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Author Topic: Get rid of taxes altogether and create private cities  (Read 3487 times)
Astrohacker
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June 16, 2011, 01:14:44 AM
 #1

For some reason people are really worried about how the government is going to continue to tax them after bitcoin takes over:

* http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13622.0
* http://owni.eu/2011/05/30/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/
* http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/

However, this is not our problem. I propose another solution. Now is the time for private cities. We will design these cities on the internet. In these cities, every thing is free market, including the cities themselves. You live in which city you decide is best for you.

Bitcoin is a free market solution to the problem of centralized control. Why in the world should we be trying to solve government's problem of how best to coerce us into paying for their wars? Instead, let's solve the problem of taxes the bitcoin way: with a free market. You decide which city you live in. Some will charge higher fees than others. If you don't want to pay for wars, then don't live in cities that charge you for them.
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myrkul
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June 16, 2011, 01:27:11 AM
 #2

I'm with you astro, but that sounds crazy expensive. How we gonna get the money, Kickstarter?

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June 16, 2011, 01:40:15 AM
 #3

It would probably be very expensive to design and construct an entire city from scratch. However, there is another option. We could wait for some government to collapse, and then take over one of their cities. The way we could do this is as follows. We find an unstable city, and then establish ourselves in one of their neighborhoods, or create a new neighborhood nearby. We will establish services and try to be as independent as possible. When the government collapses, chaos will reign everywhere except in our neighborhood. If we are successful, we would be able to expand our neighborhood until we encompass the entire city.

Of course, the point is not to coerce people or use violence in any way. We would take over the city because we were better, not because we were more manipulative.
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June 16, 2011, 01:46:24 AM
 #4

There are plenty of hollowed out cities, abandoned and waiting for fresh life.
Make a call to flight of every able bodied, worth while, individual to flash mob one of them and start
making it live...
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June 16, 2011, 01:47:11 AM
 #5

most people will end up in the city with most nukes paying highest taxes and taking over everyone else until one city = the world, then we repeat this all over again, and continue until we find some aliens to fight them so they pay taxes to us and not the other way around.
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June 16, 2011, 01:57:16 AM
 #6

There are plenty of hollowed out cities, abandoned and waiting for fresh life.
Make a call to flight of every able bodied, worth while, individual to flash mob one of them and start
making it live...

'Lets all go to Detroit'?

...



You know, that actually sounds like a good idea. We'd need to get the entire social structure set up beforehand, though, and just put it into place once we get there. Basically, like Astro said, design the city online, and once we have enough people to constitute a 'skeleton crew' of a city, we start moving.

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June 16, 2011, 02:01:51 AM
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I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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myrkul
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June 16, 2011, 02:05:11 AM
 #8

Awww... can't we do the airship instead?

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June 16, 2011, 02:09:10 AM
 #9

Awww... can't we do the airship instead?

As long as you could periodically connect to the internet, why not Smiley

That is the main question here. Also, I'd look out for trying this anywhere that would be threatened by a potential 'new sovereign state' in their midst. Even if you don't mean it to be, it could be taken as such.

I do like the mental exercise though. Really comes down to where can you hit the net (without satellite) and still be out of range of greedy sovereigns?


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June 16, 2011, 02:11:50 AM
 #10

It would probably be very expensive to design and construct an entire city from scratch. However, there is another option. We could wait for some government to collapse, and then take over one of their cities. The way we could do this is as follows. We find an unstable city, and then establish ourselves in one of their neighborhoods, or create a new neighborhood nearby. We will establish services and try to be as independent as possible. When the government collapses, chaos will reign everywhere except in our neighborhood. If we are successful, we would be able to expand our neighborhood until we encompass the entire city.

Of course, the point is not to coerce people or use violence in any way. We would take over the city because we were better, not because we were more manipulative.
Please, by all means go ahead and do that. Someone must have failed their junior sociology class...

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June 16, 2011, 02:12:04 AM
 #11

I absolutely love the idea of city states.
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June 16, 2011, 02:19:32 AM
 #12

City-unState? City-Non-State?

It's not a City-State, that much I know. But yes, Defense would pretty much have to be priority #1.

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June 16, 2011, 02:48:53 AM
 #13

It's already been done.  City is owned by a company, Alphaville Urbanismo, and you pay them for all the utilities and services and so forth.  You don't get to opt out of certain ones though IIRC, you just pay or don't live there.  I heard about it on bitcoin-otc.  One of the BTC day traders on otc either lives near by or used to work for the company or something like that.

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June 16, 2011, 02:54:59 AM
 #14

Can I move there and start up my own say... Trash Company, compete with the existing company?

If not, That's not what we're talking about.

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June 16, 2011, 04:17:24 AM
 #15

This is already being done, at least to the extent that it can be done (in the US): http://freestateproject.org/

Also keep in mind that it isn't exactly easy to start a new society completely from scratch, especially with unbalanced demographics.

Want to buy a 2004 Ford Taurus with bitcoin?  I live in Maryland.  Send me a private message if interested.
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June 16, 2011, 04:24:10 AM
 #16

This is already being done, at least to the extent that it can be done (in the US): http://freestateproject.org/

Also keep in mind that it isn't exactly easy to start a new society completely from scratch, especially with unbalanced demographics.

I'm a member but not yet a mover. I wonder if we could get a group of Porcs together to start a new city?

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June 16, 2011, 04:42:34 AM
 #17

There are plenty of hollowed out cities, abandoned and waiting for fresh life.

Yeah, it's called Detroit, MI  Grin
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June 16, 2011, 04:47:36 AM
 #18

It's already been done.  City is owned by a company, Alphaville Urbanismo, and you pay them for all the utilities and services and so forth.  You don't get to opt out of certain ones though IIRC, you just pay or don't live there.

So, you pay tax to live there? But for the rest it's free Wink
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June 16, 2011, 04:59:15 AM
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It's already been done.  City is owned by a company, Alphaville Urbanismo, and you pay them for all the utilities and services and so forth.  You don't get to opt out of certain ones though IIRC, you just pay or don't live there.  I heard about it on bitcoin-otc.  One of the BTC day traders on otc either lives near by or used to work for the company or something like that.

Yeah, that's not what is being discussed here.  There is a name for what you guys are looking for.  It's a phyle.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 16, 2011, 08:44:31 AM
 #20

In America, some states need to start seceding from the Union. Then smaller parts of these states could begin creating these communities which would grow rapidly. In fact, there are some communities already like this in many states in the more remote regions. They are self-sufficient, with a variety of skilled workers and do-it-yourselfers.

I have a feeling that the US Federal Government would send in troops though. Especially in states where there are a lot of nuclear missiles, like Montana.

Time is money. This means that if you have spare time, you can use it to make money.

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