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Author Topic: Why would banks use a blockchain?  (Read 2549 times)
bitart
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February 27, 2017, 09:45:43 PM
 #41

I think if the banks will be allowed by the governments then they will be allowed to use blochchain and then they will start to create their wallets and will accept bitcoin for their use etc. If they will collect enough data for themselves and will be satisfied with it then I do not think that they will need to show their transactions or the transactions of their clients to other people so they may tr to hide or if everything was the same as now then they will not be able to hide bitcoin transactions with them of their clients.
There's no point for the banks to create a wallet and to start accepting bitcoin. Banks have their own group of curencies they accept, they keep the accounts in those currencies. They don't need a new currency at all.
What would be the blockchain technology good for them? If you want to send a transaction intrabank, it's usually done in a second, and it's usually free with the banks' current systems. If you want to send a transaction in the same country but using different banks in the same currency, nowdays it's just max. an hour to complete. If you want to send a transaction in different currency, that needs time (2-3 days) to arrive to the different country, to a totally different bank.
Banks need to speed up this kind of process. But, they don't need a new currency (bitcoin) for it, they just need a quicker system handling the transactions between banks. If banks could change SWIFT system to a new one, based on a closed blockchain, they would have the new and really quick, but still reliable system. The problem is solved, without bitcoin, but with blockchain technology.
Another typical solution would be the share market on exchanges. Nowdays if you want to buy shares, it clears in 2-3 days time (e.g. if you want to bus shares from overseas). If you could use a blockchain based technology for it, buying-selling shares and registering the ownership would take half an hour. It could speed up the current system. These are just a few possibilities, but there are a plenty of them.

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February 27, 2017, 09:54:41 PM
 #42

I think if the banks will be allowed by the governments then they will be allowed to use blochchain and then they will start to create their wallets and will accept bitcoin for their use etc. If they will collect enough data for themselves and will be satisfied with it then I do not think that they will need to show their transactions or the transactions of their clients to other people so they may tr to hide or if everything was the same as now then they will not be able to hide bitcoin transactions with them of their clients.
There's no point for the banks to create a wallet and to start accepting bitcoin. Banks have their own group of curencies they accept, they keep the accounts in those currencies. They don't need a new currency at all.
What would be the blockchain technology good for them? If you want to send a transaction intrabank, it's usually done in a second, and it's usually free with the banks' current systems. If you want to send a transaction in the same country but using different banks in the same currency, nowdays it's just max. an hour to complete. If you want to send a transaction in different currency, that needs time (2-3 days) to arrive to the different country, to a totally different bank.
Banks need to speed up this kind of process. But, they don't need a new currency (bitcoin) for it, they just need a quicker system handling the transactions between banks. If banks could change SWIFT system to a new one, based on a closed blockchain, they would have the new and really quick, but still reliable system. The problem is solved, without bitcoin, but with blockchain technology.
Another typical solution would be the share market on exchanges. Nowdays if you want to buy shares, it clears in 2-3 days time (e.g. if you want to bus shares from overseas). If you could use a blockchain based technology for it, buying-selling shares and registering the ownership would take half an hour. It could speed up the current system. These are just a few possibilities, but there are a plenty of them.


I think there is a point for the bank to accept bitcoin, that is to ride the wave.  Banks is always updated with  what is trending in a finance industry.  They know what is profitable and which one is best to invest to.  Probably, in my opinion, some banks had already invested in Bitcoin.  They are just hiding it.



Blockchain is like a ledger so definitely bank will  use it since it will be their advantage if they do.

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iv4n
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February 27, 2017, 10:11:43 PM
 #43

the blockchain is not just a technology its a revolution because it will change the financial sector in recent years as many country including china and Indi ae researching on this technology and alrady china had started to develop something lke bitcoin useing technology like blockchain . so banks and other sectors would definotely adoptp such technology.

I share same point of view, blockchain is a revolution and bitcoin can make changes in current financial system. But not everything that is better and more useful is adopted, you always have people who will fight against evolution.
Blockchain is for everyone, by that its for banks as well. Problem with banks is that they work just for profit, and if they think they can earn from that they will adopt it for sure.


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February 27, 2017, 10:32:23 PM
 #44

the blockchain is not just a technology its a revolution because it will change the financial sector in recent years as many country including china and Indi ae researching on this technology and alrady china had started to develop something lke bitcoin useing technology like blockchain . so banks and other sectors would definotely adoptp such technology.

