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Author Topic: Introducing bitcoin is not that easy  (Read 6943 times)
chixka000
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January 28, 2017, 04:26:42 AM
 #1

Yesterday was a research forum of thesis school project and I actually did introduce in our system about using bitcoin as a payment processor aside from paypal,visa, bank transfer or whatsoever. I actually do assume it that no one actually cares so expected things did really happened.

 However there is this one jurry stated that bitcoin is really prawn to money laundering and he ask if how would a certain business owner risk it and that made me realize that he is somehow right and that leads to other quedtion about the exchanger sites which follows KYc policies to prevent or atleast minimize the risk of money laundering however it violates also the main feature of bitcoin which is the anonymous transactions

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January 28, 2017, 04:33:26 AM
 #2

I understood very little of what you're trying to say here.  Have you tried the local boards?  They speak other languages there, probably ones you'd be more comfortable with.  I got that you did a presentation for school and had difficulty getting your point across, which doesn't shock me. 

But you're telling people why they ought to go out of their way to buy a magic internet currency that's extremely volatile, in order to spend it in place of fiat because...?  Good luck trying to convince people of that.  Either you like bitcoin already, or you're not going to be convinced, ever. 


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January 28, 2017, 04:38:06 AM
 #3

this one jurry stated that bitcoin is really prawn to money laundering and he ask if how would a certain business owner risk it and that made me realize that he is somehow right

No. He is not.  There is nothing about bitcoin that makes it any better for money laundering than physical cash.  As a matter of fact, it is significantly worse for money laundering than U.S. dollars.  If you want to launder money, it will be MUCH easier to do with U.S. dollars than with bitcoin.  Therefore, if this is your main concern, then you should use bitcoin and stop using U.S. dollars.

and that leads to other quedtion about the exchanger sites which follows KYc policies to prevent or atleast minimize the risk of money laundering however it violates also the main feature of bitcoin which is the anonymous transactions

Anonymous transactions is not, and never has been a "main feature" of bitcoins.  Anyone that told you that doesn't understand bitcoin very well and is just repeating bad information they've heard elsewhere. Saying it doesn't make it true.

EVERY bitcoin transaction that has ever occurred is permanently stored in the blockchain for the whole world to see.  If you want anonymous transactions, use U.S. dollars.  Bitcoin can be easily traced in most cases, and even if you try to hide your activities there's a pretty good chance that forensic accounting software will come along eventually that can figure it out.

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January 28, 2017, 04:41:34 AM
 #4

Yesterday was a research forum of thesis school project and I actually did introduce in our system about using bitcoin as a payment processor aside from paypal,visa, bank transfer or whatsoever. I actually do assume it that no one actually cares so expected things did really happened.

 However there is this one jurry stated that bitcoin is really prawn to money laundering and he ask if how would a certain business owner risk it and that made me realize that he is somehow right and that leads to other quedtion about the exchanger sites which follows KYc policies to prevent or atleast minimize the risk of money laundering however it violates also the main feature of bitcoin which is the anonymous transactions

Introducing Bitcoin had been easier than before.  There are lots of written documents and presentation that tells about it.  Even case studies on Bitcoin.  So i do not think that introducing it is that difficult.  What difficult is, making people understand what bitcoin is, persuading them to use it instead of the traditional payment processor. It is the interest of people that is hard to get in my opinion, but still this case depends on how well you have played your aces here.

edit: the post before me has cleared some of our misconception of Bitcoin, so probably another reason  is our lack of right knowledge about Bitcoin  makes it more difficult to introduce.



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January 28, 2017, 05:32:17 AM
 #5

I understood very little of what you're trying to say here.  Have you tried the local boards?  They speak other languages there, probably ones you'd be more comfortable with.  I got that you did a presentation for school and had difficulty getting your point across, which doesn't shock me. 

But you're telling people why they ought to go out of their way to buy a magic internet currency that's extremely volatile, in order to spend it in place of fiat because...?  Good luck trying to convince people of that.  Either you like bitcoin already, or you're not going to be convinced, ever. 

Well, I am just trying to present since i am an IT students and we are talking innovation, how could they promote IOT  but not IOM?

this one jurry stated that bitcoin is really prawn to money laundering and he ask if how would a certain business owner risk it and that made me realize that he is somehow right

No. He is not.  There is nothing about bitcoin that makes it any better for money laundering than physical cash.  As a matter of fact, it is significantly worse for money laundering than U.S. dollars.  If you want to launder money, it will be MUCH easier to do with U.S. dollars than with bitcoin.  Therefore, if this is your main concern, then you should use bitcoin and stop using U.S. dollars.

and that leads to other quedtion about the exchanger sites which follows KYc policies to prevent or atleast minimize the risk of money laundering however it violates also the main feature of bitcoin which is the anonymous transactions

Anonymous transactions is not, and never has been a "main feature" of bitcoins.  Anyone that told you that doesn't understand bitcoin very well and is just repeating bad information they've heard elsewhere. Saying it doesn't make it true.

