[2017-02-01] BS: RBI says it hasn't authorised use of Bitcoins; flags risks

[polynesia]

RBI says it hasn't authorised use of Bitcoins; flags risks

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/rbi-says-it-hasn-t-authorised-use-of-bitcoins-flags-risks-117020101273_1.html

The Reserve Bank today said it has not authorised dealings in or use of virtual currencies, and cautioned those investing in the instruments like Bitcoins.

"The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency. As such, any user, holder, investor, trader etc. Dealing with virtual currencies will be doing so at their own risk," it said in a statement.

Those investing in such virtual currencies are exposing themselves to potential financial, operational, legal, customer protection and security related risks, it warned.

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[bitcoinisbest]

RBI says it hasn't authorised use of Bitcoins; flags risks

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/rbi-says-it-hasn-t-authorised-use-of-bitcoins-flags-risks-117020101273_1.html

The Reserve Bank today said it has not authorised dealings in or use of virtual currencies, and cautioned those investing in the instruments like Bitcoins.

"The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency. As such, any user, holder, investor, trader etc. Dealing with virtual currencies will be doing so at their own risk," it said in a statement.

Those investing in such virtual currencies are exposing themselves to potential financial, operational, legal, customer protection and security related risks, it warned.

What does this article indicate, is that bitocin is not yet being made legal in India and all exchanges and site could be cracked by government and a legal proceeding can be followed on them? This is scary and will change and prevent all new users to invest in bitcoin going forward.

[nizamcc]

What does this article indicate, is that bitocin is not yet being made legal in India and all exchanges and site could be cracked by government and a legal proceeding can be followed on them? This is scary and will change and prevent all new users to invest in bitcoin going forward.

Don't worry, they have repeated what they had been, nothing's new. They are trying to make everyone cautious due to the everyday scams that are going on in the country, but we don't know whether they are themselves involved in the trading of bitcoins behind the picture.

[erikalui]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing. How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then? I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions? I thought they were legal sources.

[nizamcc]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing. How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then? I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions? I thought they were legal sources.

I think that these exchanges are not "licensed" at all, because if they would have been, RBI might have been given legality to bitcoins way before. And yes, they might question us our transactions later on, but if we have our transactions' proofs available on hands, then I don't think that there will be any problems. We need to have transparency in our transactions, at least those where we convert our coins to fiat so not to face any problems ahead.

[newIndia]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing.

Which part?

How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then?

Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure have never claimed anywhere that they have RBI license to operate. Neither do eWallets like PhonePe or FreeCharge have any RBI license.

I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions?

It is as good as receiving money from any individual on LocalBitcoins or selling something on OLX. Authorities may question you anytime.

I thought they were legal sources.

They are not illegal sources either.

[btcdevil]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing.

Which part?

How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then?

Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure have never claimed anywhere that they have RBI license to operate. Neither do eWallets like PhonePe or FreeCharge have any RBI license.

I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions?

It is as good as receiving money from any individual on LocalBitcoins or selling something on OLX. Authorities may question you anytime.

I thought they were legal sources.

They are not illegal sources either.

But then it also means that who ever is trading with this exchanges can anytime be questioned about the trades and its sources so it is not good for bitcoin in India.

[newIndia]

But then it also means that who ever is trading with this exchanges can anytime be questioned about the trades and its sources

Yes. Anyone can be questioned anytime. But, that is not restricted to bitcoin. If u buy an iPhone 7 on flipkart or sell a BlackBerry on OLX, u may still be questioned regarding source of fund and taxation respectively.

so it is not good for bitcoin in India.

RBI, as a body to govern banking system in India, is supposed to take care of banks in India. They have no reason to take care of good of bitcoin in India.

[Benson Samuel]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing.

Which part?

How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then?

Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure have never claimed anywhere that they have RBI license to operate. Neither do eWallets like PhonePe or FreeCharge have any RBI license.

I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions?

It is as good as receiving money from any individual on LocalBitcoins or selling something on OLX. Authorities may question you anytime.

I thought they were legal sources.

They are not illegal sources either.

But then it also means that who ever is trading with this exchanges can anytime be questioned about the trades and its sources so it is not good for bitcoin in India.

