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Question: Closing BTC Price June 17:
$0 - 2 (1.5%)
<$6,500 - 7 (5.4%)
$6,500-$6,750 - 1 (0.8%)
$6,751-$7,000 - 2 (1.5%)
$7,001-$7,250 - 3 (2.3%)
$7,251-$7,500 - 6 (4.6%)
$7,501-$7,750 - 4 (3.1%)
$7,751-$8,000 - 12 (9.2%)
$8,001-$8,250 - 13 (10%)
$8,251-$8,500 - 7 (5.4%)
$8,501-$8,750 - 6 (4.6%)
$8,751-$9,000 - 11 (8.5%)
$9,001,$9,250 - 13 (10%)
$9,251-$9,500 - 17 (13.1%)
>$9,500 - 17 (13.1%)
$20,000 - 9 (6.9%)
Total Voters: 130

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21225462 times)
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12345mm
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April 03, 2015, 12:36:37 PM

the killer app of bitcoin is the ability to speculate on the price of bitcoin ... that's the ultimate truth ... here's some random inconvenient (bad) aspects of bitcoin that render it inappropriate for anything but speculation / a bad one at that ...

-as a payment mechanism , you get to pay a % fee , either with circle/coinbase or as wire transfer fee to overseas exchanges simply to buy bitcoin in the first place ... adding extra expense , not to mention time delay and inconvenience , to whatever you want to buy vs "legacy" payment systems , some of which actually *pay you* to use their service (credit card rewards / cashback rewards) ...

-using bitcoin requires that you have easy access to the "legacy" payment infrastructure anyway (bank account/credit card to send money to exchanges/link to circle or coinbase) ... unless of course you want to pay a double digit % markup / risk being stabbed and robbed in an in-person (localbitcoins) transaction ...

-as a store of value , it is extremely unstable and volatile , and therefore not a "store of value" as such , since you don't know what the value will be tomorrow ... could be $10 could be $1000 , depending on whether 10s/100s of millions are taken out of the loop or injected into the loop (a tiny amount of $ in the world of finance) ... it is far more appropriate to compare it to a speculative investment class than to a solid store of value , such as real estate or physical metals ...

-unlike "traditional" speculative investment classes , such as stocks released all at once with an initial public offering , bitcoin is constantly released onto the market via newly mined coins , as such , with bitcoin there is a non-stop selling pressure / maintenance cost built into the system (the natural direction for bitcoin to head in is DOWN simply as a result of the mining mechanism ... the only way for bitcoin value to go UP is for all+more of the newly mined coins to be bought/held out of circulation ... something that is by no means a guarantee to occur ... nevermind existing coins being dumped into the market)

-unlike every other investment class available , bitcoin is largely not regulated or insured against theft by existing exchanges , and due to the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions theft is extremely easy , functionally forcing anyone who wants to hold any amount of bitcoin to be adequately tech-savvy to store and secure their own bitcoins ... something far beyond the ability of most people ...

please resume normal trading ... nothing to see here ... btw yikes on the $5 swings in 2 minutes on finex

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ChartBuddy
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April 03, 2015, 12:58:41 PM

Coin
Explanation
empowering
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April 03, 2015, 01:02:19 PM

Weird history lesson


More holes than Swiss cheese
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April 03, 2015, 01:04:34 PM

it's bear pong time !
DeadCoin
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April 03, 2015, 01:07:11 PM

Weird history lesson


More holes than Swiss cheese

How about you refute them? His points seem valid to me.
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April 03, 2015, 01:10:43 PM

And therein lies the rub--no central authority to prevent people from using it however they wish.
Since Bitcoin lends itself so well to speculation, people will speculate.
Since its pseudonymity makes it a nearly ideal scamming instrument, that's what it will be used for.
Satoshi tried to make greed and selfishness of participants eliminate the need of a trusted third party.  You're asking us to disregard our basic tenets: "greed is good" & "Invisible Hand is the only regulator we need," and appealing to ...what, our civic duty?

