There is no price discovery...

[revans]

only the manipulation of MtGox

It is obvious that not only are they totally manipulating the price action, they are running ghost trades and faking volume.

[revans]

The price dropped 80% over the course of five days and you're surprised it's bouncing back again?

MtGox ran the price up in the first place.

[meangreen]

The price dropped 80% over the course of five days and you're surprised it's bouncing back again?

MtGox ran the price up in the first place.

+1

[SgtSpike]

The price dropped 80% over the course of five days and you're surprised it's bouncing back again?

MtGox ran the price up in the first place.

Here's a tinfoil hat for ya.   

[Wuji]

only the manipulation of MtGox

It is obvious that not only are they totally manipulating the price action, they are running ghost trades and faking volume.

I don't doubt you as I don't have the answers but, when making accusations evidence of the obviousness would help to validate.  Right now it looks like a series of bull traps on the way down from what I am seeing.

Did the great manipulator really lay dormant for 2 years and now has returned? 

[Kluge]

Yeah. It basically has me looking at Bitcoin (and associated price volatility) as a money volcano. Every day, up $40, down $40. You can't lose!

[meangreen]

They were printing money all the way up to $266. They have no one to answer to and no rules to follow. Its like the wild wild west.

[samson]

If MtGox ran the price up in the first place I'm pretty sure they would have done it in a much more subtle way than a full on parabolic increase followed by a crash.

[meangreen]

If MtGox ran the price up in the first place I'm pretty sure they would have done it in a much more subtle way than a full on parabolic increase followed by a crash.

would you want to wait years for your millions or have it right now?

[YoYa]

[revans]

They will run the price up to 80-85 and then it will collapse again. Like clockwork.

[SgtSpike]

They will run the price up to 80-85 and then it will collapse again. Like clockwork.

Looks like one tinfoil hat wasn't enough - here, better double up!

[Wuji]

They will run the price up to 80-85 and then it will collapse again. Like clockwork.

Looks like one tinfoil hat wasn't enough - here, better double up!

Hell buy some industrial rolls and build a house.  It doesn't matter to me if it is the speculators I assume run it up or a manipulator.  The important thing is profit at this point until the price is stable.

[meangreen]

i am sorry but the blocks of coins and the money we are talking about here cant be a bunch of kids. there is some serious money manipulating the price. plain and simple.

[meangreen]

i am looking at the bid side. there are hundreds of limit buys between $75 and $76. you mean to tell me someone is going to buy 300 coins x 75 on the way down??

[Kluge]

i am sorry but the blocks of coins and the money we are talking about here cant be a bunch of kids. there is some serious money manipulating the price. plain and simple.

It took a lot of coins to equal $1 back in the day when only basement-dwellers had the time to even figure out what the Hell a "Bit-coin" is.

[Wuji]

i am sorry but the blocks of coins and the money we are talking about here cant be a bunch of kids. there is some serious money manipulating the price. plain and simple.

Maybe they are manipulating and setting bull traps but, that is not to be unexpected.  The market cap is low and a group could easily bond together with a few $100 million and move the price.

On the other hand there are plenty of bulls as evidenced on this forum who will buy back in every time the price is PERCEIVED low.  There are also plenty of those same sheep who will panic sell.  This happens with every other investment, why is BTC different?  AAPL had a sell off from $800 down to $400 in no time.  Look at what happened to gold yesterday.  That wasn't some rich genius, it is just speculators speculatin'.  Learn the snafu and profit, this game is easy.

[meangreen]

750 share block just went through.

[meangreen]

1400 shares on ask went through. someone knows something

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

So who's doing it and when will it drop again?

This is the toughest learning experience since puberty.

I know nothing and need to pay attention is what I have learned so far.

Still don't know if it's a good idea to buy right now or not.  I need to use a few coins within a few days but obviously don't want to buy right now if this is a trap.
Seems to me, atm, the price won't fall while people are buying, so I am just chasing it, waiting for a small dip to buy in and finding none.  
Ask wall coming up on the floor @79.98. 222 coins.  Does that count as a wall?
Just how easy is it to manipulate the price at several different exchanges at once?
Right now I am just chasing the price.
Where is my fairy Godmother?
They just blew right through the 'wall' like it was nothing....Holy shite.
Do I buy in now!?
Think I'll just go hyperventilate in a corner somewhere.....  

[meangreen]

So who's doing it and when will it drop again?

This is the toughest learning experience since puberty.

I know nothing and need to pay attention is what I have learned so far.

Still don't know if it's a good idea to buy right now or not.  I need to use a few coins within a few days but obviously don't want to buy right now if this is a trap.
Seems to me, atm, the price won't fall while people are buying, so I am just chasing it, waiting for a small dip to buy in and finding none.  
Ask wall coming up on the floor @79.98. 222 coins.  Does that count as a wall?
Just how easy is it to manipulate the price at several different exchanges at once?
Right now I am just chasing the price.
Where is my fairy Godmother?
They just blew right through the 'wall' like it was nothing....Holy shite.
Do I buy in now!?
Think I'll just go hyperventilate in a corner somewhere.....  

i would just wait til you need to use the coins, then buy them. just my 2c

[Wuji]

So who's doing it and when will it drop again?

