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Rassah
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April 23, 2013, 06:19:37 PM
 #81

I'm no longer 19 and have yet to read her work, I probably wouldn't enjoy it.

Read it fir the first time when I was about 26 or 27. Mind you, AFTER I got my degree in finance and economics (the one that included Keynesian based economic theories, and nothing about Mises)

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April 23, 2013, 07:39:15 PM
 #82

Sorry if it offends people, but I think Rand was basically a KOOK.
The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

She's at her best here, but you can see the effects of the Benzedrine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k
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April 23, 2013, 08:37:04 PM
 #83

The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

Huh? Examples?

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April 23, 2013, 08:45:28 PM
 #84

The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

Huh? Examples?

Alan Greenspan. Last Chairman of Federal Reserve.  Member of Ayn Rand Institute and of the Atlas Society.  Friend and admirer of Ayn Rand and convert to her obhectivism since the early 1950s.



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Rassah
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April 23, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
 #85

The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

Huh? Examples?

Alan Greenspan. Last Chairman of Federal Reserve.  Member of Ayn Rand Institute and of the Atlas Society.  Friend and admirer of Ayn Rand and convert to her obhectivism since the early 1950s.

Well, yeah, we know about him, and there's also Rand Paul and Paul Ryan... That's 3 well known ones out of the 100 senators, 500 members of house, 50 governors, and many other officials. Many of these people are very socialist (both republicans and democrats, with just their own brand of socialism) or religious ideologues. So... where is the "many" that are Randians?

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April 23, 2013, 08:57:37 PM
 #86

The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

Huh? Examples?

Alan Greenspan. Last Chairman of Federal Reserve.  Member of Ayn Rand Institute and of the Atlas Society.  Friend and admirer of Ayn Rand and convert to her obhectivism since the early 1950s.

Well, yeah, we know about him, and there's also Rand Paul and Paul Ryan... That's 3 well known ones out of the 100 senators, 500 members of house, 50 governors, and many other officials. Many of these people are very socialist (both republicans and democrats, with just their own brand of socialism) or religious ideologues. So... where is the "many" that are Randians?

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 

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April 23, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
 #87

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

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April 23, 2013, 09:06:31 PM
 #88

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

With respect, why would I?  If your argument is that the Ayn Rand Society board members don't understand her books, then what's the point?

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April 23, 2013, 09:08:32 PM
 #89

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

With respect, why would I?  If your argument is that the Ayn Rand Society board members don't understand her books, then what's the point?

Well, your argument seems to be that the members of the Ayn Rand Society board share have a large overlap with people in government office. I suggested that I find that hard to credit.

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April 23, 2013, 09:13:49 PM
 #90

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

With respect, why would I?  If your argument is that the Ayn Rand Society board members don't understand her books, then what's the point?

Well, your argument seems to be that the members of the Ayn Rand Society board share have a large overlap with people in government office. I suggested that I find that hard to credit.

The question was whether there were many Ayn Rand devotees in government.  I provided one famous example.  He happened to be a board member.  I'm sure there are more; the lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 

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April 23, 2013, 09:18:34 PM
 #91

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

With respect, why would I?  If your argument is that the Ayn Rand Society board members don't understand her books, then what's the point?

Well, your argument seems to be that the members of the Ayn Rand Society board share have a large overlap with people in government office. I suggested that I find that hard to credit.

The question was whether there were many Ayn Rand devotees in government.  I provided one famous example.  He happened to be a board member.  I'm sure there are more; the lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
And it is my contention that "of course there will be many who share her views in government" is unlikely, given her views, especially of government.

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April 23, 2013, 09:23:16 PM
 #92

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

With respect, why would I?  If your argument is that the Ayn Rand Society board members don't understand her books, then what's the point?

Well, your argument seems to be that the members of the Ayn Rand Society board share have a large overlap with people in government office. I suggested that I find that hard to credit.

The question was whether there were many Ayn Rand devotees in government.  I provided one famous example.  He happened to be a board member.  I'm sure there are more; the lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
And it is my contention that "of course there will be many who share her views in government" is unlikely, given her views, especially of government.

There are many who enter government determined to destroy it.  

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77834.html

Here's another couple for you.

Its not fun for either of us to manually list Ayn Rand supporters who got into positions of power or debate the meaning of "many."  Its a matter of fact that they exist and that they don't see the contradiction in the way that you do.  Lets just leave it there Smiley

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April 23, 2013, 09:26:27 PM
 #93

There are many who enter government determined to destroy it.  
True, but that rather puts the lie to the comment that started this all:

The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

Unless, of course, he is frightened by the collapse of the state?

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April 23, 2013, 10:26:27 PM
 #94

I agree with many of the premises of objectivism in how they relate to society, government, and forced collectivism.  I reject it as the highest moral goal, since I believe there is some good in altruism and sacrifice that is done voluntarily.