I agree to few of your sayings, but not all...
I ain't saying or appealing to any of our duties, I am saying that if you want this to succeed, that too in a better way, you need to do something for it...
You can't blame Satoshi for participants' greed and selfishness as it's people's own choice, Satoshi made it to show the world something new, something innovative...

If you want to change something, you need to be the first to initiate the process as you can't expect someone to come and help you or others to do that...
And if you said is true, i.e.; Bitcoins are trustless, then these innovations like Blockchain and other things associated to Bitcoins are worthless as if they are only being used for the purpose which you put into your prior posts...

Still, I have faith in it and I am a believer...
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April 03, 2015, 01:21:17 PM


Still, I have faith in it and I am a believer...







see you guys, signing off for now.
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April 03, 2015, 01:25:10 PM



Still looking good.
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April 03, 2015, 01:41:04 PM

And therein lies the rub--no central authority to prevent people from using it however they wish.
Since Bitcoin lends itself so well to speculation, people will speculate.
Since its pseudonymity makes it a nearly ideal scamming instrument, that's what it will be used for.
Satoshi tried to make greed and selfishness of participants eliminate the need of a trusted third party.  You're asking us to disregard our basic tenets: "greed is good" & "Invisible Hand is the only regulator we need," and appealing to ...what, our civic duty?

I agree to few of your sayings, but not all...
I ain't saying or appealing to any of our duties, I am saying that if you want this to succeed, that too in a better way, you need to do something for it...
You can't blame Satoshi for participants' greed and selfishness as it's people's own choice, Satoshi made it to show the world something new, something innovative...

Satoshi's contraption is only interesting if it works regardless of how the participants use it, that should be self-evident.  Money for good, thoughtful, honest people doesn't require schemes of complexity that'd make Rube Goldberg blush.  There would be no need to to build ridiculous thumb-twiddling ASICs with the sole purpose of burning gigawatts of electricity.
A simple email app & a calculator would suffice for the honor system.  Or a small notebook with a sharp pencil.  Or decent memory and a handshake.  That good memory is not even strictly required--if you forget how much money you owe me, I'll remind you.
Satoshi, OTOH, set out to make money for IRL people.

Quote
If you want to change something, you need to be the first to initiate the process as you can't expect someone to come and help you or others to do that...
And if you said is true, i.e.; Bitcoins are trustless, then these innovations like Blockchain and other things associated to Bitcoins are worthless as if they are only being used for the purpose which you put into your prior posts...

Still, I have faith in it and I am a believer...

Blockchain is an interesting, though, granted, clumsy and astonishingly labor-intensive, solution to the Byzantine Generals Problem.  In a way, it borders with solving the Traveling Salesman problem by trying all the possible routes.  In other words, not useless, but not the pinnacle of elegance, either.

But Satoshi did something he may/may not have intended:  He created a microcosm of compressed time, where events taking endless millenia--progression from decentralised, single-cell soup to complex, highly centralized thinking organisms--is played out in a matter of years.  So that's something.
empowering
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April 03, 2015, 01:42:58 PM
Last edit: April 03, 2015, 02:09:00 PM by empowering

Weird history lesson


More holes than Swiss cheese

How about you refute them? His points seem valid to me.

.....what.... again?

If you watch this show.....  and I trust that you do.

Long time viewers will know.....

That these subjects have been talked over and addressed ad nauseam.

Simply put, things change, things do not remain in a static state, change is not always linear.

Things are in the very process of changing.

Once upon a time rear view mirrors and steering wheels impaled people on a regular basis.


But to keep it short....(because boring topics and I am busy)


1) No speculation is so obviously not the "killer app" of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency/Blockchain technology. No surprises here.

