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Author Topic: Why is the Politics & Society section so anti-Semitic?  (Read 3107 times)
John Self
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April 14, 2013, 08:18:37 AM
 #21

And why doesn't the forum appoint a moderator to shut down the obviously racist threads?

I never understood why people are racists, hating jews or any other group for that matter. First off, in any group there will be assholes and angels, although sometimes an ethnic and/or religious group may have certain traits that I do not approve of much, but I don't hate them. I may think they're totally whack though, but I don't see that as hating. Hate is a strong word.

Also, when it comes to racism - I wonder if racists lack intellect. If they would be able to look at it from the outside:

1. Hating is not going to make you a better person, or make you feel better about your life.
2. What if the anger and hate was directed towards you from someone else, let's say someone not liking a jew had people hating him because he was an Italian. Would that be fun ? People hating on you, just because your parents are jewish, british, indian or whatever ?

Racism doesn't make sense, and often one can see it is very hard to do a civilized and calm debate with a person with a lot of hate within. Often those doesn't have peace, and the outward hate reflects on their personality. So, in reality they would rather have to work on their internal issues.

Perhaps this is relevant: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/right-wing-extremism-the-village-where-the-neo-nazis-rule-a-737471.html

I think about these questions a lot, but have never been able to find answers I'm satisfied with.

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April 14, 2013, 08:39:29 AM
 #22


I think about these questions a lot, but have never been able to find answers I'm satisfied with.

We can only speculate a world without it.  I assume it's a lot like a society with only one major race (which is a term I can't agree with but since it's popular...) never having been introduced to any other; in this way, all men are equal.  But even then, you cannot escape prejudice against one gender or another, and if there was hypothetically one gender of asexual human beings, the tall would be prejudice against the small, the masculine would be prejudice against the feminine.  However, there were quite a few societies in which men and women were absolute equals.  You'll never find such a thing in a western civilization, tho; I assume Abrahamic religion plays a large role in this, as those equal societies I mention had their own religions (mostly to do with gods for the different forces of nature, i.e. rudimentary sciences, not the story-telling mumbo jumbo in the Abrahamic ones.)

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April 14, 2013, 09:02:01 AM
 #23

If you "believe" in behavioral evolutionary psychology, then racism can be explained quite simply:

Humans are a social animal, with evolved group behaviors. Part of that group behavior is inclusion/exclusion based on shared characteristics. The easiest way for humans to do that is to evolve instinctive distrust to those whose phenotype and genetic makeup is most dissimilar to their "in group", and to evolve instinctive trust to those who match us in appearance (language, culture, etc).

It's an evolutionary "shortcut", a pattern matching heuristic that served well in times when a tribe removed enough to look different was probably very dangerous. As any heuristic it had very rough applicability in a man-eat-man world.

Today, it is a mental handicap. As a heuristic it is wrong most of the time. As a cultural practice it is abhorrent. Yet, as an instinctive reaction has been scientifically shown to exist in almost all people in some measure, through minute timing differences in association tests. We all do it, only some of us try to be aware of it in order to rationally dismiss and remove the bias from our actions. Others are either oblivious, or thrive in the feeling of "common purpose" that group inclusion/exclusion dynamics offer.

The same dynamic applies to race, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation, accent, economic class (visible), health, age and many other recognizable characteristics. Basically, anything you can identify in a person to separate into "us" and "other", at a glance, will be a focus of such biased thinking.

tl;dr: we are not that much more enlightened than monkeys.

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April 14, 2013, 04:57:36 PM
 #24

I banned antibanker yesterday if that's who you're talking about. His posting was far too off topic in nearly every thread he posted in. This is bitcointalk, not jewtalk.

This guy seems familiar:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176379.msg1837200#new

 Roll Eyes

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April 14, 2013, 05:05:22 PM
 #25

I just learned a Russia Today reporter promotes bitcoin, which answers the title question IMO.
Now you are starting to sound like idiots you were criticizing.

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April 14, 2013, 05:08:09 PM
 #26

If you "believe" in behavioral evolutionary psychology, then racism can be explained quite simply:

Humans are a social animal, with evolved group behaviors. Part of that group behavior is inclusion/exclusion based on shared characteristics. The easiest way for humans to do that is to evolve instinctive distrust to those whose phenotype and genetic makeup is most dissimilar to their "in group", and to evolve instinctive trust to those who match us in appearance (language, culture, etc).

