John Nash created bitcoin

[dinofelis]

Yes, an idealist, somewhat naive, hoping to be on the verge of a buzz, and he was right (in fact, lucky).  You have any idea how many people run around in the world to sell an idea that doesn't work out ?   So the "dark forces of the world" sent out their agent special 007.  Wow, impressive.  You don't have Greenpeace activists running around ?  You don't have people travelling the world about many crazy and not so crazy ideas ?  So what ? That's proof that the Rotschilds are behind this ?  
I personally know a guy who has been "running around the world" to promote e-cash in the 199X.  He was tremendously enthusiastic about it.  He was in contact with David Schaum.  He was/is also an internet entrepreneur.  He had been promoting Netscape too. I've seen many such enthusiastic people.  And no, the Rotschilds weren't behind him.  I knew him since childhood.  And no, he totally missed the bitcoin train, 10 years later.

A lot of people do run around promoting their own work. That is not a surprise.

How many people do you know run around promoting a complete stranger's work

I gave you an example, I knew personally a guy doing just that, and made a life out of that ("selling hype" I call it, but he had the ability to become *genuinely* enthusiastic about it).  Hell, I've been doing it myself for totally different technology, totally independent of anything from the industries doing it, just because of youthful idealism.  I didn't even want any connections with said industry, because it would put a potential shade on my honest enthusiasm for it, people thinking I was a shill for them.  So I know how it goes.  I most probably acted as a useful idiot back then.

Is your argument that the full power of the Rothschilds consisted in sending Antonopoulos on a trip ?

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[Dorky]

I gave you an example, I knew personally a guy doing just that, and made a life out of that ("selling hype" I call it, but he had the ability to become *genuinely* enthusiastic about it).  Hell, I've been doing it myself for totally different technology, totally independent of anything from the industries doing it, just because of youthful idealism.  I didn't even want any connections with said industry, because it would put a potential shade on my honest enthusiasm for it, people thinking I was a shill for them.  So I know how it goes.  I most probably acted as a useful idiot back then.

Then you are a very different person from the rest.

[dinofelis]

Then you are a very different person from the rest.

There ARE truly, idealistically motivated people, and bitcoin DID most probably have such a crowd.  As I told you, I know what it is like.  Afterwards, you feel stupid, true    But when you are engaged into it, you think you're going to "save the world" and "have a message to bring".   There are such people.  I used to be like that.  I knew other people like that.  You have no idea of the energy that you are willing to put into it totally for free, because you think you have a Purpose.
Any cause that has such people to it, can move the earth, if it depends only on them.

But bitcoin could combine that with greed.  That's why I said, why do you need the Rothschilds, if you have those two unstoppable powers: idealistic enthusiasm and greed, combined !

[dinofelis]

If John Nash was so smart, why wouldn't he have predicted the current problems that bitcoin is facing? (assuming that John Nash was indeed satoshi, which is I theory I doubt to be true).

So, according to John Nash, his vision of Ideal Money was a money that can only be used by extremely wealthy people in the long run? Doesn't make sense to me.

I believe satoshi didn't realize the current problem would arise, and if he thought a network of centralized nodes on datacenters can be called p2p digital cash, then he was wrong.

I agree with you, but the last part he literally said himself (see his mail from 2008 in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1876752.0  )

[Dorky]

There ARE truly, idealistically motivated people, and bitcoin DID most probably have such a crowd.  As I told you, I know what it is like.  Afterwards, you feel stupid, true    But when you are engaged into it, you think you're going to "save the world" and "have a message to bring".   There are such people.  I used to be like that.  I knew other people like that.  You have no idea of the energy that you are willing to put into it totally for free, because you think you have a Purpose.
Any cause that has such people to it, can move the earth, if it depends only on them.

But bitcoin could combine that with greed.  That's why I said, why do you need the Rothschilds, if you have those two unstoppable powers: idealistic enthusiasm and greed, combined !

That's why I believe the rothschilds have done a very good job with bitcoin.

Bitcoin vs tyrannical governments.
Bitcoin vs financial banksters.
What's not to feel passionate about?

