95% lol. No chance. SegWit is now dead.

[franky1]

I don't like how much we all have to wait around, and campaign, and beg these miners to signal SegWit. In the end, if they delay or reject changes that most of the users and the technical community support, then we need to consider changing the POW and removing them from the network.

If we don't at least seriously consider this option, we might start to see miners more aggressively reject other new features in the future. It makes no sense to give veto power on soft forks to a handful of guys living in some totalitarian hellhole (who knows what their motivations are or will be in future).

Changing Pow will hurt short term but it will be good on long term, removing those clown from BTC and allowing progress is indeed good, currently BU is at 17 % I think a divorce is unavoidable we should go both our way let's them have central coin in China !

I know that there are some alternative of PoW, but as far as i know, PoW is the most suitable and secure for bitcoin. I doubt we will see something better than PoW anytime soon

You don't change PoW for PoS or anything else, you change the PoW algorithm ie: Keccak (SHA3) instead of the current SHA 256 having the side effect of turning ASIC in Chinese data centers into nothing more than space heaters...

ok lets play your scenario out shall we..

you do this massive change.. thus needing to also knock down the difficulty back down to low numbers that a gpu can hand again..(security risk again)
but guess what ASIC manufacturers would have already of made a SHA3 ASIC... and the ASICs continue winning.

meaning.. it has not changed a thing. apart from a month of drama until things are back in the same place as before

seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented have not thought about it very hard.
seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented have not actually understood the problem
seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented have not actually run any scenarios
seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented only care about giving control over to blockstream but dont realise what would actually happen or the downsides of changing things just for the sake of appeasing blockstream commercial services

[Nicolas Tesla]

I don't like how much we all have to wait around, and campaign, and beg these miners to signal SegWit. In the end, if they delay or reject changes that most of the users and the technical community support, then we need to consider changing the POW and removing them from the network.

If we don't at least seriously consider this option, we might start to see miners more aggressively reject other new features in the future. It makes no sense to give veto power on soft forks to a handful of guys living in some totalitarian hellhole (who knows what their motivations are or will be in future).

Changing Pow will hurt short term but it will be good on long term, removing those clown from BTC and allowing progress is indeed good, currently BU is at 17 % I think a divorce is unavoidable we should go both our way let's them have central coin in China !

I know that there are some alternative of PoW, but as far as i know, PoW is the most suitable and secure for bitcoin. I doubt we will see something better than PoW anytime soon

You don't change PoW for PoS or anything else, you change the PoW algorithm ie: Keccak (SHA3) instead of the current SHA 256 having the side effect of turning ASIC in Chinese data centers into nothing more than space heaters...

ok lets play your scenario out shall we..

you do this massive change.. thus needing to also knock down the difficulty back down to low numbers that a gpu can hand again..(security risk again)
but guess what ASIC manufacturers would have already of made a SHA3 ASIC... and the ASICs continue winning.

meaning.. it has not changed a thing. apart from a month of drama until things are back in the same place as before

seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented have not thought about it very hard.
seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented have not actually understood the problem
seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented have not actually run any scenarios
seems all the people that are desperate to get segwit implemented only care about giving control over to blockstream but dont realise what would actually happen or the downsides of changing things just for the sake of appeasing blockstream commercial services

It would take time to create a new SHA3 chip, we could have also a different set of miners than roger Ver and Jihan's Cartels, notice that SW can be implemented in script algo too... Litecoin is doing it...

Seems big blockist spread FUD and misinformation...
Seems they don't understand how BTC work...
Seems they will get huge losses...
Seems they are being played by Chinese Gov and Jihan in a war of attrition by China so she can control BTC entirely after eliminating Core and having centralized everything on Chinese soil

[franky1]

It would take time to create a new SHA3 chip, we could have also a different set of miners than roger Ver and Jihan's Cartels, notice that SW can be implemented in script algo too... Litecoin is doing it...

