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It is a common myth that Bitcoin is ruled by a majority of miners. This is not true. Bitcoin miners "vote" on the ordering of transactions, but that's all they do. They can't vote to change the network rules.
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sAt0sHiFanClub
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March 18, 2015, 08:01:10 PM |
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we're doomed
Im just pissed at verto for running off with all the bitcoins I spent on coke for last weekend at Loaded's request. I feel used.
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Andre#
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March 18, 2015, 08:02:37 PM |
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As I recall, your original claim was that it would be possible for 'any kid with a laptop' to effectively remove the 21M bitcoin cap. This is NOT an example of that happening.
After a hard fork, as long as both branches survive, there are twice as many bitcoins around. If you had 100 BTC before the fork, then after the fork you have 100 "Series A" BTC and 100 "Series B" BTC. As I clearly said every time, whether people bother to mine and use each Series is a political and marketing qestion. There is no technical obstacle to both series of bitcoins surviving and retaining some value (but quite likely their combined total value will be no greater than what the "Series A" were worth before the fork). At the last hard fork, everyone agreed to abandon the "Series A" bitcoins and use only the "Series B" ones. If we have another hard fork to increase the block size, some people seem to be willing stay on the "Series A" branch. I don't know what will happen, but, agan, it will be decided by political processes, not by technical mechanisms. Do you really not understand that when you say 'series A bitcoin' and 'series B bitcoin', you are really saying 'bitcoin', and 'some altcoin'? It's true that you will have a free supply of 100 units of the alt coin, which may or may not retain value over time, depending on whether anyone continues to mine it - but you will still only have 100 bitcoins - whichever branch eventually establishes itself as the 'real' bitcoin. Why do you bother? I don't know if he can qualify as a tldr-troll or just a stubborn idiot, but he won't budge. And he sort of shows the limitations of other people I respect on this forum. He's managed to engage people like oda.krell and others in long winded discussions where he is impervious to reason, but manages to make them believe that they are having a real discussion rather than him using them as his soapbox. It's no use. Let it be. I concur. Just leave him. You gave it your best, and everybody (with the possible exception of Jorge himself and the NLC family) agrees with you.
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AZwarel
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March 18, 2015, 08:03:35 PM |
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As I recall, your original claim was that it would be possible for 'any kid with a laptop' to effectively remove the 21M bitcoin cap. This is NOT an example of that happening.
After a hard fork, as long as both branches survive, there are twice as many bitcoins around. If you had 100 BTC before the fork, then after the fork you have 100 "Series A" BTC and 100 "Series B" BTC. As I clearly said every time, whether people bother to mine and use each Series is a political and marketing qestion. There is no technical obstacle to both series of bitcoins surviving and retaining some value (but quite likely their combined total value will be no greater than what the "Series A" were worth before the fork). At the last hard fork, everyone agreed to abandon the "Series A" bitcoins and use only the "Series B" ones. If we have another hard fork to increase the block size, some people seem to be willing stay on the "Series A" branch. I don't know what will happen, but, agan, it will be decided by political processes, not by technical mechanisms. Do you really not understand that when you say 'series A bitcoin' and 'series B bitcoin', you are really saying 'bitcoin', and 'some altcoin'? It's true that you will have a free supply of 100 units of the alt coin, which may or may not retain value over time, depending on whether anyone continues to mine it - but you will still only have 100 bitcoins - whichever branch eventually establishes itself as the 'real' bitcoin. Why do you bother? I don't know if he can qualify as a tldr-troll or just a stubborn idiot, but he won't budge. And he sort of shows the limitations of other people I respect on this forum. He's managed to engage people like oda.krell and others in long winded discussions where he is impervious to reason, but manages to make them believe that they are having a real discussion rather than him using them as his soapbox. It's no use. Let it be. I just wrote him a detailed reply how the consensus mechanism works. I think i have nailed it and he understands, if not, i has the power of ignore:)
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michaelGedi
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"
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March 18, 2015, 08:03:48 PM |
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Wandererfromthenorth
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March 18, 2015, 08:10:11 PM |
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LOL!
Bitfinex longs are now even higher than before the dump!
$22.4M
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SnokkomBTC
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March 18, 2015, 08:12:19 PM |
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Lol, I think we are a little bit oversold.
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podyx
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
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March 18, 2015, 08:12:41 PM |
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Some longs definately have to get burned Remember, this could be the last beartrap, it has to be decently believable atleast
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macsga
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
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March 18, 2015, 08:16:19 PM |
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Some longs definately have to get burned Remember, this could be the last beartrap, it has to be decently believable atleast Wisely spoken. Are the dumped coins over yet? Or were not there at all and this is all orchestrated?