EVERY bitcoin transaction that has ever occurred is permanently stored in the blockchain for the whole world to see.  If you want anonymous transactions, use U.S. dollars.  Bitcoin can be easily traced in most cases, and even if you try to hide your activities there's a pretty good chance that forensic accounting software will come along eventually that can figure it out.

 I actually stated that one as well to defend my project then he stated as quoted " im telling this not because i dont like or have understood bitcoin that much however in bitcoin there were no rules that can easily convict a person in doing so"

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January 28, 2017, 05:48:20 AM
 #6

Introducing Bitcoin had been easier than before.  There are lots of written documents and presentation that tells about it.  Even case studies on Bitcoin.  So i do not think that introducing it is that difficult.  What difficult is, making people understand what bitcoin is, persuading them to use it instead of the traditional payment processor. It is the interest of people that is hard to get in my opinion, but still this case depends on how well you have played your aces here.

In depth knowledge should not be targeted for on a newbie introduction. There is some footage on Youtube that is presentable, and flipping through some several websites like Bitfinex et. all. should transport the picture of "something big incoming"

For the curious some Question & Answers section following days afterwards makes sense to me. Learning curve, timespans and all of that.

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January 28, 2017, 06:10:56 AM
 #7

Introducing Bitcoin had been easier than before.  There are lots of written documents and presentation that tells about it.  Even case studies on Bitcoin.  So i do not think that introducing it is that difficult.  What difficult is, making people understand what bitcoin is, persuading them to use it instead of the traditional payment processor. It is the interest of people that is hard to get in my opinion, but still this case depends on how well you have played your aces here.

In depth knowledge should not be targeted for on a newbie introduction. There is some footage on Youtube that is presentable, and flipping through some several websites like Bitfinex et. all. should transport the picture of "something big incoming"

For the curious some Question & Answers section following days afterwards makes sense to me. Learning curve, timespans and all of that.

Dept knowledge being imparted to newbie as introduction for me is really not good especially if to whom you were talking has no idea about anything that you have said. Ive tried this before explaining to my friend an advance bitcoin lesson how ever he keeps on asking the same question all over then i decided to allow him experience first and learn the basic of how bitcoin works

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January 28, 2017, 06:20:23 AM
 #8

Introducing Bitcoin had been easier than before.  There are lots of written documents and presentation that tells about it.  Even case studies on Bitcoin.  So i do not think that introducing it is that difficult.  What difficult is, making people understand what bitcoin is, persuading them to use it instead of the traditional payment processor. It is the interest of people that is hard to get in my opinion, but still this case depends on how well you have played your aces here.

In depth knowledge should not be targeted for on a newbie introduction. There is some footage on Youtube that is presentable, and flipping through some several websites like Bitfinex et. all. should transport the picture of "something big incoming"

For the curious some Question & Answers section following days afterwards makes sense to me. Learning curve, timespans and all of that.
I think it will still be very difficult to introduce bitcoin. In developing countries and are unfamiliar with the system would be very difficult to make people believe with bitcoin, because they already have a real doctrine that bitcoin has many risks. I've also tried to introduce a bitcoin to some of my friends in the community, but they know bitcoin for drug transactions and a lot of scam so it is not safe, although there are some who are interested but most claimed are not interested. I think most people need to see proof that they believe in, and it was very difficult. But I'm sure as time goes bitcoin will be able to take sympathy of many people.
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January 28, 2017, 06:23:55 AM
 #9

Well, I thought, I never feel what you feel.
introduces bitcoin, made me so eager to explain it from all sides, until the profit can be made. but, they do not trust it, and said that bitcoin is simply a token that is used for gambling, and it is a scam. Well, sometimes it makes me ashamed. I think, they just need to see evidence to believe that bitcoin, could be an alternative to other payment processor.



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January 28, 2017, 06:57:52 AM
 #10

well it's true that bitcoin can be used for money laundering, especially if you pay in bitcoin directly for goods that come from another country

how the government(fiscal agent(whatyouwant are gonna know you are paying $1k+ in illicit bitcoin to buy stuff that no one know the value about? you can't really do the same with cash so easily
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January 28, 2017, 07:23:06 AM
 #11

Actually your panelist is somehow intelligent upon saying this.
" im telling this not because i dont like or have understood bitcoin that much however in bitcoin there were no rules that can easily convict a person in doing so"
But as a panelist maybe he is really that type of person that still needs to be explained on how really bitcoin is working. Because base on your statement on how things did go, he is just looking for the negativity which he just overheard about bitcoin for being used for money laundering. But what you are doing is good, innovation.



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January 28, 2017, 07:40:51 AM
 #12

However there is this one jurry stated that bitcoin is really prawn to money laundering and he ask if how would a certain business owner risk it and that made me realize that he is somehow right and that leads to other quedtion about the exchanger sites which follows KYc policies to prevent or atleast minimize the risk of money laundering however it violates also the main feature of bitcoin which is the anonymous transactions

Thats actually where the hard part is because telling someone the advantage bitcoin possesses, you will just be so free to say it and elated at that as well but when it comes to the disadvantages which is the untraceable then everybody mind goes to the terrorists, money launderers, porn sites among other things thinking they are the only ones needing privacy in their transactions but at the same time people who dont engage in such things deserve privacy as well. The feeling that I can do this transaction and no one can know where I live is fundamental.

