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Author Topic: Confirmation Time is now not a problem at local shops. Buy without any wait  (Read 2276 times)
Superways
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January 16, 2017, 10:00:05 PM
 #1

A minutes ago an idea came to my mind and I hope it will not be wrong.

Most of the people say that buying with bitcoins at local shops will be bothering as they will have to wait for longer at the local shop for the confirmation of their payment in bitcoin to the shop/store. But one thing is in my mind that if a person pay a suitable miner fee for a transaction then that transaction cannot be cancelled. So if a person will pay in front of the shopkeeper and the shopkeeper will know that the person have paid a suitable fees then he will provide the good at zero confirmation (without waiting for any confirmation).

What do you think about that idea?

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January 16, 2017, 10:09:09 PM
 #2

It's true, Bitcoin transactions with a 0.0002 fee are confirmed very quickly. And even credit card payments can be reversed many days later. So even though the transaction is unconfirmed, it's still received "instantly".



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January 16, 2017, 10:15:22 PM
 #3

I am not sure about how it works but what aboutnif a double spend happens ?
I habe only heard of double spending I dont know how its done.

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January 16, 2017, 11:04:20 PM
 #4

I am not sure about how it works but what aboutnif a double spend happens ?
I habe only heard of double spending I dont know how its done.

I agree there is still a chance of a double spend attack even if you paid the right tx fee.  Double spend is done by sending another transaction that has higher fee and be confirmed faster than the previous transaction.  I think having Bitcoin notes or physical bitcoin money can solve this but there are more risk involved on that and need a centralized system to make sure that the private key of each physical coin is not compromised.



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January 16, 2017, 11:04:55 PM
 #5

Just ponder if you have to make up to 10 transactions per day how much you would paid on those transaction? and besides can everyone do that? then mining will be more profitable then


     
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lukew
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January 16, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
 #6

It wouldn't be hard to backup your wallet, make the payment, then restore the backup and add a huge miners fee and empty it.

I'm working on a project to make transactions faster when using Bitcoin in shops. It's a long way off and probably not to every-bodys taste though.
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January 16, 2017, 11:34:57 PM
 #7

Try and sell that to the average merchant. Wont work.
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January 16, 2017, 11:40:23 PM
 #8

Try and sell that to the average merchant. Wont work.

It could work for online, seller can package product ready to ship, but in that case they'd just wait for confirmations anyway.
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January 16, 2017, 11:41:46 PM
 #9

I am not sure about how it works but what aboutnif a double spend happens ?
I habe only heard of double spending I dont know how its done.

I agree there is still a chance of a double spend attack even if you paid the right tx fee.  Double spend is done by sending another transaction that has higher fee and be confirmed faster than the previous transaction.  I think having Bitcoin notes or physical bitcoin money can solve this but there are more risk involved on that and need a centralized system to make sure that the private key of each physical coin is not compromised.

I agree with your opinion, lack of double spend transaction
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January 16, 2017, 11:52:07 PM
 #10

I am not sure about how it works but what aboutnif a double spend happens ?
I habe only heard of double spending I dont know how its done.
Read this. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending

The confirmation or validation method was resolving it.

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January 16, 2017, 11:57:14 PM
 #11

A minutes ago an idea came to my mind and I hope it will not be wrong.

Most of the people say that buying with bitcoins at local shops will be bothering as they will have to wait for longer at the local shop for the confirmation of their payment in bitcoin to the shop/store. But one thing is in my mind that if a person pay a suitable miner fee for a transaction then that transaction cannot be cancelled. So if a person will pay in front of the shopkeeper and the shopkeeper will know that the person have paid a suitable fees then he will provide the good at zero confirmation (without waiting for any confirmation).

What do you think about that idea?

A big chance about the double spending will happen, at least if the seller was accepting a confirmation and he still goes to get a chance about the double spending.

read the hypothesis.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36788.msg463391#msg463391

Putting the higher fees is not the excellent way. You weren't thinking if the spam transaction will be happening?

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.LaLa World.
──── www.lalaworld.io
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January 17, 2017, 12:25:37 AM
 #12

A minutes ago an idea came to my mind and I hope it will not be wrong.

Most of the people say that buying with bitcoins at local shops will be bothering as they will have to wait for longer at the local shop for the confirmation of their payment in bitcoin to the shop/store. But one thing is in my mind that if a person pay a suitable miner fee for a transaction then that transaction cannot be cancelled. So if a person will pay in front of the shopkeeper and the shopkeeper will know that the person have paid a suitable fees then he will provide the good at zero confirmation (without waiting for any confirmation).

What do you think about that idea?

The Vendor will be a fool to trust anything, but seeing the actual confirmations on his own wallet.
Other Screens can be faked. Most Vendors won't have the expertise to know if they are being tricked or not.


 Cool
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January 17, 2017, 12:42:53 AM
 #13

No vendor is going to let you leave until they actually have the money in their wallet, which means waiting until the transaction has at least a few confirmations.
If bitcoin can come up with some solution for this, it would make it possible to spend in real time in stores.