It's an evolutionary "shortcut", a pattern matching heuristic that served well in times when a tribe removed enough to look different was probably very dangerous. As any heuristic it had very rough applicability in a man-eat-man world.

Today, it is a mental handicap. As a heuristic it is wrong most of the time. As a cultural practice it is abhorrent. Yet, as an instinctive reaction has been scientifically shown to exist in almost all people in some measure, through minute timing differences in association tests. We all do it, only some of us try to be aware of it in order to rationally dismiss and remove the bias from our actions. Others are either oblivious, or thrive in the feeling of "common purpose" that group inclusion/exclusion dynamics offer.

The same dynamic applies to race, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation, accent, economic class (visible), health, age and many other recognizable characteristics. Basically, anything you can identify in a person to separate into "us" and "other", at a glance, will be a focus of such biased thinking.

tl;dr: we are not that much more enlightened than monkeys.



Personally I don't doubt that 'sociobiology' is a significant factor in a lot of our behaviors.  It makes enough sense that I would be surprised to not see it expressed.  I see organized sports, and being a fan of sports teams, as being a direct expression of this principle.  And of course 'nationalism'.

Related to the OP, I am negative about 'Zionists'.  And any racist right-wing political party which most certainly includes Likud.  That is sometimes mistaken for 'anti-semitism' I guess.  Oh well.  I suspect that there are probably more non-Jew Zionists than there are Jewish ones.  And I find it questionable whether there really is much genetic material carried forward from the Judea of antiquity into the modern Ashkenazi populations anyway.  Probably studies have been done about it, but I've not bothered to look for them.


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April 14, 2013, 05:10:58 PM
 #27

I just learned a Russia Today reporter promotes bitcoin, which answers the title question IMO.
Now you are starting to sound like idiots you were criticizing.
All generalizations are false. Including this one.

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April 14, 2013, 05:14:06 PM
 #28

Related to the OP, I am negative about 'Zionists'.  And any racist right-wing political party which most certainly includes Likud.  That is sometimes mistaken for 'anti-semitism' I guess.  Oh well.  I suspect that there are probably more non-Jew Zionists than there are Jewish ones.  And I find it questionable whether there really is much genetic material carried forward from the Judea of antiquity into the modern Ashkenazi populations anyway.  Probably studies have been done about it, but I've not bothered to look for them.



Well, the difference would be, if you're looking at Zionism from a political standpoint, it's perfectly okay to be against it; it's pretty ridiculous that a group of people will expect a stretch of land to just be given to them because they said they deserve it.  Anti-Semitism happens when you hate Jews as individuals, which would be akin to racism or the like.  There's nothing wrong with having a negative viewpoint against, say, the New Black Panther party, as long as it's not because you hate blacks.

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April 14, 2013, 05:16:25 PM
 #29


Thanks  Wink.

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April 14, 2013, 05:21:11 PM
 #30

I think the issue is people's tendency to find a correlation, no matter how absurd, and cling with it. Yes, a disproportionate amount of bankers are Jewish. The following statements could also be said:

  • A disproportionate amount of bankers are male.
  • A disproportionate amount of bankers are older people.
  • A disproportionate amount of bankers are rich.
  • A disproportionate amount of bankers are fair-skinned.
  • A disproportionate amount of bankers have facial hair.

Note that it would be absurd to assert these correlations as causations. Blaming the "males", the "seniors", the "rich", the "white", etc. are just blaming scapegoats, and in this case scapegoats that are rarely blamed. Someone doing so would be laughed at.

There is no difference between this and blaming the "Jews". As humans, we tend to blame a select group of people for our own problems. If we try to blame groups that are generally more powerful, we get laughed at. If we try to blame groups that are not often blamed (e.g. facial hair), we also get laughed at. As a result, we become racist or otherwise discriminatory.

Luckily, there is a solution to this. Simply put, never make any generalizations with regards to people—they are rarely constructive.
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April 14, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
 #31

I just learned a Russia Today reporter promotes bitcoin, which answers the title question IMO.
Now you are starting to sound like idiots you were criticizing.

I followed RT on Facebook for a couple of year, because I am critical of Israeli and American foreign policy and consider myself a type of anti-Zionist but I was shocked by the outrageous anti semitism shown by so many of the commenters: I have never seen so many anti-Semites commenting in one place. Perhaps it is something to do with Russian society, or just that crazies always tend to intermingle with thoughtful dissidents (which is what happened at occupy in my city).

TLDR: a lot of racist people happen to like RT.