Seems big blockist spread FUD and misinformation...
Seems they don't understand how BTC work...
Seems they will get huge losses...
Seems they are being played by Chinese Gov and Jihan in a war of attrition by China so she can control BTC entirely after eliminating Core and having centralized everything on Chinese soil

it takes just months to manufacture a chip.

it takes years months to announce, implement code and then more months to then get activation (consent) for the change.
do you think manufacturers would wait till the last minute of activation day before making an asic.. or would they begin work months earlier when a change is announced.

think rationally.

seems you have eaten the scripted racist rhetoric. and not actually done individual research into the truth.
maybe best you spend more time doing independant research and come to your own opinion then just joining the r/bitcoin script following regime of just repeating what others have said.

come on think rationally. seems you think location has meaning. when infact its who sets the rules that counts.
the real centralisation is where 12 banker paid devs and their 90 spellchecking interns thing they should be kings and central to bitcoin.. rather than having diversity

while those at blockstream are telling you to look at china. they want you to just look away from what they are actually doing and blindly(beause your not checking) "trust" them

[franky1]

to mitigate spam attack is easy. it does not require large fee's and the hope a spammer will stop. while that same crap fee rules hinder honest and ethical people.

after all if they think raising the fee will make spammers wait an hour+ instead of just sending in the very next block, they are fooling themselves. its simple. just have a tx maturity. so funds cant be respent straight away. that way only coins with some amount of confirms get in and everyone gets a fair go.

after all theres not many reasons for normal people to move funds every ~10 minutes, repeating for hours non stop. so why let the fees jump up while still spamming the network by letting it happen rather than let the transactions cool down a bit, to give other transactors a chance to get theirs confirmed honestly

EG change the 'priority' calculation to really emphasise the age more.
EG add a 1-6 block maturity period (like the block reward)
EG let the fee increase more if people repeatedly send coins less than a couple confirms old.

meaning someone spending only once a day gets treated better than someone trying to spam every block

its easy to think of many many ways to mitigate spam, without needing to use/abuse fee's to achieve it and where fee's have the actual intent for their current purpose. of hurting spammers

[Nicolas Tesla]

It would take time to create a new SHA3 chip, we could have also a different set of miners than roger Ver and Jihan's Cartels, notice that SW can be implemented in script algo too... Litecoin is doing it...

Seems big blockist spread FUD and misinformation...
Seems they don't understand how BTC work...
Seems they will get huge losses...
Seems they are being played by Chinese Gov and Jihan in a war of attrition by China so she can control BTC entirely after eliminating Core and having centralized everything on Chinese soil

it takes just months to manufacture a chip.

it takes years months to announce, implement code and then more months to then get activation (consent) for the change.
do you think manufacturers would wait till the last minute of activation day before making an asic.. or would they begin work months earlier when a change is announced.

think rationally.

seems you have eaten the scripted racist rhetoric. and not actually done individual research into the truth.
maybe best you spend more time doing independant research and come to your own opinion then just joining the r/bitcoin script following regime of just repeating what others have said.

come on think rationally. seems you think location has meaning. when infact its who sets the rules that counts.
the real centralisation is where 12 banker paid devs and their 90 spellchecking interns thing they should be kings and central to bitcoin.. rather than having diversity

while those at blockstream are telling you to look at china. they want you to just look away from what they are actually doing and blindly(beause your not checking) "trust" them

The codes can be ninja developed, i know Core devs have that option on the table... (and may have already some code ready in case things goes south) Actually it could be fast, faster than doing the ASIC manufacturing back...

Also if we can have a different set of miners than your Roger ver and Jihan friends its all good even if they are Chinese, i dont care !

I don't buy your racist SJW argument, my own GF is Chinese but that doesn't impeach me to be critical of china their culture and their gov, i can think rationally and openly thanks for your concern.

The location centralization matters especially when 70 % of hash-power is inside some country with a traditionally more heavy handed government...
You will say "But no they are individual miners" no they are mainly farms controlled by a few guys...

Please stop your conspiracy theory on Blockstream/Core its not like that you gonna convince me (quite the contrary).

[franky1]

The codes can be ninja developed, i know Core devs have that option on the table... (and may have already some code ready in case things goes south) Actually it could be fast, faster than doing the ASIC manufacturing back...

Also if we can have a different set of miners than your Roger ver and Jihan friends its all good even if they are Chinese, i dont care !

I don't buy your racist SJW argument, my own GF is Chinese but that doesn't impeach me to be critical of china their culture and their gov, i can think rationally and openly thanks for your concern.

The location centralization matters especially when 70 % of hash-power is inside some country with a traditionally more heavy handed government...
You will say "But no they are individual miners" no they are mainly farms controlled by a few guys...

