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Author Topic: Isn't Islam a religion of hate and violence, not peace and love?  (Read 3882 times)
markj113
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January 11, 2017, 09:36:06 PM
 #21

Of course. But that means you should keep in mind when talking about how "they make bombings and shootings" and else, that we're doing far worse to them and we've been doing this for freaking decades.
So let's not all start acting like little virgins who get unfairly attacked while they were completely innocent.
We attacked first. We destroyed entire nations without reason. We killed dozens of thousands of civilians.
How do you want them to deal with us in any way but with hate, violence and revenge of desire?

In 2016 there were 2475 Islamic attacks in 61 countries, in which 21238 people were killed and 26677 injured.

So its not just the nasty US or EU the muslims arent happy in, its a Global problem.

Quote
We attacked first. We destroyed entire nations without reason. We killed dozens of thousands of civilians.
How do you want them to deal with us in any way but with hate, violence and revenge of desire?

If this is the case then we need to finish the job once and for all, them or us right?
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January 11, 2017, 11:18:15 PM
 #22

Very good comments, but at this moment I will only comment on the bolded.  Completely, totally reject this assertion.

We are more observers of the behavior of Islamics than anything else.  We don't need to read their old books to study their behavior in the world.

And for starters as to "sources," how about we try Wikipedia?

Oh you're the one always talking about logical fallacies no?
Ok let's go.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
Clearly he says that if you question the Islam religion you should begin by studying the Islam holy book. You're misleading everyone by answering about studying Islamic people behaviour while it was neither your question nor his arguments. You're basically answering another question than the thread you started is about while considering another answer than the one he stated, congrats that's a combo strawman.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal
Congrats another combo.
You're both trying to answer while making an monstrous generalization saying that you observe the behavior of Islamics which is false, you observe the anecdotic events given out by the media. Not like you took into account the behaviour of all Islamics did you?

Oh and I won't even talk about you chose to ignore 80% of his post of course xD
His post is not ignored.  I had limited time at that moment.  But you misunderstood what I was calling a strawman argument.

It is the titles of the 2 prior threads with titles "Kill Muslims" and "Do you hate muslims."

These titles are strawman arguments. 

Plus they are disgusting titles.   Honestly I don't even want to discuss anything in a thread entitled "Kill Muslims."
SvenBomvolen
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January 12, 2017, 12:56:58 AM
 #23

   There isnt much to discuss here, all religions are the same! People do bad things in the name of religion, not just now, its like that since the beginning of the world. In most cases people intentionally "misinterpret"* religion in order to use it as a justification for the bad things they do.
   I think muslims are just more extremist in that, their laws about girls, about alcohol and drugs, they are like from medieval century. I dont know how they live under such laws, personally I could never become one of them and live in that kind of communities. Freedom for all!

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January 12, 2017, 01:15:18 AM
 #24

well atleast we can be happy that it is just some terrorist per year wearing a bomb suit or kidnapping a truck.

imagine the mudslimes would have a real army with stealthbombers, tanks, rocketships, ballistic missiles etc. pp. and would atleast go to war once every decade to not have their economy collapse  Shocked


Dont throw with rocks if you are sitting in a glasshouse.


PS: Russia doesnt have to hide in the shadow either.
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January 12, 2017, 01:16:46 AM
 #25

A big big no! You were fooled by news and all media reports out there.
Fooled? Are you suggesting all these bombings, shootings and lorry rampages have been fabricated by the media?
You talking about how we are currently and for the last 20 years if not more, bombing shooting and destroying entire Muslim nations around the world but the media don't say a word about it?
The news only reports news that is newsworthy. One set of rare events gets more coverage than another that is more common.
For example, bad weather, which happens relatively rarely, always gets disproportionate coverage compared with good weather coverage.

I'm not saying it right, I'm just saying that's the way it works.


Of course. But that means you should keep in mind when talking about how "they make bombings and shootings" and else, that we're doing far worse to them and we've been doing this for freaking decades.
So let's not all start acting like little virgins who get unfairly attacked while they were completely innocent.
We attacked first. We destroyed entire nations without reason. We killed dozens of thousands of civilians.
How do you want them to deal with us in any way but with hate, violence and revenge of desire?

Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. One example would be the Islamic Revolution in Iran, where the USA overthrew the Shah and allowed a government run by the Shia muslim Ayatollah Khomeini to gain power. This leader held far more strict rules on social discipline, and turned Iran into a far more authoritarian country than it was before the revolution.

The Civil War in Syria was also responsible, and certain countries supporting Al-Assad (the current Al-Assad's father), for geopolitical gain.

Not to mention that earlier, in the aftermath of WW1, many western politicians decided to draw arbitrary borders on a map to separate certain Middle Eastern cultures/countries, and ended up putting people that didn't get on in the same country all of a sudden, causing civil wars.

The Western support of Saddam Hussein (and the sale of arms to him to win his civil war), and then later his demise when he became useless to the USA and Britain. The list goes on.

And it's worth mentioning that a few hundred years ago, the Islamic world were actually at the forefront of science and medicine, while the rest of the world were throwing "witches" in lakes and seeing whether they floated or not.

There has always been individuals ready to battle for their religion, question is are they actually doing it for their religion or just using religion as an excuse for barbaric behaviour?

It's a very complicated situation.
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January 12, 2017, 01:49:06 AM
 #26


Christians NO LONGER burn people alive?
Christians did much worse than what some Muslims are doing currently. But Islam is a religion 600 years younger than Catholicism.
Wanna know what we were doing 600 years ago?
That's right. Spanish inquisition.
So don't act like they're more barbaric than we have ever been k?

The bulk of the human race has kind of moved on and advanced over the last 600 years,  just waiting on one religous group to catch up to the rest of us.

Seems like you are justiftying current attrocities by pointing out events from hundreds of years ago.

Or maybe I'm the only one trying to answer the thread question?

The question is about Islam RELIGION being a religion of hate and violence. All I'm saying is that Islam isn't mature enough compared to a religion which is 600 years older! If you want to talk about Muslims then that's a DIFFERENT subject! Islam and Muslims are not the same thing, so don't try to make me say what I didn't say.

And I would add that human race evolved yeah, but some parts of the world were a bit too busy with our armies bombing the shit out of them last decades, so they no longer have any kind of education because they no longer have the buildings to teach anything... And humans without education are not far from the middle age people.

So what? now religions are like wine?  They are all fucked up, except some were smart enough to adjust to the changing times or lose membership.

Islam is rigid as it was written by a guy nicknamed Allah in the 6th or 7th century, the guy called himself God.   And he put it down: "To all motherfuckers out there, do not try to change my shit. blah,blah...".

So Muslims are stuck.  They cannot just ignore some quotes without ignoring the rest of these scribblings.

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January 12, 2017, 01:52:57 AM
 #27

Wikipedia shouldn't be considered as something reliable clearly , Unlike Bible and the other books , the quran have only one version and didn't change since 1400 years so this is a reliable source instead of reading articles by people who probably don't know anything about the subject.

If we also think logically , saying that Islam is a religion of hate and there are more then 1.7 billion muslim out there , shouldn't you and me (and everyone else) be dead by now ?

Muslims are people. People naturally understand that peace is what makes things work. This is why most of them are weak Muslims. The Koran says that Muslims should convert others to Islam, and after a time of attempted conversion, if they won't convert, to kill them. Most Muslims won't do this. They are weak Muslims.

ISIS is following the Koran - perhaps a little too zealously. But they are following it way more than your average Muslim.

The masses of Muslims in the world are generally Muslim in name, only. And, one has to be pretty dumb to become a simple Muslim.

These are parts of the reason that Islam, with well over a billion people who supposedly are Muslim, can't get together to conquer the world. They aren't even intelligent enough to see that they are not following their religion according to their holy book. But they are naturally intelligent enough to see that peace is the only answer to life.

Koran violence - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

Cool
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January 12, 2017, 03:45:02 AM
 #28

......
Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. ......
Almost none of what you wrote is relevant to the situation today.  Islam owns suicide bomber whackjobs, period.  There's no rationalizing about how somehow that's the fault of "the west."  It's not.  It's what they do.  They blow themselves up, often with NO clear purpose or goal. 