[dinofelis]

There ARE truly, idealistically motivated people, and bitcoin DID most probably have such a crowd.  As I told you, I know what it is like.  Afterwards, you feel stupid, true    But when you are engaged into it, you think you're going to "save the world" and "have a message to bring".   There are such people.  I used to be like that.  I knew other people like that.  You have no idea of the energy that you are willing to put into it totally for free, because you think you have a Purpose.
Any cause that has such people to it, can move the earth, if it depends only on them.

But bitcoin could combine that with greed.  That's why I said, why do you need the Rothschilds, if you have those two unstoppable powers: idealistic enthusiasm and greed, combined !

That's why I believe the rothschilds have done a very good job with bitcoin.

Bitcoin vs tyrannical governments.
Bitcoin vs financial banksters.
What's not to feel passionate about?

But why do you need the Rothschilds (financial banksters ?) in this story ?

[no0dlepunk]

I have this feeling that Satoshi is a group of people.

[Dorky]

But why do you need the Rothschilds (financial banksters ?) in this story ?

As they say, be your own bank with bitcoin.
End the paper fiat currency that is a cheat thru persistent inflation and devaluation.
A nice (and noble) passion to fight for.
Only the rothschilds have the expertise and resources to carry through the plan, from global to national level.

[abel1337]

I have this feeling that Satoshi is a group of people.

It has a chance that satoshi nakamoto is a group or he is an individual who is help by a huge group. Creating the bitcoin is a huge thing that only one person I think cant make it alone. We cant find the answer now because satoshi nakamoto isnt revealing him self. And other people is impostering him.

[IadixDev]

Real world dynamics is too complex for complicated conspirational plans to work out, or even to "see it coming", but some people will think A is coming, and some people will think B is coming.  When A is coming, the first lot thinks they are smart.  Within their lot, part of them will see C coming, others will see D coming.  If C is coming, those that saw A and C think they are even smarter.

you don't believe in machiaveli ?

Of course.  I think everybody is following Machiavelli.  But it is not because you PLAN like Machiavelli, that things work out as you planned, simply because there's a lot of competition in applying his evident suggestions.

In fact, it is Machiavelli's universal success that makes that such plans don't work out as expected and that the world is a complicated place.

I'm not saying that nobody is making plans.  I'm saying that many people are making plans, that obstruct one another, and lead to unexpected results.

You think we really know what we are doing or we are governed by things who escape all control ? 

[dinofelis]

You think we really know what we are doing or we are governed by things who escape all control ?  

By thinking that we know what we are doing, we are governed by a dynamics that escapes all control.  But that is not controlled by anybody in particular, but is an emergent dynamics nobody masters.  We are like the molecules in a liquid, thinking that we know how to decide when to boil off.
My (essentially only, with some reserves) goal in life is to try to understand this phenomenon, and then die happily

[dinofelis]

Creating the bitcoin is a huge thing that only one person I think cant make it alone.

It was just the final touch to a pile of inventions for about 10 years before.  Almost all elements were already on the table.  Satoshi just put the elements together, and added a few of himself.

Inventing relativity in 1916 was a much, much, much bigger task than inventing bitcoin in 2008.  And Einstein did it all by himself. 

[dinofelis]

But why do you need the Rothschilds (financial banksters ?) in this story ?

As they say, be your own bank with bitcoin.
End the paper fiat currency that is a cheat thru persistent inflation and devaluation.

This is a naive vision of money.  The fiat system isn't as stupid and cheating as you think.  But it took me some time to understand that too.

Only the rothschilds have the expertise and resources to carry through the plan, from global to national level.

You would be totally out of your mind to kill the system on which your wealth has been based for so long, wouldn't you ?

[IadixDev]

You think we really know what we are doing or we are governed by things who escape all control ?  

By thinking that we know what we are doing, we are governed by a dynamics that escapes all control.  But that is not controlled by anybody in particular, but is an emergent dynamics nobody masters.  We are like the molecules in a liquid, thinking that we know how to decide when to boil off.
My (essentially only, with some reserves) goal in life is to try to understand this phenomenon, and then die happily

Human mind power > electrons

https://youtu.be/wSNHqqazavo

[dinofelis]

You think we really know what we are doing or we are governed by things who escape all control ?  