Please stop your conspiracy theory on Blockstream/Core its not like that you gonna convince me (quite the contrary).

when you throw out statements that are repeats of other people. i can tell your not checking what your saying.
70% chinese LOL. did you even check. by this i mean properly.
or just copying someone you "trust" because they said it on /r/bitcoin.

put it this way.
antpool sits at 18%.. but less than 10% is actually in china
also. slush pool is managed by a guy from thailand. where the hashrate is a mix of different people
BTCC has stratums in many countries
f2pool says 12.6 but is actually under 12% in china.
BW is not solely in china either.

and now the big thing.
even if they are in a country. there are 1.3billion people in that country. all separated by thousands of miles of land mass, separated by different companies and all the pools are competing against each other.
if they wanted to collude they would be in one pool.

all pools do is collate the data. it is the nodes that validate it meets the rules.
if pools attempted something the nodes disagreed with. then the pools attempt would get orphaned. boom gone, bye bye. pool wasted time for nothing trying something that doesnt fit the rules of consensus

so dont even try to use the fake "hey everyone look at the pools they are the government". especially if you have not looked passed the repeated empty speaches of the Fudsters that actually want to centralise bitcoin into LN commercial hubs, by distracting people with empty drama

[Quickseller]

The majority of bitcoin core developers want to stick with methods of scaling that are much safer. it doesn't make sense to go along with what a small minority of devs want

The question of what is safe is a person's opinion.

[franky1]

The majority of bitcoin core developers want to stick with methods of scaling that are much safer. it doesn't make sense to go along with what a small minority of devs want

the minority (blockstream paid) set the rules, they after all are the administrators of the mailing list, IRC, github and tech category of this forum. its the majority (unpaid interns) that follow the blockstream devs desires out of loyalty, trust and self desire that if they show their helpfulness to the blockstream crew, then hopefully blockstream will employ them

i understand your opinion of how things 'should be' but reality is much different

we are no longer in the independent codebase area of 2009-2013. things have changed since big fiat pockets have started throwing money and employment terms in dev's directions

2013-2014 is transparently clear as the time when it all flipped around. and it has not been the same since

[Anduck]

negotiation and realignment of group is going on,

It is dead.  People don't want it.  You can pour sugar on it all day long - it aint gonna get better.  It was made to enable that piece of shit LN which is nothing more than an alt coin scam by Blockstream.  

Some people are just too stupid to understand these things - or use Google. Or are you one of his paid "messengers"?

[Nicolas Tesla]

It just doesn't matter all those infrastructure are controlled by a few chinese who live in china, tomorrow if PRC decide to censor them they will just obey period !

The PRC is fully sovereign on those 1.3 billion people so you argument about being apart from thousand kilometer doesn't make sense, they even have soldier in the middle of nowhere in Xinjian !

The PRC is sovereign no matter that you are in Beijing, Shanghai or Chengdu last time i crossed customs in airports i saw the same PRC soldier and police no matter where i was

> all pools do is collate the data. it is the nodes that validate it meets the rules.
if pools attempted something the nodes disagreed with. then the pools attempt would get orphaned. boom gone, bye bye. pool wasted time for nothing trying something that doesn't fit the rules of consensus.

We fully agree here, that's why BU have no future, more than 50 % of nodes are SW and still up !

> so dont even try to use the fake "hey everyone look at the pools they are the government". especially if you have not looked passed the repeated empty speaches of the Fudsters that actually want to centralise bitcoin into LN commercial hubs, by distracting people with empty drama

First like i said Gov is fully sovereign on Chinese individuals second those pools are controlled by a few guy in china even if they have some server oversea they still control it.

LN are decentralized with low barrier to entry and can be run on Tor, try to censor that !

Well i stop there it seems to be a waste of time and getting trolled is not my cup of tea.

[franky1]

more than 50 % of nodes are SW and still up !

nah its less than 46% are explicitly voting for.. and as you should know the 46% are only implicitly voting without knowing why. so logically less are actually explicitly voting for it.

also some of those 46% are also people hoping gmaxwell, luke jr stick to their word of eventually doing a dynamic block code released like they promised in 2015-2016.

First like i said Gov is fully sovereign on Chinese individuals second those pools are controlled by a few guy in china even if they have some server oversea they still control it.

LN are decentralized with low barrier to entry and can be run on Tor, try to censor that !