Unfortunately, for now, this means relying on third-party solutions.
However, even an established company providing escrow by means of prepaid credit cards might be enough to persuade shop owners to accept the payments.

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January 17, 2017, 03:16:25 AM
 #14

It's true, Bitcoin transactions with a 0.0002 fee are confirmed very quickly. And even credit card payments can be reversed many days later. So even though the transaction is unconfirmed, it's still received "instantly".
Yes it is true that for merchants card payments have higher risk of chargebacks but with only one confirmation bitcoin payments is safer for merchants. Fee is not fixed and 0.0002 may be only enough for transaction with one input and two output.



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January 17, 2017, 03:33:05 AM
 #15

It's true, Bitcoin transactions with a 0.0002 fee are confirmed very quickly. And even credit card payments can be reversed many days later. So even though the transaction is unconfirmed, it's still received "instantly".
Yes it is true that for merchants card payments have higher risk of chargebacks but with only one confirmation bitcoin payments is safer for merchants. Fee is not fixed and 0.0002 may be only enough for transaction with one input and two output.

Everytime it won't be successful. At times delay in confirmation happens. Merchants were safe, once its send it gets received. Conformations will be pending which is not an issue. These days people haven't got as many shops to make transactions for daily needs.

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January 17, 2017, 03:43:29 AM
 #16

Just pay 30 cents and your transaction will confirm in less than 5 minutes or pay more like $0.5 to get a confirmation under 3 minutes.
With paypal or credit cards you are usually paying more fees than above and even if you'll end up paying the same fees you know that you could always mine altcoins exchange to bitcoin and there you have printed your own money as well there are not stupid limitations on bitcoin.

There is also a way in which the merchants could be linked to nodes directly for transactions to be broadcast in blockchain immediately, though I'm not quite sure how do the nodes receive transactions and in what orders?

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Doms
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January 17, 2017, 04:38:23 AM
 #17

If using bitcoin entails more fees even at slower transaction speeds, that would not be popular with the masses. I am doing our grocery shopping on a weekly basis and I just use my debit card, simply because it is fast, hassle free and you get to earn some points on the side. That is another issue that bitcoin developers will have to address if they wish to make bitcoin the currency of choice of future generations.
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January 17, 2017, 04:39:58 AM
 #18

Just pay 30 cents and your transaction will confirm in less than 5 minutes or pay more like $0.5 to get a confirmation under 3 minutes.
With paypal or credit cards you are usually paying more fees than above and even if you'll end up paying the same fees you know that you could always mine altcoins exchange to bitcoin and there you have printed your own money as well there are not stupid limitations on bitcoin.

There is also a way in which the merchants could be linked to nodes directly for transactions to be broadcast in blockchain immediately, though I'm not quite sure how do the nodes receive transactions and in what orders?


You are confused.  Tongue
Blocks being found is not dependent on the fee you pay, that depends on when the miners find a block,
and the rated block speed is every 10 minutes. Higher fees just means the miner will add your transaction to the next available block when they find it.
On Average a block will be found ~ 10 minutes, so any fee that gets a transaction included in one in 10 minutes, there is no reason to pay a higher fee than that.


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January 17, 2017, 04:45:07 AM
 #19

If using bitcoin entails more fees even at slower transaction speeds, that would not be popular with the masses. I am doing our grocery shopping on a weekly basis and I just use my debit card, simply because it is fast, hassle free and you get to earn some points on the side. That is another issue that bitcoin developers will have to address if they wish to make bitcoin the currency of choice of future generations.

Little Conspiracy Secret the original creators of BTC , Never intended it to be used for everyday purchases.
It was to be used as a way for Banks & Financial institutions to transfer money between each other, (so they can fire the security companies that transfer cash & gold between them), they have always intended for the little guy to have to use bank/credit cards/checks (which they control).
Only difference instead of Fiat, they will fraction reserve BTC on you.  Tongue
That is why they made it sooo slooow.

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January 17, 2017, 04:47:32 AM
 #20

A minutes ago an idea came to my mind and I hope it will not be wrong.

Most of the people say that buying with bitcoins at local shops will be bothering as they will have to wait for longer at the local shop for the confirmation of their payment in bitcoin to the shop/store. But one thing is in my mind that if a person pay a suitable miner fee for a transaction then that transaction cannot be cancelled. So if a person will pay in front of the shopkeeper and the shopkeeper will know that the person have paid a suitable fees then he will provide the good at zero confirmation (without waiting for any confirmation).

What do you think about that idea?

We had a meetup at a pizza joint in Vegas on Saturday where the check was paid via bitcoins. Upon paying, we were gone sans waiting for any confirmations. Ergo, a nonissue, akin to not having to wait around a vendor's shop for months till he's satisfied that you're not going to reverse the credit card payment. Defense mechanisms are in place and where even the rare nefarious actor that's able to game the cryptocurrency-payment system are chalked up as the cost of doing business. I can easily state that more money is lost in any B&M business via employee thief and incompetence at the till than cc chargebacks and rogue crypto payments combined, the [estimated] dollars lost making up a percentage of the product or service's price point.

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