It's really quite laughable that you'd try to shrug it off.  Or blame it on things that have zero relation to it.
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January 12, 2017, 03:48:58 AM
 #29

Of course. But that means you should keep in mind when talking about how "they make bombings and shootings" and else, that we're doing far worse to them and we've been doing this for freaking decades.
So let's not all start acting like little virgins who get unfairly attacked while they were completely innocent.
We attacked first. We destroyed entire nations without reason. We killed dozens of thousands of civilians.
How do you want them to deal with us in any way but with hate, violence and revenge of desire?

In 2016 there were 2475 Islamic attacks in 61 countries, in which 21238 people were killed and 26677 injured.

So its not just the nasty US or EU the muslims arent happy in, its a Global problem.

Quote
We attacked first. We destroyed entire nations without reason. We killed dozens of thousands of civilians.
How do you want them to deal with us in any way but with hate, violence and revenge of desire?

If this is the case then we need to finish the job once and for all, them or us right?
bolded above, right.  The EVIDENCE does not show that Islamic violence is a focused punch back on "the West."  It is tactics used whenever, whereever, for whatever, often without a reason even well stated.

Sure seems like Islam is full of a lot of hate, doesn't it?
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January 12, 2017, 04:40:24 AM
 #30

Wikipedia get's its insight on the Islam religion from the Koran...the single book that outlines the tenants of the religion. I agree with you that actions speak more loudly than words on a page...so terrorist act after terrorist act shifts our perception of how people live out the religion.

One thing that has constantly annoyed and concerned me - why hasn't a high ranking member of the Islam religion (an Imam from Saudi Arabia or another devout Islam country) spoken out against terrorist acts...immediately after they happen? When there is a terrorist act the first thing we hear from a Muslim person is credit (from ISIS/Daesh, etc.)

We NEVER hear an Imam denouncing the acts and reaffirming to the world that the religion is one of peace. That fact is one to be explored and discussed further.

How do you hear about these terrible things done in the name of Islam? The news media.

Does the news media report a story about "group of Muslims peacefully attended mosque today!"? No.

The reason you believe Islam is a hate-filled religion is because you're only exposure to the religion is what you hear and see on the news. And the priority of the news is to (mostly) report the tragedies of the world. Ever heard of the news industry phrase "if it bleeds, it leads"?

You say 95% of terrorism is conducted in the name of Islam. This may be true, but I'd love to read the article you're using as a source for that fact.

A more meaningful fact is what percentage of Muslims conduct terrorism? If it was less than 1% would you still think it's a hate-filled religion? Less than 2%? 5%? What threshold is appropriate for the religion to receive that assessment?

I've never read the Koran, but the Islam holy book is THE ONLY true source to answer your question - it will either state tenants that request or suggest hate and violence or it won't, and those are the rules that the religion is lived by.
Very good comments, but at this moment I will only comment on the bolded.  Completely, totally reject this assertion.

We are more observers of the behavior of Islamics than anything else.  We don't need to read their old books to study their behavior in the world.

And for starters as to "sources," how about we try Wikipedia?

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January 12, 2017, 05:29:02 AM
 #31

[...]
We NEVER hear an Imam denouncing the acts and reaffirming to the world that the religion is one of peace. That fact is one to be explored and discussed further.

Yeah that's because immams/muslims denouncing acts of terrorism don't make a good news story.

There has been many protests by muslims agianst the despicable terrorism that ISIS and other inflict on the world, but it doesn't get reported because it doesn't fit the agenda of most mainstream news outlets. Do little digging and you'll find that it does happen, and quite regularly.

I've personally seen a group of well over a thousand muslims protesting in the street against this sort of hatred, and I don't even live in a very big city.

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January 12, 2017, 06:33:05 AM
 #32

Yeah that's because immams/muslims denouncing acts of terrorism don't make a good news story.

Whenever they take out such rallies and marches, they get very good media support. But the truth is that such incidents are very rare. They are more bothered about the implementation of the Shariah law in western nations.