Well i stop there it seems to be a waste of time and getting trolled is not my cup of tea.

you are just reading the glossy leaflet. try understanding LN properly and the things LN code has in it to tweak it towards hubs.
its more centralised than you think,

even if you have a private channel with another person(non LN hub connected.. essentially just a plain multisig) you are automatically no longer using the permissionless ethos of bitcoin. you are required to get authorisation by the other party (dual signing).
but if you are in an LN hub and hop network, then your even more stuck into the terms of the hub and requirements of permissions of others just to move your value.
its worth you running some scenarios with an objective logical hat on and not a fanboy hat

should you do some research you will learn that these authorised payments come with terms and conditions. (CLTV=similar to banks 3-5day funds available / block reward maturity) .. (CSV revokes = similar to bankers chargebacks)

its time you stop repeating the sales pitch you have read else where (everything you have said is not original) and try researching beyond the words you have been taught to repeat.

but please enjoy your cup of tea and use the time to not think up some silly insult or fud doomsday you remember reading elsewhere. and instead take a step back and do some independent research.

[Viscount]

Well with my limited knowledge, I think SegWit is a good thing, I've upgraded my node to 0.13.2, and I block classic and unlimited nodes. Do I need to do anything else?

I'm holding back on my use of Bitcoin at the moment, but I want to use it for domain name sales payments in the future, and I want to use the multi-sig option to perform Escrow functions. This has become more urgent now that Escrow.com has started to support PayPal.

So when is it going to be safe to start using SegWit transactions?

your actively blocking classic and unlimited nodes?

so you dont want diverse decentralisation.

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm Bitcoin, so of course everyone, who want the prosperity of decentralisation and Bitcoin, should oppose these despicable rats by blocking classic unlimited and other hardforks

[RawDog]

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm Bitcoin,

You seek to harm Bitcoin.  Why would you say such a dumb thing without any evidence?  Because you are a moron.  typical of Core lovers.

Besides, SegWit and LN are altcoins - not bitcoin.  Please stop being so confused.  Core is working on altcoins.  8MB blocks is Bitcoin.  

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm stupid altcoins SegWit and LN, -  that is a true fact.  

[Viscount]

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm Bitcoin,

Why would you say such a dumb thing without any evidence?  

Why are you so jumpy? You can simply google it if you want. But of course you will not because you already know it. Just say how many ver and andressen pay you for your lie

[Viscount]

Unlimited and Classic are HARDFORKs. The moment they've been implemented they become altcoins and go to shit like other altcoins and Bitcoin will flourish like always 

[RawDog]

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm Bitcoin,

Why would you say such a dumb thing without any evidence?  

Why are you so jumpy? You can simply google it if you want. But of course you will not because you already know it. Just say how many ver and andressen pay you for your lie

I did Google it.  Google said you are a fucking worthless liar.  There are no places where it says Ver is trying to harm Bitcoin.  He is however tying to save Bitcoin from asshole proprietary altcoin dicks at Blockstream.  How much are you paid? 

Why am I so jumpy?, dumbshits like you keep following those idiots.  Too many people trying to turn the Bitcoin protocol into their private altcoin. 

[Viscount]

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm Bitcoin,

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm stupid altcoins SegWit and LN, -  that is a true fact.  

Why are you so incompetent? you should read more. SegWit is softfork NOT HARDFORK like Classic and Unlimited. And Lightning is upgrade for Bitcoin from best possible developers in cryptoworld.
So if Ver and Andressen seek to harm Lightning they seek to harm bitcoin. Also wide known fact that Andressen work for banksters who are afraid of Bitcoin and decentralisation.

[RawDog]

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm Bitcoin,

Roger Ver and Gavin Andressen seek to harm stupid altcoins SegWit and LN, -  that is a true fact.  

Why are you so incompetent? you should read more. SegWit is softfork NOT HARDFORK like Classic and Unlimited. And Lightning is upgrade for Bitcoin from best possible developers in cryptoworld.
So if Ver and Andressen seek to harm Lightning they seek to harm bitcoin. Also wide known fact that Andressen work for banksters who are afraid of Bitcoin and decentralisation.

I need a far more intelligent person to argue with than you.  You are too boring.  It gives me a headache.  Please set your keyboard on fire and stop typing.  You clearly are a fanboy who wants to suck Blockstream's dick and have no understanding of cryptocurrency.

[Viscount]

 There are no places where it says Ver is trying to harm Bitcoin.  

Google better you can't even google and trying to argue about Bitcoin and decentralisation. Just like two chicks Ver and Andressen trying to compete with professionals like core around.

[Viscount]

I need a far more intelligent person to argue with than you.  You are too boring.  It gives me a headache.  Please set your keyboard on fire and stop typing.  You clearly are a fanboy who wants to suck Blockstream's dick and have no understanding of cryptocurrency.

See you have nothing else to say. And start to curse. And everyone else also see it