I share same point of view, blockchain is a revolution and bitcoin can make changes in current financial system. But not everything that is better and more useful is adopted, you always have people who will fight against evolution.
Blockchain is for everyone, by that its for banks as well. Problem with banks is that they work just for profit, and if they think they can earn from that they will adopt it for sure.
Blockchain is not about bitcoin, you can see the hyper ledger project. The blokchain is about the automation of the financial system. The problem is blockchain can be a threat for the bitcoin itself. i just take an example such as the hyper ledger project. Does it makes sense to be a threat for bitcoin in the future.

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February 28, 2017, 05:45:16 AM
 #45

Why do everyone incorporate blockchain and profit in the same sentence .I am sure everyone is wrong in understanding the concept.Banks use blockchain because it is easy to maintain and the logs cannot be manipulated if they start using a block chain and it wont necessarily be an open block chain,they can have an internal structure.
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February 28, 2017, 05:51:29 AM
 #46

Why do banks use blockchains? Because most people don't understand what it means, and it's great PR to show they are moving with the times. It also gives them a chance to dump the toxic debt that is associated with the current virtual fiat currencies.
It is entirely different from what you think it is,blockchain and virtual currencies are entirely different and banks are not using blockchain to build a currency of their own ,instead they will be having their transaction records in the blockchain and it will be a closed one without any doubt.
Why would you need a block chain in a closed system?  What advantage does it give you over your current system?  The fact it is de-centralised means nothing if you are using it in-house. 
Block chain can be termed as a permanent database storage system and why wouldn't a bank use the latest concept and use it .You do not need a huge infrastructure to start that and the transactions will be transparent and government or any investigating team can follow things up pretty fast with the help of an open ledger .These are some of the things that comes to my mind and the advantages of block chain are limitless .


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bitart
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February 28, 2017, 08:51:19 PM
 #47

Why do banks use blockchains? Because most people don't understand what it means, and it's great PR to show they are moving with the times. It also gives them a chance to dump the toxic debt that is associated with the current virtual fiat currencies.
It is entirely different from what you think it is,blockchain and virtual currencies are entirely different and banks are not using blockchain to build a currency of their own ,instead they will be having their transaction records in the blockchain and it will be a closed one without any doubt.
Why would you need a block chain in a closed system?  What advantage does it give you over your current system?  The fact it is de-centralised means nothing if you are using it in-house. 
Block chain can be termed as a permanent database storage system and why wouldn't a bank use the latest concept and use it .You do not need a huge infrastructure to start that and the transactions will be transparent and government or any investigating team can follow things up pretty fast with the help of an open ledger .These are some of the things that comes to my mind and the advantages of block chain are limitless .
People use banks not to reveal their financial situation (account balance, transactions history etc.). If you use an open ledger, the information is not private anymore. Banks can use a closed ledger to maintain all the neccessary transactions, and it won't be a problem for the governments (and for the tax authorities) because they will have access to the closed ledger of course.

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February 28, 2017, 09:08:14 PM
 #48

It's because you don't know the difference between bitcoin, open blockchain and closed blockchain.
In this case, bank will adopt closed blockchain where only authorized people can access/modify blockchain so only bank who can see your bank account and the details.

Maybe an experienced member could give us more info about it.

I do not know much about it, but closed blockchain is able to access by particular people, and open blockchain is what bitcoin uses.

so it will make banks easier to record the data because sometimes the employer makes mistake in counting the money.


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February 28, 2017, 09:24:22 PM
 #49

Why do everyone incorporate blockchain and profit in the same sentence .I am sure everyone is wrong in understanding the concept.Banks use blockchain because it is easy to maintain and the logs cannot be manipulated if they start using a block chain and it wont necessarily be an open block chain,they can have an internal structure.

I agree that blockchain and profit are two different things.  Blockchain is like a ledger and more likely bank will have a private ledger (blockchain) if they are to use it.  Though I can say blockchain can be possibly manipulated if it is private and no one can verify it and all nodes connected to it approved the manipulation.



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March 01, 2017, 12:04:29 AM
 #50

It's because you don't know the difference between bitcoin, open blockchain and closed blockchain.
In this case, bank will adopt closed blockchain where only authorized people can access/modify blockchain so only bank who can see your bank account and the details.

Maybe an experienced member could give us more info about it.