By thinking that we know what we are doing, we are governed by a dynamics that escapes all control.  But that is not controlled by anybody in particular, but is an emergent dynamics nobody masters.  We are like the molecules in a liquid, thinking that we know how to decide when to boil off.
My (essentially only, with some reserves) goal in life is to try to understand this phenomenon, and then die happily

Human mind power > electrons

Not for long any more in my opinion, but that's besides the question.  I'm not saying this.  I'm saying: Human mind power <<<<< nature is what I claim.

[IadixDev]

You think we really know what we are doing or we are governed by things who escape all control ?  

By thinking that we know what we are doing, we are governed by a dynamics that escapes all control.  But that is not controlled by anybody in particular, but is an emergent dynamics nobody masters.  We are like the molecules in a liquid, thinking that we know how to decide when to boil off.
My (essentially only, with some reserves) goal in life is to try to understand this phenomenon, and then die happily

Human mind power > electrons

Not for long any more in my opinion, but that's besides the question.  I'm not saying this.  I'm saying: Human mind power <<<<< nature is what I claim.

It's not that much beside the point

speculative value is more about active humain decision than natural forces Money is all about added value from natural order in the bottom

[dinofelis]

speculative value is more about active humain decision than natural forces Money is all about added value from natural order in the bottom

I consider the emerging dynamics of the *interplay* of all human decisions as part of "nature", and not as a human decision itself.  Speculative value is at the same time a guess of the outcome of that interplay, and an input to the dynamics itself.
My point is that this complex dynamics is, apart from some general principles, essentially not predictable.  It is a more global version of the efficient market hypothesis in a way: all the obvious is already taken into account, and the rest is essentially entropy to us, which we can only guess, and sometimes, be lucky, and make us believe that we understood something, while we only played at the lottery and won.

[fanita]

That's the advantage of John Nash, is there anyone who wants the problem right?
I think it's somewhat troubled her right ... keep cracking the code code is John Nash

[cellard]

If John Nash was so smart, why wouldn't he have predicted the current problems that bitcoin is facing? (assuming that John Nash was indeed satoshi, which is I theory I doubt to be true).

So, according to John Nash, his vision of Ideal Money was a money that can only be used by extremely wealthy people in the long run? Doesn't make sense to me.

I believe satoshi didn't realize the current problem would arise, and if he thought a network of centralized nodes on datacenters can be called p2p digital cash, then he was wrong.

I agree with you, but the last part he literally said himself (see his mail from 2008 in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1876752.0  )

Big blocks proponents never seem to to consider the centralization that big blocks would inevitably lead the network to. I would respect big blockers if they were clear on their motives and finally admitted that they simply don't care if the network becomes centralized, as long as they get to have their on-chain coffees.


The problem is, their narrative is twisted and intentionally misleading, they never admit the tradeoffs or claim the centralization factor of big blocks is exaggerated.

[dinofelis]

Big blocks proponents never seem to to consider the centralization that big blocks would inevitably lead the network to. I would respect big blockers if they were clear on their motives and finally admitted that they simply don't care if the network becomes centralized, as long as they get to have their on-chain coffees.

As you can see, Satoshi himself considered that mining would be centralized, with a backbone of data centres of miners, and all users connecting directly to one of those data centres, no more P2P.  BTW, the P2P network doesn't mean zilch if the mining is centralized, which it is already.

The problem is, their narrative is twisted and intentionally misleading, they never admit the tradeoffs or claim the centralization factor of big blocks is exaggerated.

But no matter what, any system with competitive rewards will always lead to centralization, whether it is block rewards or fees.  The LN is worse, in fact, because to become a competitive LN hub, you have to own a lot of bitcoin that you can put in channels, before exhausting them.  There are always economies of scale in competitive reward systems.  In fact, small blocks make it worse.  The network aspect is only a very small factor as compared to other means of competitive advantage with scale.  As of now, the majority of mining is in the hands, officially, of 5 pools, and in reality, most probably of 1 or 2 guys.

But mind you, these people will be very strict on the respect of the bitcoin protocol, because they are hugely invested in it ; not in coins, but in hardware.  So you have your faithful bitcoin central bank already.  It is in China.