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Question: How much of the transaction fee profits did Mt Gox reinvest into security, infrastructure, and the exchange?
-100% (they borrowed against the profits to invest in a ponzi scheme)
-50% (they borrowed against the profits to buy hookers and blow)
-25% (one word: Amway)
-5% (when a nigerian prince emails you asking for help, you do it!)
0% (mommy and daddy demanded payment on a series of loans)

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Author Topic: Mt Gox is lying  (Read 1915 times)
takynakasi
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April 12, 2013, 09:54:31 AM
 #21

We need a decentralized exchange!

Nice thought, but probably (near to) impossible. You would have to verify each user similarly like bitcoin does with transactions.
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takynakasi
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April 12, 2013, 09:57:31 AM
 #22

On the other hand: Bitcoin itself maybe has some options to make exchanges doable by scripting operations. But that would mean that each transaction will be delayed the same way as regular payments... And still there has to be a machanism to pair trades... and still it doesn't seem to be good to bloat the blockchain with all stock exchanges => maybe some merge-mined crypto just for this purpose?
yyrkoon
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April 12, 2013, 09:58:34 AM
 #23

I believe there was some form of ddos on mtgox and they didn't admit it directly.

They openly admitted to this two days ago to some online tech magazine. Sorry I do not remember exactly where I read this, but I did. This article also explained that these DDOS's for the last week or so are intentional towards the end goal of destabilizing the BTC. Seems to be working pretty good yeah ?  
Kit
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April 12, 2013, 09:59:41 AM
 #24

To me and I believe many of us here, bitcoin represents freedom and choices! Gox defiantly needs some competition and restructuring.
what are the other competition, or is there none?
takynakasi
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April 12, 2013, 11:00:47 AM
 #25

what are the other competition, or is there none?

btc-e.com is doing well
there exists even other ones like vircurex.com...
resma
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April 12, 2013, 11:02:16 AM
 #26

With the very high price of bitcoin last days, I suspect they have a problem when someone wants to cash in a larger BTC accounts. They just don't have that money. They force the price to drop... Happens ones, happens twice, it will happen again.

Mt. Gox is an exchange, if you want to sell your BTC for USD there must be a willing buyer available. Mt. Gox only role is to match buyers and sellers.

Normally, every buy/sell order only happens in their system. Probably, the real money is invested somewhere, like every normal bank does (they want to make money, don't they?). If however, certain people with large BTC accounts are announcing that they will cash, Gox has to reclaim that money. Delaying trades (faking lag) and thus dropping the price redistributes the bitcoin to people who are not intending to cash on short term. The guys wanting to buy-out just get paid less...
sun
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April 12, 2013, 11:21:20 AM
 #27

There's so much unwarranted Mt.Gox-hate from folks who are, generally speaking, completely responsible for their market position in the first place.

Bitcoin is new, so major exchanges don't take it seriously. The only places that did were tiny folks that used to trade a virtual currency for cards from a nerd-game. The market grew faster than they were ready; it just happened that Mt.Gox actually tried to keep up with it--and did all right for some time.

These issues with Mt.Gox are growing pains. They're to be expected; the fact that so many folks seem to expect them to be able to handle this massive influx of interest without a hitch is pretty silly. There will be hiccups.

Where they go from here will depend entirely on their ability to cope with this most recent bout of malarkey. Either they'll lose market share and others will gain it... or they'll solidify their position even more.
Solaarian
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April 12, 2013, 11:33:10 AM
 #28

The interesting thing about all of this is that trust becomes an issue.  In the regulated currency markets there is at least the illusion that regulators will catch out people doing the wrong thing or at least perhaps prosecute those if they 'get away with it.'  In a currency like BTC, where there is anonymity and little regulation, trust is harder to build up and unless there is a trusted whistle blower then much is conjecture, and the possibility that people will spread misinformation to further their own ends.  To educate yourself around all the issues to the extent that you can make an informed judgement is a time consuming thing; and even then we can get it wrong.  It seems to be the perennial issue where there is profit of any sort to be made - Who do you trust?
nick7
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April 12, 2013, 11:50:32 AM
 #29

The only places that did were tiny folks
Gox isn't tiny.

that used to trade a virtual currency for cards from a nerd-game.
Their previous business has nothing to do with their current incompetence.