I do not know much about it, but closed blockchain is able to access by particular people, and open blockchain is what bitcoin uses.

so it will make banks easier to record the data because sometimes the employer makes mistake in counting the money.
I just think if the blockchain can remove a lot of the middleman, blockchain have various advantages.
You mean about public and private blockchain. Fully automation in the future.
https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/08/07/on-public-and-private-blockchains/

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March 01, 2017, 07:32:59 AM
 #51

Blokchain is a threat to the banks.
Banks act as a third party to regulate the trade between 2 people
 and charge their commission.
Where as in block chain the  people who have to do the transaction only are present and no third party.
This is a threat to the banks.
If bitcoins in the coming years progresses in the same way than banks may start closing.
And at a time there may be no banks.
But banks can use blokchain to purchase bitcoins form the money they have and sell it at a higher price later and earn.
Banks might secretly also may set up mining computers in  their offices and earn then.
Thus   there are very few things a bank can do with blockchain

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March 01, 2017, 11:36:49 AM
 #52

Blokchain is not a threat to the banks but an opportunity. Some people argue that blockchain could lead to the end of the traditionnal banking system as we know them. The idea that a number of banking functions can tomorrow disappear in favor of using blockchain is a possible future, but everything depends on the use case and I don't think it's going to happen to see a 100% use. Banks are just turning it as an opportunity by using the technology to adapt within current systems, developing blockchains private or semi-private, or by partnering with start-ups of the blockchain ecosystem.

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March 01, 2017, 11:49:09 AM
 #53

Why do everyone incorporate blockchain and profit in the same sentence .I am sure everyone is wrong in understanding the concept.Banks use blockchain because it is easy to maintain and the logs cannot be manipulated if they start using a block chain and it wont necessarily be an open block chain,they can have an internal structure.

Why do the banks wanted to upgrade their system? The answer is not just about accuracy but the answer will lead to profit. Why are there banks, the banks are existing because of profit. Banks always mean business and business means profit. And so you cannot separate their integration of blockchain technology to profit since they are alive and operating because they are gaining profit.

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March 01, 2017, 01:02:40 PM
 #54

The only answer is profit. Everything that banks do is only because they see the opportunity to earn money and make profit. They see in blockchain new technology they could easily use in they business, lower the costs and run profitable business. Simple as that. But the fact that banks will implement blockchain technology will not influence Bitcoin in negative way.

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March 01, 2017, 01:20:28 PM
 #55

They have no choice to jump in the train if they won't to follow the trend. better for them to use instead to be obselete in some years from now. It can aslo i guess reduce their costs. (operations, maintenance, ect)

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March 01, 2017, 01:40:10 PM
 #56

Blokchain is a threat to the banks.
Banks act as a third party to regulate the trade between 2 people
 and charge their commission.
Where as in block chain the  people who have to do the transaction only are present and no third party.
This is a threat to the banks.
If bitcoins in the coming years progresses in the same way than banks may start closing.
And at a time there may be no banks.
But banks can use blokchain to purchase bitcoins form the money they have and sell it at a higher price later and earn.
Banks might secretly also may set up mining computers in  their offices and earn then.
Thus   there are very few things a bank can do with blockchain

May be you have miss something or you are a bit confused about bitcoin and blockchain. Blockchain is a blessing that is, a gift and not a threat even for the banks too. Blockchain can operate not only with bitcoin but for many other usages like as smart contracts, digital assets, records etc. Banks are welcome to buy bitcoins like as any other organization and individuals too. So they can sell their bitcoin stash anytime they want like the rest investors. There is no reason banks secretly to mine bitcoins and is completely mindless running mining software from their offices. The mining software is free for everyone even he wants to use the GPU of his laptop to mine what? bitcoins only in 2009. If banks want they can invest money to create mining pools like as any entrepreneur. On the other side they really want blockchain because as an idea is revolutionary, innovative and cost effective as some forum members already have posted.
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March 01, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
 #57

Why do banks use blockchains? Because most people don't understand what it means, and it's great PR to show they are moving with the times. It also gives them a chance to dump the toxic debt that is associated with the current virtual fiat currencies.
It is entirely different from what you think it is,blockchain and virtual currencies are entirely different and banks are not using blockchain to build a currency of their own ,instead they will be having their transaction records in the blockchain and it will be a closed one without any doubt.
Why would you need a block chain in a closed system?  What advantage does it give you over your current system?  The fact it is de-centralised means nothing if you are using it in-house. 
Block chain can be termed as a permanent database storage system and why wouldn't a bank use the latest concept and use it .You do not need a huge infrastructure to start that and the transactions will be transparent and government or any investigating team can follow things up pretty fast with the help of an open ledger .These are some of the things that comes to my mind and the advantages of block chain are limitless .
i think currently the banks do not feel the need to use it but as time pass we can see that the modern countries are adopting the technology and that is why we can say that after some time all the countries the modern or the backward will start start using bitcoin. because it is the need of the time.