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HalFinneysBrain
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March 18, 2015, 08:16:42 PM |
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What the heck, why are margin longs increasing and shorts decreasing on this drop? I wouldve thought it would be the opposite.
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dreamspark
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March 18, 2015, 08:17:23 PM |
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What the heck, why are margin longs increasing and shorts decreasing on this drop? I wouldve thought it would be the opposite.
Exactly why this is very very bad.
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solex
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
100 satoshis -> ISO code
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March 18, 2015, 08:18:11 PM |
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I am not sure, but i think you do not understand how the bitcoin network works. Every day we have several "hard forks" in the form of orphaned blocks. You simply do not understand the consensus mechanism, if you insist that A and B blockchains can coexists - with the same mining power behind them!- for more than say 2 consecutive blocks (on avg 20 minutes), and that they both individually represents bitcoin as per se. No, they do not.
The whole point of the consensus mechanism is to only and ever follow the longest chain of blocks in the long run, a.k.a. deciding which chain of blocks (A vs B) represents reality, and totally disregard transactions happened in the less long chain of blocks once a the n+1 block found. Hence your theoretical "B" chain would be instantly will be abandoned by the majority of miners (mining is automated by algorithm, not a press a button every ~10 min if you accept or not), resulting in that all the nodes will continue downloading and propagating the longer A chain, essentially destroying the B chain by the time the next block found. That B chain n-1 block became an orphaned block.
Yes, you can mine your own forked "B" copy of the blockchain at your laptop - offline! - until you start synchronise with the network, your B chain gets instantly overwritten by the majority A chain.
Also, your B chain will not ever propagate because: the moment you fork, you also inherit the difficulty of the A chain. That difficulty is so high, that your laptop will practically never finds the next block (which by the way will be without any transactions, since you are offline from the main A chain nodes), and without no new block, your offline node/mining copy will never reach enough blocks (aprx 2600) to reduce difficulty. This means that B chain will be hopelessly shorter than the A chain -> rejected by all miners/nodes on A chain.
TLDR.: Your idea will never work -not even in theory, since you missing the point in the first place- because the whole point of the PoW census is to have only ONE representation of the true about transactions (unspent BTCs sitting on addresses). By the way any full node wallet has the whole copy of the blockchain, every time you go offline more than 1 block, your copy is forked from A chain to B chain (n-1 long blockchain)....
EDIT: if you think that the state of the blockchain is a political decision, you are seriously should STOP posting bullshit here please. You do not understand the very basic idea: consensus through mathematical proof independent of central authority ( which is politics...)
Well Said! The sad truth is that not only does Jorge fail to comprehend how PoW consensus works, but he also fails to understand why Bitcoin is sound money. He has spent a year on here, most of that time totally wasted, including the time of many of us here in this forum who are willing to learn from others.
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Ayle56
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March 18, 2015, 08:18:18 PM |
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What the heck, why are margin longs increasing and shorts decreasing on this drop? I wouldve thought it would be the opposite.
Where are you getting your information about longs and shorts from?
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dreamspark
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March 18, 2015, 08:19:14 PM |
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What the heck, why are margin longs increasing and shorts decreasing on this drop? I wouldve thought it would be the opposite.
Where are you getting your information about longs and shorts from? http://bfxdata.com/
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adamstgBit
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
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March 18, 2015, 08:20:59 PM |
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What the heck, why are margin longs increasing and shorts decreasing on this drop? I wouldve thought it would be the opposite.
Where are you getting your information about longs and shorts from? http://bfxdata.com/i like to watch this page first graph http://bfxdata.com/combined/btc.php
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ghandi
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March 18, 2015, 08:22:07 PM |
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AZwarel
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March 18, 2015, 08:23:31 PM |
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EDIT: if you think that the state of the blockchain is a political decision, you are seriously should STOP posting bullshit here please. You do not understand the very basic idea: consensus through mathematical proof independent of central authority ( which is politics...)
Well Said! The sad truth is that not only does Jorge fail to comprehend how PoW consensus works, but he also fails to understand why Bitcoin is sound money. He has spent a year on here, most of that time totally wasted, including the time of many of us here in this forum who are willing to learn from others. Thanks, appreciated:) Well, i do everything i can to learn. Even finished that MOOC of Nicosia Univ., i had the privilege to learn from Andreas M. A. himself! That is why i am frustrated with all the miss information some spread here; the knowledge is available and free, yet they choose to remain in ignorant.
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HalFinneysBrain
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March 18, 2015, 08:24:44 PM |
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Why are some people so stupid. Good, interesting, undervalued altcoin projects exist with interesting features. But they waste their money on paycon instead.
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