If you do it willingly, it's not sacrifice. You're giving up one value - generally money, sometimes time - for something you value more: the knowledge that you have helped someone else. It's only sacrifice if you give up a greater value for a lesser, which necessarily requires coercion.

That people generally see the idea of not giving up a greater value for a lesser as rejecting helping others speaks poorly of them, not Rand.

Why should every action be decided based on a "value judgement"? How are those bars in that mental prison of yours? Are you still on the outside and managing to keep those evil ideas safely locked-up? Wink
The "value judgment" need not even be conscious. If you've ever walked past a goodwill kettle without dropping a coin in while your pockets were not empty, you've made the decision that you value whatever you would have to forgo in exchange for making that donation more than you value the feeling you would have gotten from donating.

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April 24, 2013, 02:19:20 AM
 #95

Are you asking for a list?  Google it or write to the Ayn Rand Society.  I'm sure either way way works.  The lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
Have you read the books? Have you even looked at a wikipedia article about her views? Few who share them would seek government employ.

With respect, why would I?  If your argument is that the Ayn Rand Society board members don't understand her books, then what's the point?

Well, your argument seems to be that the members of the Ayn Rand Society board share have a large overlap with people in government office. I suggested that I find that hard to credit.

The question was whether there were many Ayn Rand devotees in government.  I provided one famous example.  He happened to be a board member.  I'm sure there are more; the lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government. 
And it is my contention that "of course there will be many who share her views in government" is unlikely, given her views, especially of government.

There are many who enter government determined to destroy it.  

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77834.html

Here's another couple for you.

Its not fun for either of us to manually list Ayn Rand supporters who got into positions of power or debate the meaning of "many."  Its a matter of fact that they exist and that they don't see the contradiction in the way that you do.  Lets just leave it there Smiley



Not, it's not fun.  Because it's simply not the case that there are many people in government service who understand or agree with Rand's ideas.    Listing a few people doesn't create the "many".

Note I said "understand or agree".  One could understand but disagree. 

Again, there would be few in goverment service with that attitude.

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April 24, 2013, 04:28:07 AM
 #96

The question was whether there were many Ayn Rand devotees in government.  I provided one famous example.  He happened to be a board member.  I'm sure there are more; the lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government.  

There are very few Rand devotees in government because if they were they would end rule by majority and end the income tax.  My favorite piece of hers is red army, white army, you can listen to it on youtube.
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April 24, 2013, 07:49:38 AM
 #97

The question was whether there were many Ayn Rand devotees in government.  I provided one famous example.  He happened to be a board member.  I'm sure there are more; the lady has a following and of course there will be many who share her views in government.  

There are very few Rand devotees in government because if they were they would end rule by majority and end the income tax.  My favorite piece of hers is red army, white army, you can listen to it on youtube.

I think you are kidding yourself.  Alan Greenspan never advocated either of those things.  Ayn Rand herself applied for and took Social Security. If the members of the board of the Ayn Rand Society and Ayn Rand herself behave in this way, you must assume that you have misunderstood her work.

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April 24, 2013, 08:45:46 AM
 #98

...snip...

There are many who enter government determined to destroy it.  

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77834.html

Here's another couple for you.

Its not fun for either of us to manually list Ayn Rand supporters who got into positions of power or debate the meaning of "many."  Its a matter of fact that they exist and that they don't see the contradiction in the way that you do.  Lets just leave it there Smiley



Not, it's not fun.  Because it's simply not the case that there are many people in government service who understand or agree with Rand's ideas.    Listing a few people doesn't create the "many".

Note I said "understand or agree".  One could understand but disagree.  

Again, there would be few in goverment service with that attitude.



Lets not debate the meaning of "few" either as that also is not fun.  I think we can agree Ayn Rand is one of the 25 most influential writers in US politics today.  I'm not entirely sure why her supporters on this forum want to disavow those of her devotees that got elected or that got appointed to government.  If the board members of the Ayn Rand Society aren't "pure" enough, then the whole thing seems a little pointless.

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April 24, 2013, 01:01:14 PM
 #99

There are many who enter government determined to destroy it.  
True, but that rather puts the lie to the comment that started this all:

The fact that so many government officials and economists are Randians
just makes her ideas more creepy.

Unless, of course, he is frightened by the collapse of the state?

I think any sane person is frightened of the collapse of the state - it almost always leads to massive violence due to a power vacuum.

We can add Paul Ryan to her list of devotees (he had to backtrack during his campaign because of the atheism brand).
Ron Paul's son is named after Ayn Rand.  Did we get to "many" yet?

Many of Rand's supposedly radical ideas can be traced back to Nietzsche.
She dumbed down many of his ideas and used them as starting points for her novels.
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April 24, 2013, 01:33:01 PM
 #100

Ron Paul's son is named after Ayn Rand.
No, he is not. Rand is short for Randal.

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