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January 28, 2017, 07:47:28 AM
 #13

The difficulty in introducing bitcoin is one of the major hindrances of bitcoin being known to all. The volatility of it makes it look like a scam when you introduce  it to people who have no background in crypto. I myself thought way back in 2013 when I first heard of bitcoin that it is a scam.
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January 28, 2017, 08:04:53 AM
 #14

Actually your panelist is somehow intelligent upon saying this.
" im telling this not because i dont like or have understood bitcoin that much however in bitcoin there were no rules that can easily convict a person in doing so"
But as a panelist maybe he is really that type of person that still needs to be explained on how really bitcoin is working. Because base on your statement on how things did go, he is just looking for the negativity which he just overheard about bitcoin for being used for money laundering. But what you are doing is good, innovation.

Bitcoin is being used for money laundering there's no doubt about that, but in his case, he is unable
to defend his introduction of bitcoin properly resulting, to a negative image of bitcoin. But introducing
bitcoin is never easy but if you were to introduce it you should be able to answer the question they may
have to convince them about the possibilities of bitcoin.

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January 28, 2017, 08:05:50 AM
 #15

i have a feeling that you are making it too hard when explaining it.

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January 28, 2017, 08:23:29 AM
 #16

Op I think you did not do a good job in explaining Bitcoins. You might not have used the correct language and it's evident with the kind of response you got. Every one says Bitcoin cause money laundering, but before Bitcoin wasn't Fiat doing the same. Bitcoin is just a fraction and this money laundering is a big deal xcuse of people who do not understand it. As far exchanges are concerned, they will have to comply with the laws as they operating a business and local laws shall apply to them, you can't find fault with that.

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January 28, 2017, 08:29:38 AM
 #17

Yesterday was a research forum of thesis school project and I actually did introduce in our system about using bitcoin as a payment processor aside from paypal,visa, bank transfer or whatsoever. I actually do assume it that no one actually cares so expected things did really happened.

 However there is this one jurry stated that bitcoin is really prawn to money laundering and he ask if how would a certain business owner risk it and that made me realize that he is somehow right and that leads to other quedtion about the exchanger sites which follows KYc policies to prevent or atleast minimize the risk of money laundering however it violates also the main feature of bitcoin which is the anonymous transactions

I think what you are asking is, how can bitcoin be anonymous when you have to provide KYC at exchanges and also is bitcoin prone to money laundering.  And these are pretty simple to answer.

first of "yes" bitcoin is prone to money laundering but so is the dollar or the pound or the rupee and we should not punish the vast majority of law abiding citizens who use a technology just because a few use it for criminal enterprise.

and second yes most people will have to give over details at an exchange, which means that their bitcoin can be traced to the 1st address it moves to,  but good luck proving that any address the coins go to after that is owned by them.  Grin
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January 28, 2017, 08:51:52 AM
 #18

it may be very difficult to introduce it in an organization, or in the classroom, because surely there will be people who want to bring you down. but I guess, it is very easy to introduce bitcoin in a group that you know, and to those who really want to know.

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January 28, 2017, 08:58:23 AM
 #19

Actually your panelist is somehow intelligent upon saying this.
" im telling this not because i dont like or have understood bitcoin that much however in bitcoin there were no rules that can easily convict a person in doing so"
But as a panelist maybe he is really that type of person that still needs to be explained on how really bitcoin is working. Because base on your statement on how things did go, he is just looking for the negativity which he just overheard about bitcoin for being used for money laundering. But what you are doing is good, innovation.

Bitcoin is being used for money laundering there's no doubt about that, but in his case, he is unable
to defend his introduction of bitcoin properly resulting, to a negative image of bitcoin. But introducing
bitcoin is never easy but if you were to introduce it you should be able to answer the question they may
have to convince them about the possibilities of bitcoin.

We all know about that with bitcoin's negative side but this is just applicable to those who are abusers as they use bitcoin for it. I guess chixka is not well prepared for it. I want to know if they wanted you to re-defense your thesis but still with bitcoin. Because if that thesis promotes helpful thing for the economy and society, it must be treated neutral, that panelist is just a real close minded one.



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January 28, 2017, 09:16:33 AM
 #20

   You had some sort of presentation and when hurry started to ask questions you didnt have answers.
    Money laundering is happening with fiat for a long time, its hypocritical from fiat lovers to judge bitcoin. Why dont they clean their yard before they even start to talk about other yards! This kind of attitude is really annoying, dont lose your nerves in trying to explain, like The Pharmacist said: " Good luck trying to convince people of that.  Either you like bitcoin already, or you're not going to be convinced, ever. " Respect!
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