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April 14, 2013, 10:34:19 PM
 #32

I just learned a Russia Today reporter promotes bitcoin, which answers the title question IMO.
Now you are starting to sound like idiots you were criticizing.

I followed RT on Facebook for a couple of year, because I am critical of Israeli and American foreign policy and consider myself a type of anti-Zionist but I was shocked by the outrageous anti semitism shown by so many of the commenters: I have never seen so many anti-Semites commenting in one place. Perhaps it is something to do with Russian society, or just that crazies always tend to intermingle with thoughtful dissidents (which is what happened at occupy in my city).

TLDR: a lot of racist people happen to like RT.
I may have missed it. I thought you were referring to the RT journalists, but sounds like it's the commentators. I never looked at the comments, just watch RT occasionally.


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April 14, 2013, 11:33:34 PM
 #33

I just learned a Russia Today reporter promotes bitcoin, which answers the title question IMO.
Now you are starting to sound like idiots you were criticizing.

I followed RT on Facebook for a couple of year, because I am critical of Israeli and American foreign policy and consider myself a type of anti-Zionist but I was shocked by the outrageous anti semitism shown by so many of the commenters: I have never seen so many anti-Semites commenting in one place. Perhaps it is something to do with Russian society, or just that crazies always tend to intermingle with thoughtful dissidents (which is what happened at occupy in my city).

TLDR: a lot of racist people happen to like RT.

Its simply that these people are looking for any new outlet that is not run by jews. Since rt is one of the only ones that fall into that category, its natural to expect them all to end up there.

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April 15, 2013, 02:27:59 PM
 #34

Antibanker have proper political views but his behavior was inpolite and somewhat trollish. No matter what he said such behavior could be considered spam in most forums. Antisemites and third way nationalsocialists must be polite and must spend extra time explaining their ideas for the population. Antibanker with his posts mostly consisting of two sentences composed of two words in each makes all nationalsocialism supporters look like neanderthals.

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April 15, 2013, 02:41:53 PM
 #35

I like having racists, antisemites, and general bigots around. If they are just silenced, then they are still around, being part of our society in secret. If they are vocal, it's easier to tell whom to ignore and especially avoid. And it doesn't even matter if they are being trolls, or being very polite about it. Stupid beliefs are stupid, and should be laughed at out of existence.

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April 15, 2013, 08:44:39 PM
 #36

It is stupid belief that people with totally different beliefs what is right and wrong and with various and incompatible needs can coexist in same society with everyone being happy. This will not happen. Either almost everyone is unhappy and Orwellian control must be established to prevent disorder. Or the society must be purged from minorities of all sorts (immigrants, perverts, people with wrong political beliefs) and mononationalistic socialist republic must be established.

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April 15, 2013, 08:53:52 PM
 #37

It is stupid belief that people with totally different beliefs what is right and wrong and with various and incompatible needs can coexist in same society with everyone being happy. This will not happen. Either almost everyone is unhappy and Orwellian control must be established to prevent disorder. Or the society must be purged from minorities of all sorts (immigrants, perverts, people with wrong political beliefs) and mononationalistic socialist republic must be established.
You know we keep you around as a joke, right?

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April 15, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
 #38

It is stupid belief that people with totally different beliefs what is right and wrong and with various and incompatible needs can coexist in same society with everyone being happy. This will not happen. Either almost everyone is unhappy and Orwellian control must be established to prevent disorder. Or the society must be purged from minorities of all sorts (immigrants, perverts, people with wrong political beliefs) and mononationalistic socialist republic must be established.

I'm pretty sure Hitler tried that once...didn't work out well.  What's so hard about accepting someone different?  Oh, right--statism.  Carry on.

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April 15, 2013, 08:59:51 PM
 #39

It is stupid belief that people with totally different beliefs what is right and wrong and with various and incompatible needs can coexist in same society with everyone being happy. This will not happen. Either almost everyone is unhappy and Orwellian control must be established to prevent disorder. Or the society must be purged from minorities of all sorts (immigrants, perverts, people with wrong political beliefs) and mononationalistic socialist republic must be established.
You know we keep you around as a joke, right?

I don't think he does, and that's what makes it so funny!


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April 15, 2013, 09:09:26 PM
 #40

Or the society must be purged from minorities of all sorts (immigrants, perverts, people with wrong political beliefs) and mononationalistic socialist republic must be established.
Hmm... I'm leaning back toward the idea that MM is actually a satire, and (behind the fake persona) thinks of theymos as cyber-Hitler.

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