Money laundering via BTC

[deisik]

It was your claim after all that the cases of people using that method to launder money were documented

So it is up to you to provide evidence proving it, namely, who documented them, else you are a loud mouth (no offense, there are many such here). I assume these cases were documented in courts if at all. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with whether I have knowledge on topics like this or not.

Its not a claim.

Its a fact.

You not knowing its a fact is proof you lack knowledge on the topic.

Expecting others to teach you things you have no will to learn on your own, only leaves you at the mercy of those who are educated

What is the point of you debating over this?

You said that the cases of people using Android apps for money laundering had been well documented, so I guess you could as well expect to be asked who exactly documented these cases since that would make a devastating difference. If they were documented in court trials on money laundering issues as I assume, this pretty much tells the worthiness, or rather futility of this approach to the task in question. What does it have to do with my alleged lack of knowledge on the topic as you now claim?

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[South Park]

Is it possible to do money laundering via bitcoin? I mean as no one knows if you have bitcoin and how much bitcoin do you actually own, it could be used to convert black money to white right? Or at least store your black money without much hassle. But there is the risk of its value but I think for people who have lots of black money and don't want to be caught, this risk might be worth taking for them isn't it?
What are your thoughts?

When someone buys BTC with "dirty" money that's not exactly a money laundering. Assume you have lots of BTC, now what? If you'd buy an expensive car or a house with those BTC it would be still suspicious as if you'd bought them with the "dirty" money. Money laundering is when you buy a business and then make it to appear that it is profitable, although in reality it is not, and make people believe you made a lot of money from that business. Thus you might lose 30% of your "dirty money", but 70% of it would be "clean".

Correct, money laundering is the act of making illegal money legal and just buying bitcoin does not make it legal , you just transformed your wealth from fiat form to bitcoin form, maybe someone could try to make his earnings seem come from trading or casino earnings and then cash out.

[Pattart]

Very simple stuff. Create business, build business, accept btc and buy your own service with your own btc. Pay the small amount of tax and you have clean money. One simple method of hundreds or thousands out there.

Lol it looks like you've experienced to eliminate the traces after carrying out illegal activities. indeed with bitcoin you can do the laundering of money, so that you will avoid taxes or else

[squatz1]

Without a doubt possible through some pretty easy mixing services on here, one of the biggest ones would have to be bitmixer. Though, this is kind of a weird to ask this on such a public forum!

[morantis]

Go to Marketplace like LBC(localbitcoins) and you will find people buying BTC at much higher rate than Actual rate , for bulk they are offering much more , so who are they?? They are the launders who are converting their excess money to bitcoin.

Yeah..Money becomes headache when you have much..

while that is 99% of the time true, there are still some people out there that produced their little bitcoin bag from early mining and just plain silly little tasks.  to some of these people they don't see the value in what they are holding.  it is like someone came in there house and said that people were paying cash for Monopoly money and rather than try to $500 for the $500 bill, they say screw it, free money and sell the whole lot for $50.

even one of our small investments brings in $25 in BTC weekly.  If we had never made the mental transition to see the true value in that we could dump them every week for $10 and grab fast food.  

[Mbah Slamet]

This is a serious problem that must be get solutions, do not ever think that bitcoin will be accepted many peoples or countries even if the presumption bitcoin is a great place for money laundering. Anonymous makes bitcoin as a paradise for money laundering. Let's find a solution together to stop this issued.

[morantis]

This is a serious problem that must be get solutions, do not ever think that bitcoin will be accepted many peoples or countries even if the presumption bitcoin is a great place for money laundering. Anonymous makes bitcoin as a paradise for money laundering. Let's find a solution together to stop this issued.

you may be right, but history has shown that first a small group of people follow the money, however it is generated, more people join that group and then the sheep herds follow last.  the usa is built on the blood money of domestic and foreign wars, loans from other countries never paid back, revenue and empires built on slave trade, import and export of drugs, war machines and weapons and other various ambiguous endeavors

i owned lockheed martin stock on 9-10-01 and also on 9-11-01.  because they build aircraft for war and weapons, the ten minutes surrounding 9-11 showed a near doubling in stock price, based directly on the assumption of the actions that would follow a terrorist attack.  no one tossed their stock certificates in the street because the price increase came at the cost of some 4000 people followed by a war costing many more lives. 