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January 12, 2017, 12:51:44 PM
 #33

......
Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. ......
Almost none of what you wrote is relevant to the situation today.  Islam owns suicide bomber whackjobs, period.  There's no rationalizing about how somehow that's the fault of "the west."  It's not.  It's what they do.  They blow themselves up, often with NO clear purpose or goal. 

It's really quite laughable that you'd try to shrug it off.  Or blame it on things that have zero relation to it.

Sure.
Let's ignore the part where West detroyed entire developed civilizations. Not like it is linked in any way woth Islam extremism.
Ever heard of Iran? 40 years ago they were educated and developped in depth, they had no or nearly no extremism.
Then West decided to take control of this zone and use the country for their own interest. Now it's the the center of one of the major centre of terrorism.

But of course, it's just a coincidence. There is NO WAY that destruction of schools and institutions is linked whatsoever with rise of extremism.

valta4065
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January 12, 2017, 12:55:10 PM
 #34


Christians NO LONGER burn people alive?
Christians did much worse than what some Muslims are doing currently. But Islam is a religion 600 years younger than Catholicism.
Wanna know what we were doing 600 years ago?
That's right. Spanish inquisition.
So don't act like they're more barbaric than we have ever been k?

The bulk of the human race has kind of moved on and advanced over the last 600 years,  just waiting on one religous group to catch up to the rest of us.

Seems like you are justiftying current attrocities by pointing out events from hundreds of years ago.

Or maybe I'm the only one trying to answer the thread question?

The question is about Islam RELIGION being a religion of hate and violence. All I'm saying is that Islam isn't mature enough compared to a religion which is 600 years older! If you want to talk about Muslims then that's a DIFFERENT subject! Islam and Muslims are not the same thing, so don't try to make me say what I didn't say.

And I would add that human race evolved yeah, but some parts of the world were a bit too busy with our armies bombing the shit out of them last decades, so they no longer have any kind of education because they no longer have the buildings to teach anything... And humans without education are not far from the middle age people.

So what? now religions are like wine?  They are all fucked up, except some were smart enough to adjust to the changing times or lose membership.

Islam is rigid as it was written by a guy nicknamed Allah in the 6th or 7th century, the guy called himself God.   And he put it down: "To all motherfuckers out there, do not try to change my shit. blah,blah...".

So Muslims are stuck.  They cannot just ignore some quotes without ignoring the rest of these scribblings.



Of course not.
You think that the bible you can read today is the same as 600 years ago? And you think christians interpreat it the same way?
Do you realize that the Bible also states how you should kill a woman who cheated on her husband? It's juste that after 2000 years they stopped doing it. But even 100 years ago, thanks to christians, post european countries were treating homosexuality like a disease that must be erased. So don't start stating that Christianity is peaceful but Islam is violent. They're both violent as fuck, but Christianity has the luck to developp itself for 600 more years.

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January 12, 2017, 12:57:02 PM
 #35

......
Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. ......
Almost none of what you wrote is relevant to the situation today.  Islam owns suicide bomber whackjobs, period.  There's no rationalizing about how somehow that's the fault of "the west."  It's not.  It's what they do.  They blow themselves up, often with NO clear purpose or goal. 

It's really quite laughable that you'd try to shrug it off.  Or blame it on things that have zero relation to it.

Sure.
Let's ignore the part where West detroyed entire developed civilizations. Not like it is linked in any way woth Islam extremism.
Ever heard of Iran? 40 years ago they were educated and developped in depth, they had no or nearly no extremism.
Then West decided to take control of this zone and use the country for their own interest. Now it's the the center of one of the major centre of terrorism.

But of course, it's just a coincidence. There is NO WAY that destruction of schools and institutions is linked whatsoever with rise of extremism.
Yeah, you seem to just be making things up.  Secular dictatorship under the Shah, or Theocratic Mullahs running Iran, so what?  My guess would be the mullahs were and are anti-scientific.  Center of terrorism due to them.  They hated the west before they took over, they believe they will own the world and be it's caliphate. 

