understand these articles, they wouldn't dump. Even after all these years people still haven't learned anything. People are as brainless as always. Especially when you consider how little effort it cost for whales to blow these articles up, but where the resulting market reaction is massive. It always works, so these whales will continue to influence the market. If people would stop dumping like brainless chickens, then these whales will have to come up with something else as it isn't working anymore.

I agree with you, majority of traders, even top whales are acting like headless chickens at the first sight of unconfirmed news.
After reading articles explaining what that recent Chinese government intervention really was I have to admit that they are doing good job!
So far Chinese exchanges seemed like total wild west: no fee policy, trading with borrowed money, fake volume - PBOC by stepping in did the right thing.

I have begun to see the main reason for bitcoin price volatility in psychological effects.
A few begin to run, and a big part of the flock follows.
The most important thing that you can have when working with bitcoins is a reasonable mind.
Psychological effects, no matter if they drive the price up or down, they all cool off in a relatively short time.

[arbitrage]

I don't know why people forgetting China is leader in producing miners and equipment for miners. This way they improving network strength and directly shape future for Bitcoin in economy of Chine and the rest of the World . So next time when you point a finger to China, ask yourself does all your friend know about Bitcoin?

[metalbean]

I don't know why people forgetting China is leader in producing miners and equipment for miners. This way they improving network strength and directly shape future for Bitcoin in economy of Chine and the rest of the World . So next time when you point a finger to China, ask yourself does all your friend know about Bitcoin?

Good thinking

Why kill it when you can shape it

[Tanic]

I don't know why people forgetting China is leader in producing miners and equipment for miners. This way they improving network strength and directly shape future for Bitcoin in economy of Chine and the rest of the World . So next time when you point a finger to China, ask yourself does all your friend know about Bitcoin?

I think if China effect really exist we going to see it on Chinese New Year. I'm sure that many of bitcoin holders from that country will cash out their coins cause of the celebration and the effect if it really has place to be will be visible.

[maku]

I think if China effect really exist we going to see it on Chinese New Year. I'm sure that many of bitcoin holders from that country will cash out their coins cause of the celebration and the effect if it really has place to be will be visible.

Actually there might be something to it. Chinese New Year 2017 is on Saturday, January 28th, 2017. A week from now.
We won't see traders liquidating their positions because of that, but I think some minor price drops are to be expected.
Prepare to buy cheap bitcoin, gentlemen.

[Dr.Osh]

china can provide a great effect on bitcoin, because they hold so many bitcoin spread. perhaps if they were doing a massive sale on bitcoin, I'm sure the price will be very fast bitcoin down. but, they may play an important role in increasing the price of bitcoin.

[Bitcoin0916]

Whatever happens in China will have an impact on bitcoin. This is because the majority owner of bitcoin is China. Do not be surprised after the Chinese New Year bitcoin prices will rise again even passing $ 1.100. All peoples in China will buying again.

[Tanic]

I think if China effect really exist we going to see it on Chinese New Year. I'm sure that many of bitcoin holders from that country will cash out their coins cause of the celebration and the effect if it really has place to be will be visible.

Actually there might be something to it. Chinese New Year 2017 is on Saturday, January 28th, 2017. A week from now.
We won't see traders liquidating their positions because of that, but I think some minor price drops are to be expected.
Prepare to buy cheap bitcoin, gentlemen.

Are you prepared?
I am just wonder if the fall cause of Chinese new year will really happen  - for how long it's going to be? I live only with bitcoin and the current price totally satisfy me, so I will not be happy for the price drop

[BitFinnese]

I think if China effect really exist we going to see it on Chinese New Year. I'm sure that many of bitcoin holders from that country will cash out their coins cause of the celebration and the effect if it really has place to be will be visible.

Actually there might be something to it. Chinese New Year 2017 is on Saturday, January 28th, 2017. A week from now.
We won't see traders liquidating their positions because of that, but I think some minor price drops are to be expected.
Prepare to buy cheap bitcoin, gentlemen.

Are you prepared?
I am just wonder if the fall cause of Chinese new year will really happen  - for how long it's going to be? I live only with bitcoin and the current price totally satisfy me, so I will not be happy for the price drop

I do not think Bitcoin wil fall because of Chinese New Year.  I am optimist that bitcoin will increase while the Chinese New Year is approaching.  And besides Bitcoin is being bullish again.  It just gone up another $20+ in some exchanges.  I hope this increase continuous.