Bitcoin Forum
December 18, 2017, 07:37:59 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: BITMAIN Antminer T9 (New Release) - Not worth it.  (Read 4953 times)
lazypolarbears
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 09:40:21 PM
 #1

Well, some might've noticed that BITMAIN announced a new product a few hours ago, the Antminer T9. It's basically a S9 but 40% less inefficient and slightly cheaper.

The 11.5Th/s model is available on their site now.

Why did they make this so less inefficient? I think it's like 0.145J/GHs versus 0.1 for the S9...

Then again, BTC skyrocketed back today so maybe it's worth it?
1513625879
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513625879

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513625879
Reply with quote  #2

1513625879
Report to moderator
1513625879
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513625879

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513625879
Reply with quote  #2

1513625879
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513625879
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513625879

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513625879
Reply with quote  #2

1513625879
Report to moderator
jstew
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 515


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 09:50:09 PM
 #2

Well, some might've noticed that BITMAIN announced a new product a few hours ago, the Antminer T9. It's basically a S9 but 40% less inefficient and slightly cheaper.

The 11.5Th/s model is available on their site now.

Why did they make this so less inefficient? I think it's like 0.145J/GHs versus 0.1 for the S9...

Then again, BTC skyrocketed back today so maybe it's worth it?

id take a few if i could afford them so quick math on my part

10x t9 - 115 th = per Month   2.61254128 BTC   $2347.00 ( at current pricing and diff )
 317$ per month power cost on all 10 = $2030 monthly income

so figure depending on what diff does i could roi and start making money on them in about 6-6.5 months ( less if the price were to spike and stay up ) and id be able to run them for quite a while as long as they are reliable
im still turning a profit with .5w/gh gear


my problem is no money lol
lazypolarbears
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 09:52:06 PM
 #3

Well, some might've noticed that BITMAIN announced a new product a few hours ago, the Antminer T9. It's basically a S9 but 40% less inefficient and slightly cheaper.

The 11.5Th/s model is available on their site now.

Why did they make this so less inefficient? I think it's like 0.145J/GHs versus 0.1 for the S9...

Then again, BTC skyrocketed back today so maybe it's worth it?

id take a few if i could afford them so quick math on my part

10x t9 - 115 th = per Month   2.61254128 BTC   $2347.00 ( at current pricing and diff )
 317$ per month power cost on all 10 = $2030 monthly income

so figure depending on what diff does i could roi and start making money on them in about 6-6.5 months ( less if the price were to spike and stay up ) and id be able to run them for quite a while as long as they are reliable
im still turning a profit with .5w/gh gear


my problem is no money lol

Wow you electrical cost must be dead low.... I'm at $.21/kWH (@home) and free (@college dorm). But no way am I mining S9's or T9's in a dorm again. R4's only].
jstew
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 515


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 10:04:45 PM
 #4

Well, some might've noticed that BITMAIN announced a new product a few hours ago, the Antminer T9. It's basically a S9 but 40% less inefficient and slightly cheaper.

The 11.5Th/s model is available on their site now.

Why did they make this so less inefficient? I think it's like 0.145J/GHs versus 0.1 for the S9...

Then again, BTC skyrocketed back today so maybe it's worth it?

id take a few if i could afford them so quick math on my part

10x t9 - 115 th = per Month   2.61254128 BTC   $2347.00 ( at current pricing and diff )
 317$ per month power cost on all 10 = $2030 monthly income

so figure depending on what diff does i could roi and start making money on them in about 6-6.5 months ( less if the price were to spike and stay up ) and id be able to run them for quite a while as long as they are reliable
im still turning a profit with .5w/gh gear


my problem is no money lol

Wow you electrical cost must be dead low.... I'm at $.21/kWH (@home) and free (@college dorm). But no way am I mining S9's or T9's in a dorm again. R4's only].

its is very low , i have everything i need to be a big miner , 3/4 mw of power , the cooling capacity , super cheap power , just no money to expand my farm much more.
i actually do better buying older second hand hardware like s7's then new stuff , but if i had the money to buy id pick up some s9 or t9's instead just for the density

also if i bought new stuff my current hardware would help pay off the new stuff so id actually roi pretty quickly


at 21c kwh u must be in cali or one of the big citys?
zombijs
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 85


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 10:15:56 PM
 #5

If it is realible then it's worth it.
TunerDude007
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 379


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 10:49:52 PM
 #6

This new device has me confused...What is the purpose? retrofitted faulty S9's? I don't get it......
VRobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714


I'm in BTC XTC


View Profile
January 17, 2017, 10:54:31 PM
 #7

I guess higher voltage used on the chip chain.  Hashrate is proportional to amps.  Power is amps*volts.  Up the volts and you get more power consumed for the same hashrate.  Therefore it is less efficient but probably more reliable if the chips aren't running near the minimum voltage to operate properly.