This is the toughest learning experience since puberty.

I know nothing and need to pay attention is what I have learned so far.



Think I'll just go hyperventilate in a corner somewhere.....  

Be very patient and keep waiting till the price stops moving like a yo-yo.  This game never lasts forever and the price will find a bottom regardless of who is doing what.  After a couple weeks when it starts back with slow growth buy coin.  Hold it, have patience, and one day profit.  When it starts going up like mad and you can't figure out why sell at huge profit before it drops and ignore the BS from permabulls.  Don't get greedy and ride the next bubble back down.  If it doesn't hit a bottom and start to slowly trend up speculation and volatility will quickly force lots of people out.  Either way it will find a bottom.  If someone is manipulating it doesn't matter.  At some point they have to go away for a while and let it level off if they want to play the game.

I still don't think it is a conspiracy.  With all the hype a lot of risk takers came in with money.

Some are currently buying at their perceived value while others are panicking still.

[meangreen]

i see it now. buyers are going to be drying up with these swings.

[meangreen]

oh the pain(ala dr zachary smith on lost in space) limit bids are getting crushed

[RodeoX]

Why do people always want a bad guy? There is always a secret society or aliens or a manipulator pulling the strings. If only the world was that interesting.

[meangreen]

buyers are drying up. people are smartening up. why throw good money after bad

[fitty]

Uncle Gox will look out for us. 

buyers are drying up. people are smartening up. why throw good money after bad

[meangreen]

im out. you all have a great day

[BitcoinAshley]

Wait, is this another Occupy Wall St. Bear thread with someone blaming Gox on all of our troubles?  Aren't there like 10 threads like this every day? You don't belong here, you belong on the Alex Jones youtube channel fighting with trolls in the comment threads.

Hey dreamscape, should have bought last night when it was $50 ;-)

If you don't know much about the market, your best bet is to buy and hold, and definitely not more than you can afford to lose. Some folks think that we are on our way to single digits and bitcoin is on its way out and we should all go back to Fiat. Some folks think we will stay in the $50-100 range for a while before going back up again, and some folks think the next rally is days away.

Learn about the fundamentals of bitcoin, its uses and applications, and the corruption in the current system of fiat banksters. If that inspires you and you believe in bitcoin, buy at the current price and hold. Long-term, this hasn't failed anyone yet with bitcoin. Your other option is to "speculate" i.e. learn as much as you can about the price movement, keep up with news, but at this point it's anybody's guess as to what happens in the next week or two.

[adamstgBit]

given the nature & history of the bitcoin, I think all good speculators were expecting these wild swings.

hopefully in 10 years time, bitcoin is trading in the 5,000-10,000$ range and the yearly swings are down to 30 - 50%

in 50 years,  bitcoin will be making new all time highs all day everyday and the sentiment will be that it simply will NEVER crash gaining 1-5% value per year with no end in sight.

yup its going to get really boring when people are paying taxes in bitcoin...  

[ElectricMucus]

...the market, ... buy and hold, ... not more than you can afford to lose. ... go back to Fiat.... the next rally ... the fundamentals ... hold. Long-term,

Ultimately this is all pointless, as again they’re repeating magic words back and forth: securities, stocks, bids, investments, shares, escrow, profit. None of it actually does anything, none of it goes anywhere, they’re trading chits because that’s what they’ve seen the real investors do.

you see to make fun of somebody you must at least understand them.

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

Thanks for the advice, guys.  
I was trying to save money and buy on the cheap end, but this is ridiculous; you're right.  I'm just going to wait.

I really enjoy this forum and all the different opinions and voices of experience.
Still trying to figure out who is who, but it's nice having it to sift through and even the perceived idiots here aren't half as bad as main stream media's goons.

Bitcoin tabs are down and I am going to go eat, finally. lol

Take it easy, guys.

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

Hey dreamscape, should have bought last night when it was $50 ;-)

If you don't know much about the market, your best bet is to buy and hold, and definitely not more than you can afford to lose. Some folks think that we are on our way to single digits and bitcoin is on its way out and we should all go back to Fiat. Some folks think we will stay in the $50-100 range for a while before going back up again, and some folks think the next rally is days away.

Learn about the fundamentals of bitcoin, its uses and applications, and the corruption in the current system of fiat banksters. If that inspires you and you believe in bitcoin, buy at the current price and hold. Long-term, this hasn't failed anyone yet with bitcoin. Your other option is to "speculate" i.e. learn as much as you can about the price movement, keep up with news, but at this point it's anybody's guess as to what happens in the next week or two.

Haha, I was watching it like a hawk when it hit >50 and spiked back up suddenly. I think I went into shock and had no clue what to do, so I fell asleep with the live graphs running and woke up to what I considered "a pretty steady rise".  lol

Been speculating heavily since before the drop and it didn't do me a bit of good b/c I didn't go with my gut. But in the long run, I don't want to be a speculator.
I do believe in the principle and am trying my best to get behind it.  Guess I'm sort of weak, but with these daily excercises maybe I can have strong hands before long.