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Carlsen
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March 01, 2017, 04:27:51 PM
 #58

Why do banks use blockchains? Because most people don't understand what it means, and it's great PR to show they are moving with the times. It also gives them a chance to dump the toxic debt that is associated with the current virtual fiat currencies.
It is entirely different from what you think it is,blockchain and virtual currencies are entirely different and banks are not using blockchain to build a currency of their own ,instead they will be having their transaction records in the blockchain and it will be a closed one without any doubt.
Why would you need a block chain in a closed system?  What advantage does it give you over your current system?  The fact it is de-centralised means nothing if you are using it in-house. 
Block chain can be termed as a permanent database storage system and why wouldn't a bank use the latest concept and use it .You do not need a huge infrastructure to start that and the transactions will be transparent and government or any investigating team can follow things up pretty fast with the help of an open ledger .These are some of the things that comes to my mind and the advantages of block chain are limitless .
i think currently the banks do not feel the need to use it but as time pass we can see that the modern countries are adopting the technology and that is why we can say that after some time all the countries the modern or the backward will start start using bitcoin. because it is the need of the time.

I can imagine that the usage of a blockchain brings a big plus of security to banks.
Bitcoin which is based on blockchain technology is very difficult to hack.
Banks could adapt this system to their own necessaritys and make the digital flow of money even more safe from attacks.

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March 01, 2017, 04:30:55 PM
 #59

I have thought a bit about that question. At a first glance, it makes no sense for a bank to use neither a centralized blockchain - because it would offer no advantage to traditional database accounting systems - nor an open blockchain with PoW or other consensus mechanism - because they would give up control about the transactions and expose them to certain risks.

An interesting post has been written in the Ethereum blog. There are two main categories where "restricted" blockchains could make sense.

First as an "inter-banking" transfer mechanism ("consortium blockchain") where the trust between institutions can be lowered a little bit (blocks must be signed by the majority of connected institutions, but not by all, and one malbehaviouring node - e.g. after a hack - would not be able to bring down the system).

And then as a private "in-bank" blockchain - but such private blockchains would not be actually very different from the traditional databases, only that they would add a kind of "cryptographic proof" for the state of the system. It would be a kind of additional security layer. The author of the blog post, however, thinks that with less complex measures like libsnark that could also be achieved.

What would have to be analyzed if these two ways really represent a more efficient approach to security than already known traditional security mechanisms. I think the real benefit of the blockchain is that it enables decentralized systems to work - so "bank applications" would only be a side-effect and not be at all important for Bitcoin.

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bitart
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March 01, 2017, 07:21:21 PM
 #60

I have thought a bit about that question. At a first glance, it makes no sense for a bank to use neither a centralized blockchain - because it would offer no advantage to traditional database accounting systems - nor an open blockchain with PoW or other consensus mechanism - because they would give up control about the transactions and expose them to certain risks.

An interesting post has been written in the Ethereum blog. There are two main categories where "restricted" blockchains could make sense.

First as an "inter-banking" transfer mechanism ("consortium blockchain") where the trust between institutions can be lowered a little bit (blocks must be signed by the majority of connected institutions, but not by all, and one malbehaviouring node - e.g. after a hack - would not be able to bring down the system).

And then as a private "in-bank" blockchain - but such private blockchains would not be actually very different from the traditional databases, only that they would add a kind of "cryptographic proof" for the state of the system. It would be a kind of additional security layer. The author of the blog post, however, thinks that with less complex measures like libsnark that could also be achieved.

What would have to be analyzed if these two ways really represent a more efficient approach to security than already known traditional security mechanisms. I think the real benefit of the blockchain is that it enables decentralized systems to work - so "bank applications" would only be a side-effect and not be at all important for Bitcoin.
I've read the linked ethereum post and found it pretty interesting, thanks.
In connection with the above mentioned in-bank blockchain, I don't think that a kind of solution like that will be implemented at all. My opinion is that banks don't need a blockchain like solution just for intenal purposes. They already have their own system that's accurate, fast and has security functions implemented. In-bank transfers usually complete in a second, or even less, it's just modifying 2 values in a database.
Making the system redundant (2 server farms in the country) can provide enough security for disaster recovery purposes with a proper backup procedure implemented and used. If they create a new blockchain solution to eliminate the 2 server farms and they provide dedicated computers in each branch to keep the database always up-to-date and updated, they can save the price of the server farms but current blockchain solutions will lead to slower service, which is unacceptable now.
Blockchain solution is needed in case of inter-bank transfers because the current system is relatively slow. In my country, transfers (same currency, same country) completes in an hour usually, but in peak time it's a bit more. This could be done faster using a restricted blockchain, used by the banks in the same country. Blockchain for international transfers can be a real challenge.

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