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Author Topic: People complaining about how hard it is to generate  (Read 6921 times)
MoonShadow
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November 15, 2010, 08:55:31 PM
 #41


How does it look for a non-tech newbie, when he is told he first have to buy bitcoins to use the system? Or sell things for bitcoins?
That's not the way it works.


That's exactly how it works.  It's money, that's the point.

BTW, if you want to give away your bitcoins, or argue to others to voluntarily grant a share of their coins to new users; I'm all for that.  However, if anything close to what you have proposed should ever become compulsory, I'll abandon Bitcoin entirely.  I imagine that many others would as well.

So either you won't use the system as it is, or I won't use the system as you would wish it to be; which is the greater loss?  I can't say, but by your own admission, you don't have any money anyway and I'm pretty sure that, between the two of us, I'm the one with the education in Economics.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 15, 2010, 09:04:58 PM
 #42

I think there are two things to distinguish:

1) How to easily acquire bitcoins
This should really be very simple if we want to have bitcoin usage growing. At the same time, it should not be mandatory to give it out free. If some people chose to do so, fine.
I compare it a bit with seeds. To enjoy a growing apple tree you have to go into a store and buy seeds. If your neighbor gives you a couple of seeds, nice from him, but you shouldn't go to your neighbors garden and steal the apples.

2) How to generate
This is like gold mining. A novice with a spade alone won't be able to get a lot of gold. But this is fine, because gold miners invest a lot of resorces (capital, people, technology) into it. They have deserved to mine more gold as John Doe Average.

The only thing we need to be careful is managing expectations. It should be clarified in the client, on bitcoin.org, etc. what people can expect to generate with a couple of different computers systems (standard PC, laptop, server clusers, etc... at least ballpark figures). There is really no need to change the system, but we all do not want to disappoint new (potential) bitcoin users.

Makes sense?

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November 15, 2010, 09:08:24 PM
 #43

If you want to give your coins away the faucet accepts them too.
Bruce Wagner
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November 15, 2010, 11:40:07 PM
 #44

Let's imagine we can distribute a same part of the 21 millions bitcoins for everyone in the world.  Say, 7 billions humans.  That will be 0.003 BTC.  Ok, everything is fine and fair, now, hum ?  For how long ?  What to do with every new born child after that, hum ?  And after some time, when some people will just spend their bitcoins and return to nothing, while some others will just hoard bitcoins, you'll have the same inequalities you were complaining about.  So what was you point ?  You were happy to create a fair and equal world during a few days, a few weeks maybe ?  This is stupid.

Take away ALL the money from the smart and rich.   Give ALL of it to the less intelligent and the lazy.   Within no time at all...   All that money will be back in the hands of the smart again.   It's been proven time and time again throughout history.

Money is only "fair" when it is earned, spent, and given.   Not when it is taken away compulsorily.
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November 16, 2010, 12:24:58 AM
 #45

It's not about necessary to "start out" with with some...

Yes, IMHO it is essential that every new bitcoin user gets at least a little starter kit to spend.
like the starter kit we get from paypal, or liberty reserve, or moneybookers?
we already do, don't we?
it's zero, equal to all of us.
and still we use paypal, liberty reserve, moneybookers without complaining about not getting free money in advance.

i dont get it.

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November 16, 2010, 12:45:36 AM
 #46

I think the system should be designed to automatically give people in the US more bitcoin....   because we are fatter.    Therefore, we need more money....   to pay for food....   and larger clothing.
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November 16, 2010, 03:24:21 AM
 #47

I know..lets print lots and lots of money then we will all be rich....oh wait.
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November 16, 2010, 07:12:28 AM
 #48

like the starter kit we get from paypal, or liberty reserve, or moneybookers?

Actually, That was part of PayPal's origins.   Before being acquired by PayPal, Elon Musk's x.com was giving each new account $5 seed money.  This was marketing genius and one of the first "viral" growth stories on the Internet.

I just learned about Bitcoin the other day, and hope to build up my Bitcoin wallet a little by selling some stuff on BiddingPond: http://www.biddingpond.com/active_auctions.php?user_id=103





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November 16, 2010, 08:27:20 AM
 #49

like the starter kit we get from paypal, or liberty reserve, or moneybookers?

Actually, That was part of PayPal's origins.   Before being acquired by PayPal, Elon Musk's x.com was giving each new account $5 seed money.  This was marketing genius and one of the first "viral" growth stories on the Internet.