I don't believe in superstition because it's bad luck
In Hotels, I prefer the 13thF1oor6CAwyzyxXPNnRvu3nhhYeqZdc
These aren't the Droids you're looking for: S5 & S7 (Sold), R4B2, R4B4 (RIP), & S9-13.5
Goms
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336

Taskie


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
 #8

It seems to me T9 is basically a cheaper version of S9 that is not even as efficient as S9.
Has anyone noticed Bitmain has not been able to release a version that beats the efficiency of S9?
R4 is more quiet and consumes less electricity but it's also not as efficient as S9.
QuintLeo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 02:34:58 AM
 #9

The S9 was optimised for near-maximum efficiency by running the chips at about as low a voltage as they could be run at - which caused quite a few instability issues in the early batches, and is why BitMain has had 2 "different speed" batches around at the same time for most of the existence of the S9 (the optimal ones that could be clocked higher, and the slightly less optimal ones that couldn't handle as high a clock at that low of voltage).

The T9 appears to be an attempt to recoup some chips that could NOT run reliably at all at that low of a voltage (fewer chips / chain), thus the lower efficiency, or to compete directly with newer miners like the Avalon 721 and the BitFury based ones that aren't achieving S9 efficiency levels but are lower cost (or possibly both).


 This sort of WIDE variation on the performance of a specific chip design seems to be related to the reasons that both Intel AND IBM have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure Silicon" in semiconductor fabrication.

lazypolarbears
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 06:47:21 PM
 #10

It seems to me T9 is basically a cheaper version of S9 that is not even as efficient as S9.
Has anyone noticed Bitmain has not been able to release a version that beats the efficiency of S9?
R4 is more quiet and consumes less electricity but it's also not as efficient as S9.

R4 is just as efficient as the S9 actually, when you calculate the electricity to hashrate ratio. It's basically 2/3 of an S9 - it has 2 hash boards instead of 3 and a MUCH more efficient fan. It surprised me too, considering the heat and noise difference between them.

IMO, R4's are the best miner on the market, unless you're running a huge farm - even in which case you may have to provide air conditioning (= more electrical cost) to the rooms.

I wonder how hot/loud the T9's are. They sold out pretty quick..
lazypolarbears
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 06:49:25 PM
 #11

The S9 was optimised for near-maximum efficiency by running the chips at about as low a voltage as they could be run at - which caused quite a few instability issues in the early batches, and is why BitMain has had 2 "different speed" batches around at the same time for most of the existence of the S9 (the optimal ones that could be clocked higher, and the slightly less optimal ones that couldn't handle as high a clock at that low of voltage).

The T9 appears to be an attempt to recoup some chips that could NOT run reliably at all at that low of a voltage (fewer chips / chain), thus the lower efficiency, or to compete directly with newer miners like the Avalon 721 and the BitFury based ones that aren't achieving S9 efficiency levels but are lower cost (or possibly both).


 This sort of WIDE variation on the performance of a specific chip design seems to be related to the reasons that both Intel AND IBM have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure Silicon" in semiconductor fabrication.



Does that mean that T9's are going to be less reliable as well? To put it bluntly, "recycled" rejected S9 chips?
QuintLeo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 08:58:27 PM
 #12

The T9 is running fewer chips/chain so more voltage per chip should make them at least comparable (and possibly superior) in reliability to the S9, even if the chips are lower quality.

 Part of the issues the S9 has had seems to be that Bitmain was actually pushing the lower edge of voltage on the chips (unlike ANY of their previous chain designs that always were at mid-point to high point of the chip design operating voltage), and it seems like process variation at the 14/16nm node is higher than 28nm and before so some of the chips just weren't WORKING reliably at the bottom of the design spec voltage range at full capability.

 Upping the voltage per chip 5-10% makes a HUGE difference sometimes.


 I suspect the T9 is using an "early batch high TH" S9 fan setup, so they'll probably be in the same noise level range.

lazypolarbears
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 11:27:36 PM
 #13

That might explain why they were relatively limited and, as someone pointed out earlier, only 1 batch not 2 batches as BITMAIN usually does for R4's and S9's....
lazypolarbears
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
January 18, 2017, 11:31:03 PM
 #14

The T9 is running fewer chips/chain so more voltage per chip should make them at least comparable (and possibly superior) in reliability to the S9, even if the chips are lower quality.

 Part of the issues the S9 has had seems to be that Bitmain was actually pushing the lower edge of voltage on the chips (unlike ANY of their previous chain designs that always were at mid-point to high point of the chip design operating voltage), and it seems like process variation at the 14/16nm node is higher than 28nm and before so some of the chips just weren't WORKING reliably at the bottom of the design spec voltage range at full capability.