The market grew faster than they were ready
Sure, the alleged 20,000 new users per day would have been a strain, but this could have been handled if they had the foresight to build a scalable system. Instead, they were lazy and cheap. There are other factors to the Gox lag that they are entirely able to mitigate. But again, they're lazy and cheap, and were making a shitton of profit from being that way.

Fuck them.
sun
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April 12, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
 #30

Gox isn't tiny.
They most certainly are--in comparison to almost any "real" exchange, anyway.

Their previous business has nothing to do with their current incompetence.
Perhaps not, but given the small time-frame within which they have grown from that trading-card company to the largest bitcoin exchange, their current incompetence becomes, if not forgivable, then certainly somewhat understandable.

Sure, the alleged 20,000 new users per day would have been a strain, but this could have been handled if they had the foresight to build a scalable system. Instead, they were lazy and cheap. There are other factors to the Gox lag that they are entirely able to mitigate. But again, they're lazy and cheap, and were making a shitton of profit from being that way.

Fuck them.

You're not really mad at them. You're mad at yourself. Anyone who bothered to do a bit of research and learn a little about their potential to suffer exactly these sorts of growing pains could have seen this coming five miles away. It wasn't like their problems just magically popped up suddenly without any indications whatsoever. Their failures here will serve to strengthen the bitcoin market as a whole in the long run.

Bashing Mt.Gox for the failure of the speculators to realize the potential of a relatively small exchange finding itself thrust into a rapidly growing market and being too unprepared, too incapable, or just too stupid to handle it is just crazy.
matbullet
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April 12, 2013, 12:21:32 PM
 #31

use bitstamp.net instead? Smiley
nick7
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April 12, 2013, 12:53:31 PM
 #32

They most certainly are--in comparison to almost any "real" exchange, anyway.
Yeah, except Gox isn't a "real" exchange. Compare apples to apples, please.

Perhaps not, but given the small time-frame within which they have grown from that trading-card company to the largest bitcoin exchange, their current incompetence becomes, if not forgivable, then certainly somewhat understandable.
No. It's not forgivable at all. You're a Gox-apologist and it's really quite sad. The problems Gox is facing aren't new and they weren't unknown, and the solutions to such problems have been implemented before. It's not like Gox was suffering some unique, never-before-experienced technological issues.
You said so yourself:
It wasn't like their problems just magically popped up suddenly without any indications whatsoever.
Gox has failed to implement the necessary preventative measures that would have mitigated this mess. They sat on their arse and raked in the money. They're not just incompetent, they're irresponsible.

You're not really mad at them. You're mad at yourself. Anyone who bothered to do a bit of research and learn a little about their potential to suffer exactly these sorts of growing pains could have seen this coming five miles away.
I don't use Gox. I didn't like Gox before and I don't like them now, but now I'm mad at them because they should have been able to do a better job. Their fuck up has adversely affected the entire economy. If it was isolated to Gox users then I would probably just laugh at them.
impossible2short
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April 12, 2013, 01:29:28 PM
 #33

You're not really mad at them. You're mad at yourself. Anyone who bothered to do a bit of research and learn a little about their potential to suffer exactly these sorts of growing pains could have seen this coming five miles away. It wasn't like their problems just magically popped up suddenly without any indications whatsoever. Their failures here will serve to strengthen the bitcoin market as a whole in the long run.

Bashing Mt.Gox for the failure of the speculators to realize the potential of a relatively small exchange finding itself thrust into a rapidly growing market and being too unprepared, too incapable, or just too stupid to handle it is just crazy.