Yes. This can happen. Nothing different from the current financial system in India.
Exchanges that follow kyc and identification norms can give out information to authorities based on several disclosure, fraud maintenance systems, etc.
None of the Exchanges are trying to supersede this or even claim to protect users in the event that they are using Bitcoin in a questionable fashion.
Coinsecure, does not even buy or sell from customers, we only handle the exchange between people and collect a fee in its regard. We have contacted every possible authority in India with no positive response from them. So, we could either develop this technology further or wait for the law to catch up and we decided to self regulate and work hard on letting people understand it better.

And the RBI has not defined or taken any authority over Bitcoin, so not sure what licences they issue in that regard.
We have spoken to them in dribs and drabs over the years and nothing concrete has come out of it till date.

What we have is a fully registered company that has strong banking relationships and only transacts via those channels. Also, one of the highest paid up capitals/ operational balance across any Indian company to ensure that the law has complete faith on us.
We have very huge transactions on a daily basis via banks and no one involved in legitimate transactions has ever been in trouble.
We have had several enquiries over the years and have co-operated only after getting legal advice on each case. Am sure this the case with all Bitcoin company operators.

[bitcoinisbest]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing.

Which part?

How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then?

Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure have never claimed anywhere that they have RBI license to operate. Neither do eWallets like PhonePe or FreeCharge have any RBI license.

I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions?

It is as good as receiving money from any individual on LocalBitcoins or selling something on OLX. Authorities may question you anytime.

I thought they were legal sources.

They are not illegal sources either.

But then it also means that who ever is trading with this exchanges can anytime be questioned about the trades and its sources so it is not good for bitcoin in India.

Yes. This can happen. Nothing different from the current financial system in India.
Exchanges that follow kyc and identification norms can give out information to authorities based on several disclosure, fraud maintenance systems, etc.
None of the Exchanges are trying to supersede this or even claim to protect users in the event that they are using Bitcoin in a questionable fashion.
Coinsecure, does not even buy or sell from customers, we only handle the exchange between people and collect a fee in its regard. We have contacted every possible authority in India with no positive response from them. So, we could either develop this technology further or wait for the law to catch up and we decided to self regulate and work hard on letting people understand it better.

And the RBI has not defined or taken any authority over Bitcoin, so not sure what licences they issue in that regard.
We have spoken to them in dribs and drabs over the years and nothing concrete has come out of it till date.

What we have is a fully registered company that has strong banking relationships and only transacts via those channels. Also, one of the highest paid up capitals/ operational balance across any Indian company to ensure that the law has complete faith on us.
We have very huge transactions on a daily basis via banks and no one involved in legitimate transactions has ever been in trouble.
We have had several enquiries over the years and have co-operated only after getting legal advice on each case. Am sure this the case with all Bitcoin company operators.

Thanks for the explanation and clearing the doubts of many people in India who would have being thinking on this .

Also as you mentioned that people involved in CS does not buy/sell from CS, so from past couple of days huge volume of buy worth 3 cr, today 1000 btc of approx 7 cr+ was seen in single transaction. This means that a user have transferred from his bank a/c to your a/c 7cr+ 

Now this will catch the regulators eye and questions the person and will reach to you guys and finally they will crack the bitcoin business and its legitimate role may be in place and may even question other exchanges then.

[Benson Samuel]

Thanks for the explanation and clearing the doubts of many people in India who would have being thinking on this .

Also as you mentioned that people involved in CS does not buy/sell from CS, so from past couple of days huge volume of buy worth 3 cr, today 1000 btc of approx 7 cr+ was seen in single transaction. This means that a user have transferred from his bank a/c to your a/c 7cr+ 

Now this will catch the regulators eye and questions the person and will reach to you guys and finally they will crack the bitcoin business and its legitimate role may be in place and may even question other exchanges then.

Yeah, I saw that trade, was confirmed by compliance with double checks/ email clarifications with bank, etc.
Was talking to someone about this earlier today and said that those could be the trades that tips some dynamics of Bitcoin in India.
Only time can tell.

But not going to reject a deposit if it has come through partner banks after full kyc has been done, until we get some limit notification from banks or potential regulators/ industry consensus.

[nizamcc]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing.

Which part?

How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then?

Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure have never claimed anywhere that they have RBI license to operate. Neither do eWallets like PhonePe or FreeCharge have any RBI license.

I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions?

It is as good as receiving money from any individual on LocalBitcoins or selling something on OLX. Authorities may question you anytime.

I thought they were legal sources.

They are not illegal sources either.

But then it also means that who ever is trading with this exchanges can anytime be questioned about the trades and its sources so it is not good for bitcoin in India.