the deciding factors for bitcoins will be convenience, value and other factors, not the possible uses of it.  this is crude, but true, announce to the public that a huge spike in miscarriages is coming and that the value of xyz pharm stocks is going to triple and they will say very sad things, WHILE BUYING STOCK

it is the fear of these drug cartels and terrorists and other groups that cause individuals and families to build strong investments and prepare for an unknown future.  without checking, i can be very sure that the US Dollar has been used to launder more money than most other currencies on the planet, just based on demographics and being one of the big five and it is still used without a single tear

[SvenBomvolen]

   When we talk about money laundering I think we need to know that criminals are smarter now then before, and no matter how much governments are trying to end this with new techniques criminals always find a way to cheat the system. I`m sure that criminals are using bitcoins for their illegal activities, I`m just not sure how will someone stop them. Bitcoin offer anonymity, but at what cost? I pass through all this topic, and I didnt find answer on questions that bothers me. Is there a way to prevent criminals from using bitcoins in illegal purposes?

[morantis]

   When we talk about money laundering I think we need to know that criminals are smarter now then before, and no matter how much governments are trying to end this with new techniques criminals always find a way to cheat the system. I`m sure that criminals are using bitcoins for their illegal activities, I`m just not sure how will someone stop them. Bitcoin offer anonymity, but at what cost? I pass through all this topic, and I didnt find answer on questions that bothers me. Is there a way to prevent criminals from using bitcoins in illegal purposes?

no, there is not.  in its current form, bitcoin is ideal for money laundering.  what happens prior to the funds becoming bitcoin and what happens after they are exchanged may be controlled, but the question implies that it speaks about the funds during the bitcoin process and there is no stopping the nature of the code without it becoming something that is no longer bitcoin

[diegz]

   When we talk about money laundering I think we need to know that criminals are smarter now then before, and no matter how much governments are trying to end this with new techniques criminals always find a way to cheat the system. I`m sure that criminals are using bitcoins for their illegal activities, I`m just not sure how will someone stop them. Bitcoin offer anonymity, but at what cost? I pass through all this topic, and I didnt find answer on questions that bothers me. Is there a way to prevent criminals from using bitcoins in illegal purposes?

The answer to this is yes, they can be stopped. But it should start from the very root. Before a criminal could launder his/her money by using a bitcoin, for sure they will use exchange sites to deposit their money. That is where everything should start. Know the identity of those who wants to deposit in an exchange, ask where their funds came from and put it on the record, just in case the government wants to ask it, that way, in case the government is starting to trace them and their money, the record is a great evidence.

In case they buy from a person, then that's a different case, but for sure, the one that will sold them bitcoin will also be liable.

[frendsento]

Obviously, this is rampant especially because people are doing it online and it is really hard to let them pay for this. If you are using an exchanger site then you are banned I must say that you are already doing the money laundering thingy

There is a difference between money laundering by using exchange and depositing bitcoin on an exchange from jobs. At this days where rich people who wants to money launder and use bitcoin exchange I think won't succeed easily. Exchanges are now clever and probably abiding the law. They are now asking for identification and most probably they might start to ask on what is your source to fund your account or wallet.

Actually They are doing it right now here in the Philippines there is a exchange service named coins.ph before you cash out the money you must first verify your identity like passing to them your personal ID and also forcely you have to take a SELFIE it also ask what source will I use to fund my wallet that's a big trouble if your money don't come in a legitimate way

[Finestream]

Obviously, this is rampant especially because people are doing it online and it is really hard to let them pay for this. If you are using an exchanger site then you are banned I must say that you are already doing the money laundering thingy

There is a difference between money laundering by using exchange and depositing bitcoin on an exchange from jobs. At this days where rich people who wants to money launder and use bitcoin exchange I think won't succeed easily. Exchanges are now clever and probably abiding the law. They are now asking for identification and most probably they might start to ask on what is your source to fund your account or wallet.

Actually They are doing it right now here in the Philippines there is a exchange service named coins.ph before you cash out the money you must first verify your identity like passing to them your personal ID and also forcely you have to take a SELFIE it also ask what source will I use to fund my wallet that's a big trouble if your money don't come in a legitimate way

Do they ask you where you money came from? I guess what they are doing is just to comply with the KYC policy, you will only be ask if you are making enormous money coming in to that exchange and most especially if you are under investigation. AMLC will notify a site regularly of the suspected and proven criminals so their account can be investigated, if you are not in the list, you will be fine.