Basically primitive 6th century medieval warlords with a cleric's robe.
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January 12, 2017, 01:06:58 PM
 #36

......
Good post, yes at the moment it seems to be mostly muslims who are performing despicable acts such as suicide bombing and terrorism. But you rightly say that the West have been doing similar "terrorism" for years, and not only against Middle Eastern countries (anyone remember the IRA bombings?)

And many hundreds of years ago, it was the Christians who were indiscriminately killing during the Crusades.

An important point to make is that this concept of "martyrism" and suicide bombing is an extremely new phenomenon - it only started in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to Western influences on Middle Eastern government. ......
Almost none of what you wrote is relevant to the situation today.  Islam owns suicide bomber whackjobs, period.  There's no rationalizing about how somehow that's the fault of "the west."  It's not.  It's what they do.  They blow themselves up, often with NO clear purpose or goal. 

It's really quite laughable that you'd try to shrug it off.  Or blame it on things that have zero relation to it.

Sure.
Let's ignore the part where West detroyed entire developed civilizations. Not like it is linked in any way woth Islam extremism.
Ever heard of Iran? 40 years ago they were educated and developped in depth, they had no or nearly no extremism.
Then West decided to take control of this zone and use the country for their own interest. Now it's the the center of one of the major centre of terrorism.

But of course, it's just a coincidence. There is NO WAY that destruction of schools and institutions is linked whatsoever with rise of extremism.
Yeah, you seem to just be making things up.  Secular dictatorship under the Shah, or Theocratic Mullahs running Iran, so what?  My guess would be the mullahs were and are anti-scientific.  Center of terrorism due to them.  They hated the west before they took over, they believe they will own the world and be it's caliphate. 

Basically primitive 6th century medieval warlords with a cleric's robe.

Suuuuuuuuuuuure!
Not like the USA had ANYTHING to do with that!
What? USA providing weapons to Irak and Sadam hussen (officialy, I'm not talking about conspiracy theories here) in order to destabilize and isolate Iran. Not like they actively took part in the destruction of Iran. Nor like their implication led to the destruction of peace, institutions and diplomacy.
Iran was in a complicated situation with a popular revolution. And just when they were starting to get their shit together, USA gave weapon, training and money to Alquaida to attack them. Leading to the only possible answer from them: getting nationalist as fuck .

But no, USA DID THAT FOR FREEDOM OF.COURSE! NOT FOR OIL

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January 12, 2017, 01:12:47 PM
 #37

And of course USA patronage of Alquaida is in no way linked to the destabilisation of the whole Middle East or the rise of Islamic extremism! Must be because they're just barbarians! XD

I just love how you chose to forget major facts.
Terrorism is the results of our agressions.
It doesn't mean we can't continue attacking them and invading them of course. War is.part of human history. If you want to make it fair enough. But don't act like you didn't attack first.

US marines are terrorists. Don't forget that. But don't worry, so are French pilots Wink

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January 12, 2017, 01:57:55 PM
 #38

There are muslim that don't have belief on other people they had own business where they want is war because there are getting paid too to create war to make money muslim are the number enemy of all countries where they want to kill people who don't believe in what they figting for.

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January 12, 2017, 01:58:54 PM
 #39

Very normal when a lot of people think so. BECAUSE in an age now, the media generally only preach ABOUT violence, bombings, massacres committed by people in the name of Islam. As terror in paris, Belgium etc. But where the media when Muslim countries are slaughtered, destroyed, massacres of civilians everywhere? They seem to close their eyes and ears. Now Syria is in a state that was devastated, but the world seemed not to care.

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January 12, 2017, 03:22:49 PM
 #40

Very normal when a lot of people think so. BECAUSE in an age now, the media generally only preach ABOUT violence, bombings, massacres committed by people in the name of Islam. As terror in paris, Belgium etc. But where the media when Muslim countries are slaughtered, destroyed, massacres of civilians everywhere? They seem to close their eyes and ears. Now Syria is in a state that was devastated, but the world seemed not to care.
No, Islam terrorism was around before.  How about the 400+ terrorist bombings that Yassir Arafat was involved in?

My opinion is that Islam terror acts are explicitly intended to attract media attention.  So they are USING THE MEDIA, therefore don't "blame it on the media" that these get reported.

You confuse cause and effect, don't you?
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