 Upping the voltage per chip 5-10% makes a HUGE difference sometimes.


 I suspect the T9 is using an "early batch high TH" S9 fan setup, so they'll probably be in the same noise level range.



It's weird that you mention that because I have this weird "faulty" S9-B1 14TH/s that I had to under clock/undervolt to 450MHz and It'd still hash 11Th/s consistently... I think it used up less than 1000W continuous according to Kill-a-watt... it was incredibly efficient
chasdabigone
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12


View Profile
January 19, 2017, 12:46:49 AM
 #15

It seems to me T9 is basically a cheaper version of S9 that is not even as efficient as S9.
Has anyone noticed Bitmain has not been able to release a version that beats the efficiency of S9?
R4 is more quiet and consumes less electricity but it's also not as efficient as S9.

IMO, R4's are the best miner on the market, unless you're running a huge farm - even in which case you may have to provide air conditioning (= more electrical cost) to the rooms.


I agree - they run quietly and can also be plugged into any standard outlet in the USA which isn't possible with stock S9/T9
fanatic26
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 560


View Profile
January 19, 2017, 01:21:43 AM
 #16

You guys really need to stop evaluating these miners for home use. They are 100% meant for datacenters. Reliability is so much more important than efficiency on a large deployment of systems. With S9s averaging 30% or more with issues for most larger deployments I know of the T9 is a welcome sight. S9 is more efficient but if you include the cost of maintenance, repair, and the downtime involved the T9 will be a vastly superior miner in the long run if they are stable and trouble free.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946


A new tool for prediction https://bitvol.info/


View Profile
January 19, 2017, 04:56:33 AM
 #17

You guys really need to stop evaluating these miners for home use. They are 100% meant for datacenters. Reliability is so much more important than efficiency on a large deployment of systems. With S9s averaging 30% or more with issues for most larger deployments I know of the T9 is a welcome sight. S9 is more efficient but if you include the cost of maintenance, repair, and the downtime involved the T9 will be a vastly superior miner in the long run if they are stable and trouble free.

And you need to realize that many offices use a space heater.  And the r4 is perfect for that.

I could show you ten places that use space heaters in the winter and in the summer.

Say what?   Yeah the buildings have cold spots in the summer due to uneven ac.

And they have cold spots in the winter due to uneven heat.

So instead of a delonghi space heater using 1000 watts and wasting power the r4 is a perfect miner.

I ordered a second r4. To go in an office that uses space heaters.

Power cost is 3 cents in the summer and 2 cents in the winter.

I have been mining in this office for years.

I had s-1 s-3 s-7 under clock. S-7ln s-9 under clock old firmware and now r4.

Yeah. The cap is 2x 120 volt circuits and needs to be quiet.

So. I will always be looking for the best miner  for this spot and it is the r4 at the moment.

I will use 1600- 1700 watts and mine 16th

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
zombijs
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 85


View Profile
January 19, 2017, 06:55:49 AM
 #18

It seems to me T9 is basically a cheaper version of S9 that is not even as efficient as S9.
Has anyone noticed Bitmain has not been able to release a version that beats the efficiency of S9?
R4 is more quiet and consumes less electricity but it's also not as efficient as S9.

Because it has cooler which consumes more energy
lottery248
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


Boi, boi mah!


View Profile WWW
January 19, 2017, 11:00:59 AM
 #19

If it is realible then it's worth it.
not only reliability problem, think of the price of bitcoin, the local electricity price, the sustainability, the maintenance, and the bitcoin reward halving (subject to the price trend of bitcoin).

if you decided a bet to buy and the price of bitcoin increases, then it would be worth buying the miner mentioned in the op. however, you would still have to maintain your own miner,  if you have any, properly. a simple failure could lead to decrease of efficiency.

It seems to me T9 is basically a cheaper version of S9 that is not even as efficient as S9.
Has anyone noticed Bitmain has not been able to release a version that beats the efficiency of S9?
R4 is more quiet and consumes less electricity but it's also not as efficient as S9.

Because it has cooler which consumes more energy

maybe using a water block could help decrease the temperature without using more energy. Chinese mining sites are using similar water powered cooling techniques in order not to use too much energy to cool down the mining field.

QuintLeo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
January 19, 2017, 10:59:39 PM
 #20


 the bitcoin reward halving (subject to the price trend of bitcoin).


 The next halfing is YEARS off - won't be a factor in the achievement of ROI on any miner bought this year, and probably won't be on any miner bought next year.

 Your statement also seems to imply that the halfing is caused by the price trend of bitcoin, when it does not - and the 2 halvings to date only had SHORT term effects ON the price of Bitcoin.


Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!