Wait, why not good? If you are trading bitcoins, are you doing anything illegal?
No, right? If you are questioned, you can show them the statements and proofs as sources from which you gained profits (for which you come under the tax circle too if you make more than the determined slabs), but I don't think this should be a problem for anyone who is having all their statements available with them to show if any such questions arise through government or their officials.

[erikalui]

@newIndia: I was thinking that these exchanges will be having some sort of licenses that would make their banking transactions legal and hence if I receive money from these exchanges, the transaction shouldn't be reversed due to any reason. I can definitely prove the source of bitcoins but when I verify my accounts with these exchanges, I do trust them. I don't want to fall in trouble if these exchanges turn out to be involved in any illegal purposes and I lose my money due to them.


The last I heard from Freecharge that they have an RBI license. www.medianama.com/2016/12/223-freecharge-wallet-licence/

[polynesia]

The RBI seems to be more keen on warning people about the risks associated with Bitcoin. In case of a MtGox / Bitfinex like situation (touch wood) in India, people shouldn't think that the RBI had been caught napping.

[Blackshadow007]

The Reserve Bank advises that it has not given any licence/authorisation to any entity/company to operate such schemes or deal with Bitcoin or any virtual currency.

The above statement is confusing.

Which part?

How do exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure get licenses to operate then?

Unocoin, Zebpay, Coinsecure have never claimed anywhere that they have RBI license to operate. Neither do eWallets like PhonePe or FreeCharge have any RBI license.

I receive INR from the exchanges to my bank account and if RBI is saying that I am doing it at my own risk, then will they question me later on about those transactions?

It is as good as receiving money from any individual on LocalBitcoins or selling something on OLX. Authorities may question you anytime.

I thought they were legal sources.

They are not illegal sources either.

But then it also means that who ever is trading with this exchanges can anytime be questioned about the trades and its sources so it is not good for bitcoin in India.

Yes. This can happen. Nothing different from the current financial system in India.
Exchanges that follow kyc and identification norms can give out information to authorities based on several disclosure, fraud maintenance systems, etc.
None of the Exchanges are trying to supersede this or even claim to protect users in the event that they are using Bitcoin in a questionable fashion.
Coinsecure, does not even buy or sell from customers, we only handle the exchange between people and collect a fee in its regard. We have contacted every possible authority in India with no positive response from them. So, we could either develop this technology further or wait for the law to catch up and we decided to self regulate and work hard on letting people understand it better.

And the RBI has not defined or taken any authority over Bitcoin, so not sure what licences they issue in that regard.
We have spoken to them in dribs and drabs over the years and nothing concrete has come out of it till date.

What we have is a fully registered company that has strong banking relationships and only transacts via those channels. Also, one of the highest paid up capitals/ operational balance across any Indian company to ensure that the law has complete faith on us.
We have very huge transactions on a daily basis via banks and no one involved in legitimate transactions has ever been in trouble.
We have had several enquiries over the years and have co-operated only after getting legal advice on each case. Am sure this the case with all Bitcoin company operators.

Thanks for your full explanation benson , Really appreciated it

[polynesia]

As usual, this has been covered by almost all media houses.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/rbi-says-it-hasnt-authorised-use-of-bitcoins-flags-risks/articleshow/56921659.cms
http://www.livemint.com/Industry/xma89nytKOwcDu4hBT30RO/RBI-says-it-hasnt-authorised-use-of-Bitcoins-flags-risks.html
http://www.thehindu.com/business/Economy/RBI-cautions-against-virutal-currencies/article17146932.ece
http://www.indialivetoday.com/rbi-cautions-against-use-of-bitcoins-other-virtual-currencies/113005.html
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-rbi-says-it-hasn-t-authorised-use-of-bitcoins-flags-risks-2306747
http://indianexpress.com/article/business/banking-and-finance/rbi-warns-users-of-virtual-currencies-4504873/
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/economy/rbi-says-it-hasnt-authorised-usebitcoins-flags-risks_8400921.html

[S_D]

The world's accepting bitcoin, it has a market cap of over 16.5 Billion USD right now.
I see no stopping of bitcoin unless the core dev team messes it.

Sure enough we are gonna face huge resistance to things people/govt don't understand.
Soon govt will try and regulate bitcoin rather than pushing it down the illegal drain.

Hang tight!


PS: We need MOAR headline like these. That is how everyone will know about it and we eventually push towards recognition by law.