I just learned about Bitcoin the other day, and hope to build up my Bitcoin wallet a little by selling some stuff on BiddingPond: http://www.biddingpond.com/active_auctions.php?user_id=103


That is a lot different though. PayPal had investors, and the currency they were using already had value to people. Also they required you to prove who you were to get the $5, that would break a major advantage of bitcoin.

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November 17, 2010, 05:53:14 PM
 #50

What I'm wondering is  ... is it fair since Bitcoin was much easier to generate earlier?

It's like inheriting wealth.  Most of the buik of the current 4.6 million BTC in existence today ( per http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/ ) was earned with much less effort than the next 4.6 million BTC will require.

So by moving to BTC we would just be slaves to a different master (those who were first-movers / early adopters), right?

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November 17, 2010, 06:49:14 PM
 #51

What I'm wondering is  ... is it fair since Bitcoin was much easier to generate earlier?

It's like inheriting wealth.  Most of the buik of the current 4.6 million BTC in existence today ( per http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/ ) was earned with much less effort than the next 4.6 million BTC will require.

So by moving to BTC we would just be slaves to a different master (those who were first-movers / early adopters), right?

Sure, but I'll help you with your chains.  I'll buy all the coins you have for 10 cents each and you can then run away from all this.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 17, 2010, 07:36:46 PM
 #52

What I'm wondering is  ... is it fair since Bitcoin was much easier to generate earlier?
Nothing in life is fair Smiley
The distribution of the bitcoins doesn't matter that much. Though it scares me a bit too how many of them are already around, sitting idle. Someone could get the idea of selling them and ruin everything.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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November 17, 2010, 07:45:17 PM
 #53

What I'm wondering is  ... is it fair since Bitcoin was much easier to generate earlier?
Nothing in life is fair Smiley
The distribution of the bitcoins doesn't matter that much. Though it scares me a bit too how many of them are already around, sitting idle. Someone could get the idea of selling them and ruin everything.

Maybe they'd even sell them to me! At a very low price! The horror  Grin

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November 17, 2010, 08:48:04 PM
 #54

I invested $2200 in a bitcoin mining machine, and it's not even half paid back yet. So, I'm actually in the hole right now for mining. That is not "free money for the elite".

Please don't tell me that it's not fair that I get coins out of the miner. This is what we call an "investment", AND, it makes YOUR coins more secure from tampering.

EDIT: AND with difficulty increasing I am also risking my hard earned money on the chance I won't even be able to pay it off.

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1608/8----This-is-nuts

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November 18, 2010, 04:12:22 AM
 #55

Hmmm.   So who's really the "slave" and who's really the "master"...?  Smiley
Did anyone get rich from mining very early on?
I wonder how many bitcoin Satoshi owns.      Smiley
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November 18, 2010, 04:20:06 AM
 #56

Hmmm.   So who's really the "slave" and who's really the "master"...?  Smiley
Did anyone get rich from mining very early on?
I wonder how many bitcoin Satoshi owns.      Smiley

Enough that he has a strong motivation to continue developing the system regardless of burnout, and enough to make him a wealthy man upon Bitcoin's mainstream success if he hasn't sold too many of his coins.  He certainly has the genesis block, which has never been transfered to any other address according to Bitcoin Explorer., which I understand has a premium value, as at least one other forum member was willing to pay 10 times the market value for the genesis block coins.  I want Satoshi to be wealthy for what he has done here.  He can't do well without many others doing well, including myself.  And I care not at all who might think that is unfair.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 18, 2010, 05:12:56 AM
 #57

Did anyone get rich from mining very early on?
depends,
not if coins have been sold, or spent very early on,
but maybe those who bought them.

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November 18, 2010, 05:16:15 AM
 #58

And I care not at all who might think that is unfair.

+1
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November 18, 2010, 10:50:21 AM
 #59

I want Satoshi to be wealthy for what he has done here.  He can't do well without many others doing well, including myself.  And I care not at all who might think that is unfair.

+11. And I want Satoshi to win the Nobel Prize for Economics too. I wonder if he can collect that anonymously?
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November 18, 2010, 11:35:45 AM
 #60

From the FAQ: http://www.bitcoin.org/faq

> At the moment, though, you can generate new coins quite profitably,

So, .., that probably should get updated?

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