Mt Gox has been making money in transaction fees for literally years.  Their website says they have handled 80% of all btc transactions since at least 2011.  They have had YEARS to get their servers upgraded.  They chose to do the 12 hour job of upgrading them in the middle of a panic???  If they had researched what bitcoin was intended to become, maybe read their own statements about their belief it would become a relevant currency GLOBALLY, and paid attention to their own subscriber growth trending data, they probably would have expected the volume of transactions and users to explode any time starting back in 2011, citing previous outages and volume related failures in 2010, 2011, and 2012.  CNBC has articles dating back to 2010 citing trader interest in bitcoin, and boom/bust cycles amplified by exchange-failure fueled panics.  Mt Gox has experienced "growing pains" EVERY single time volume has increased over the years.  I only loosely follow bitcoin and I am aware of all this from snippets in the financial news!  I rant bc I see the day coming when Mt Gox is bought  by some filthy bank and we're right back where we started.
fluffypony
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April 12, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
 #34

Whilst you raise a valid point, I believe the DDoS attack only started when the price dipped - perhaps as a trigger. For eg, cause the new traders to panic and sell because it looks like mtgox is getting hacked, which causes the price to plummet, which causes more panic selling.

gochk
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April 12, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
 #35

Lying or not ... MtGox represents everything BTC is supposedly not - centralized.
btcEiki
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April 12, 2013, 01:57:40 PM
 #36

A decentralized exchange wold be interesting.
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April 12, 2013, 02:12:25 PM
 #37

Exchanges aren't a bad thing for bitcoin, having only a couple is.  The whole point is to be decentralized and with having mtgox handle 80% of all transfers it's assinine to the whole idea of bitcoin.  Create more exchanges so they all compete and share the load of infrastructure.

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Larynth
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April 12, 2013, 02:14:24 PM
 #38

The day has come and gone when MtGox will be bought by a filthy bank. They are now basically run by Silicon Valley Bank, where do you think they got the cash for the upgrade? You didn't honestly think they saved up for the servers did you?
sun
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April 12, 2013, 02:20:16 PM
 #39

Yeah, except Gox isn't a "real" exchange. Compare apples to apples, please.
I am. I think that the bitcoin economy is a "real" economy, but agree that Mt.Gox is not a "real" exchange (yet). Mt.Gox is an apple trying to make it in an orange market--and having a difficult time of it.

The problems Gox is facing aren't new and they weren't unknown, and the solutions to such problems have been implemented before. It's not like Gox was suffering some unique, never-before-experienced technological issues.
You said so yourself:
It wasn't like their problems just magically popped up suddenly without any indications whatsoever.
Gox has failed to implement the necessary preventative measures that would have mitigated this mess. They sat on their arse and raked in the money. They're not just incompetent, they're irresponsible.
So what? So what if they're greedy, incompetent, irresponsible f*cktards? Can the bitcoin economy not handle it? If the bitcoin economy is capable of allowing greedy, incompetent, irresponsible f*cktards to climb to a position in which they are capable of destroying said economy, then it deserves its fate... and somewhere, deep down... you know it.

I don't use Gox. I didn't like Gox before and I don't like them now, but now I'm mad at them because they should have been able to do a better job. Their fuck up has adversely affected the entire economy. If it was isolated to Gox users then I would probably just laugh at them.
You used bitcoin. You used bitcoin, yet claim you did so knowing that greedy, incompetent, irresponsible f*cktards were running the largest fiat-currency exchange. You claim you didn't like Gox and are mad at them because they "should have been able to do a better job," yet you still put yourself in a position in which you depended on the job they were doing. I'll say it again...

You aren't mad at them. You're mad at yourself, because you placed yourself in a position in which folks you've described as greedy, incompetent, and irresponsible had the ability to f*ck with your life.

"Lie to yourself, if you must, but not to me."
ElBurro
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April 12, 2013, 02:52:33 PM
 #40

Are there any real alternatives to Gox? It seems like the most trustworthy place to send my friends interested in Bitcoins.
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