[basesaw]

yeah it can be launder. but it is easy to know if you got one. better be safe and have bitcoins on trusted suppliers. if you are suspicious about the traded bitcoin to yeah better check it. but there are alt coins that accepted as legal, we have the thread about the alt coins that can be converted to bitcoins. you can read to that thread about those alt coins.

[Btc_1856]

This is a serious problem that must be get solutions, do not ever think that bitcoin will be accepted many peoples or countries even if the presumption bitcoin is a great place for money laundering. Anonymous makes bitcoin as a paradise for money laundering. Let's find a solution together to stop this issued.

Not all people are doing it only few like who want convert their fiat currency into bitcoin. When they convert to bitcoin so there is no money for them to pay taxes, so to abound the taxes these people are converting fiat into bitcoin but any governments will get a solution for this very soon.

[stadus]

yeah it can be launder. but it is easy to know if you got one. better be safe and have bitcoins on trusted suppliers. if you are suspicious about the traded bitcoin to yeah better check it. but there are alt coins that accepted as legal, we have the thread about the alt coins that can be converted to bitcoins. you can read to that thread about those alt coins.

It may be easy to know but there are people who manage to launder with bitcoins and keep on doing that with alt coins. There are some when their bitcoins came from something illegal, they are just using some mixers or just pass it with many wallets and buying alt coins in the same value of the bitcoins they have and sells it with bitcoin, so no trace at all.

Well, that's true, not all people doing criminal activities are being caught by the authorities, hence this are called a  perfect crime and only smart people can do this. However, don't expect one can enjoy it doing forever as no secret would last forever.

[morantis]

That's why bitcoin is being used and abused by those people and it was the preferred medium of payment in the deep web, they are really thanking bitcoin for making them anonymous. Even there are exchange sites that aren't allowing bitcoins that are coming from gambling or any illegal activities still those people manage to do something for it.

i want to bring attention to this line of the quote.

Even there are exchange sites that aren't allowing bitcoins that are coming from gambling or any illegal activities

even these sites can automate checks on new deposit addresses for their origin.  this is the state that dirty coins start off at.  you have to put so much distance and tx confusion between that moment and the moment you change to fiat that no one will have a clue

[Ipwich]

That's why bitcoin is being used and abused by those people and it was the preferred medium of payment in the deep web, they are really thanking bitcoin for making them anonymous. Even there are exchange sites that aren't allowing bitcoins that are coming from gambling or any illegal activities still those people manage to do something for it.

i want to bring attention to this line of the quote.

Even there are exchange sites that aren't allowing bitcoins that are coming from gambling or any illegal activities

even these sites can automate checks on new deposit addresses for their origin.  this is the state that dirty coins start off at.  you have to put so much distance and tx confusion between that moment and the moment you change to fiat that no one will have a clue

The only solution to this is to comply with the law of your respective country, you can launder your money but that does not mean you will not be caught in the future. Remember that bitcoin is good for tracing transactions due to its public ledger.

Normally, for some countries gambling is illegal but I don't think that is a serious offense than selling illegal drugs or weapons and if you are just gambling, you are in the least priority.

[morantis]

there is so much attention being given to stopping money exchanging, clean or dirty that the authorities seem to have forgotten the fact that BTC anonymity allows children and young people below the legal limit to gambling with near zero effort.  My kids are 7 now, but I bet in the next two years they will be sneaking Bitcoins from my wallet, lol.

[rchstr]

It is possible money laundering can be easily done even a normal peroson can do it. Laundering bitcoin now a days is ordinary, but im not saying that all of them was ilegal. Some of them are altcoins which you can convert to bitcoins. Some people uses it as the trading system.

[morantis]

It is possible money laundering can be easily done even a normal peroson can do it. Laundering bitcoin now a days is ordinary, but im not saying that all of them was ilegal. Some of them are altcoins which you can convert to bitcoins. Some people uses it as the trading system.

busy side chain coins work as the only thing the public sees in X BTC leaving your wallet and disappearing into the dark side chain. if there are other users on the same side chain, there is no casual, easy way for the public/agencies to know what exiting coins were originally yours.

one of the freelance coders that we employed would just throw fast, random diversions, attacks, mixing and anything that came to his mind.  I watched him run a script one day and asking what it did he showed me.  During his highest traffic times this script submitted huge numbers of NULL scripts that has the wallet addresses on the TX's written plain text/hex in the empty bitspace of those TX's.  The network fees cost some, but it most likely doubled or tripled the work a block parsing program would use.