Still not sure if the price will drop significantly again before the steady climb we are all hoping for, guess no one knows.  With the info I have gathered today, there is a good chance it will drop at least a bit before it stabalizes. 
Think I will wait for a slight drop, then buy in with all the fiat in my account and hold.  If it goes down, I just won't use the coin until it meets my original price again. But I like to think it will go up when the next rally hits and continue a steady climb.

Meanwhile, I guess it's time to study terms and acronyms so that I can at least talk the talk and impress....some idiot.  Thanks again.

[Qoheleth]

If they're manipulating the price action, they're either getting fleeced by arbitrageurs or by market makers.

It's no way to run a profitable exchange.

[alexh]

The market is just too inefficient compared to others, in the latest occurences mostly.

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

Glad I listened to you guys.  Price is down somewhat from earlier.  It's mostly bots putting in tiny bids to drive it down, right?  Someone may hate me for asking, but is there any way for exchanges like bitfloor/Mt Gox to stop the manipulation? I understand the need for bots to an extent, but they're being abused. 

The few financially minded people I have spoken to about bitcoin say they love the concept, but price manipulation is just too easy and it will never be effective as a currency or way to trade until this can be stopped.

Otherwise, they said they would be all for it.
They also questioned, "What is bitcoin's true value?" which I don't think there is an answer to, yet.  I heard the number $3,333 thrown out there once, but can't find the thread to see who said it and what their background is to determine if it was a legitimate guess or not.

[nebulus]

More power to them as long as they get it up into 1000s... Lol...

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

More power to them as long as they get it up into 1000s... Lol...

Not before I buy back in!!  >o< 

[cul]

lol @ manipulation.

welcome to the market boys & girls.

[ElectricMucus]

Inefficient market is inefficient.

Just the way we like it isn't it? 

[notme]

Glad I listened to you guys.  Price is down somewhat from earlier.  It's mostly bots putting in tiny bids to drive it down, right?  Someone may hate me for asking, but is there any way for exchanges like bitfloor/Mt Gox to stop the manipulation? I understand the need for bots to an extent, but they're being abused. 

The few financially minded people I have spoken to about bitcoin say they love the concept, but price manipulation is just too easy and it will never be effective as a currency or way to trade until this can be stopped.

Otherwise, they said they would be all for it.
They also questioned, "What is bitcoin's true value?" which I don't think there is an answer to, yet.  I heard the number $3,333 thrown out there once, but can't find the thread to see who said it and what their background is to determine if it was a legitimate guess or not.

Price manipulation can only be stopped by increasing the "market cap". (I know, not the best term, but people understand what I mean).  The fact is, this market is too tiny to not be vulnerable to whales.  That said, every whale is taking big risks and will likely be washed out by a bigger whale at some point.

[meangreen]

Price manipulation can only be stopped by increasing the "market cap". (I know, not the best term, but people understand what I mean).  The fact is, this market is too tiny to not be vulnerable to whales.  That said, every whale is taking big risks and will likely be washed out by a bigger whale at some point.

very well put.

[Malawi]

Glad I listened to you guys.  Price is down somewhat from earlier.  It's mostly bots putting in tiny bids to drive it down, right?  Someone may hate me for asking, but is there any way for exchanges like bitfloor/Mt Gox to stop the manipulation? I understand the need for bots to an extent, but they're being abused. 

The few financially minded people I have spoken to about bitcoin say they love the concept, but price manipulation is just too easy and it will never be effective as a currency or way to trade until this can be stopped.

Otherwise, they said they would be all for it.
They also questioned, "What is bitcoin's true value?" which I don't think there is an answer to, yet.  I heard the number $3,333 thrown out there once, but can't find the thread to see who said it and what their background is to determine if it was a legitimate guess or not.

It's also the pump and dump method.

The BTC market is tiny compared to most other markets, if someone have put in $50.000 into the market, the would have had 1000 BTC if they bought at $50. They can then put out a sale offer that is slightly above the going rate with one account, and then buy that from the another account. This will make it seem like the market goes up.

This might be done in several steps over a small timeframe. At the same time a high buy offer is put in to illustrate that there is a lot of demand. When enough people have put in orders to buy around the new price, the high buy offer is retracted, and are replaced with a large sell order.

They make a few % surplus every time, and since the input is high, it quickly adds up.

[ruski]

The BTC market is tiny compared to most other markets, if someone have put in $50.000 into the market, the would have had 1000 BTC if they bought at $50. They can then put out a sale offer that is slightly above the going rate with one account, and then buy that from the another account. This will make it seem like the market goes up.

This might be done in several steps over a small timeframe. At the same time a high buy offer is put in to illustrate that there is a lot of demand. When enough people have put in orders to buy around the new price, the high buy offer is retracted, and are replaced with a large sell order.

They make a few % surplus every time, and since the input is high, it quickly adds up.

Wait, if I'm reading that right, this is pretty much what I was doing (sans multiple accounts) to profit from back and forth swings. You're calling that manipulation?? Welcome to the free market!

Watch the order book, any time an order above ~170 appears on the buy side or ~300 on the sell side, it will shortly vanish. They're only there to get speculators moving their bids/asks in front, to push the market up/down.