2) There can be fees depending on how you use BTC, but you can also use it for free, and there are developments on this on a ongoing basis, and things will change in the future. No surprises here. Plus it looks to me like fraud in terms of credit card fraud is starting to get more out of hand. Also the idea that credit cards are free is a complete fallacy, banks and credit card companies , do nothing for free, I repeat banks and credit card companies, do nothing for free, not a single thing, nadda, zip , zilch..... those staff, and buildings and computer networks, and fraud and security experts (and on and on) are not free, and every service a bank provides leads them to profit in some fashion, otherwise they would not be doing it.... that being said, the financial system is so broken and corrupt, that even these companies are struggling to keep making profit, hence soon they will charge you to keep your money in a bank, while other banks are leaving retail banking all together, and others saying they do not need to issue loans or take deposits anymore. So the banking industry is also constantly changing. No surprises here.

3) At this stage,  it is not a steady store of value, but, things change,  larger liquidity exchanges and wider use could level off volatility in the future, assuming continued adoption, also at this stage some people like the volatility. No surprises here.

4) Bitcoin is not a traditional investment, and  also the release of new coins is not endless, it is very specific and known values, known by all in advance. No surprises here.
+
5) There are no guarantees in any form of investment, technology,   or finance, there are less risky investments, with lower potential for rewards, and there are higher risk investments with higher potential for reward. No surprises here
+
6) Bitcoin and crypto is becoming regulated in certain aspects, and in others it is regulated by its protocols , which are open for all to see, furthermore the risks involved in holding in custody your own coins, can be mitigated via having in place, segmented low attack surface, well thought out cyber security and hygiene in place. No surprises here.
+
The fact that it is not regulated is known by all, the stakes are the same for all, there is a level playing field, and again is a situation that is constantly changing, either being clarified or literally the laws are being written as we speak. But we all know the situation, no surprises here.

7) No one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to use, take up, adopt, trade or speculate in cryptocurrencies.

We all know the history, and the state of play.




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April 03, 2015, 01:58:42 PM

Coin
Explanation
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April 03, 2015, 02:13:47 PM

[double-spaced gibberish.  Padding?]
the killer app of bitcoin is the ability to speculate on the price of bitcoin ... that's the ultimate truth...
1) No speculation is so obviously not the "killer app" of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency/Blockchain technology. No surprises here.

Ah, the trusty "No ur rong!" gambit.

Quote
2) There can be fees depending on how you use BTC, but you can also use it for free.

Yeah, you can use cash for free too.  Try using BTC without tx fees, tho-see how that works.  Wait for the miners to stop using 10% yearly inflation to pay for their work, and watch tx fees skyrocket.

Quote
3) At this stage,  it is not a steady store of value, but, things change...

"Shit will work out, bro, really.  You just gotta believe!"  
Can't argue with that.

Quote
4) Bitcoin is not a a traditional investment, and  also the release of new coins is not endless, it is very specific and known values, known by all in advance. No surprises here.

10% yearly monetary base inflation, with nothing but some drug & CP bazaars for underlying economy, is pretty ridiculous.  No, no surprises there, I agree.

Quote
5) There are no guarantees in any form of investment...

Whelp, why not invest in my clonecoin?  Much better upside than BTC, lower price & I promise will become Milky Way's reserve currency.

Quote
6) Bitcoin and crypto is becoming regulated in certain aspects.

Yep.  getting BANNED in Russia this summer Smiley

Quote
7) No one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to use, take up, adopt, trade or speculate in cryptocurrencies.

We all know the history, and the state of play.

You THINK you know.
I have it on good authority that a chipmunk's memory lasts only a few days (hence all the forgotten buried acorns & shit).  Are you so presumptuous as to suggest yours is better than a chipmunks?
You need an occasional refresher, and 12345mm was nice enough to help.  He did that less than an hour ago, and you already forgot to thank him.

Thank him now, lest you forget.
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April 03, 2015, 02:18:36 PM

Brain scrambling bullshit

I am not even reading that shit, literally I tired a few words and got bored and I could just feel the shrillness after a few words

You are now on ignore.

If you reply to this you are an insane mental with the IQ of a cow.

See ya
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April 03, 2015, 02:22:06 PM


Quote
4) Bitcoin is not a a traditional investment, and  also the release of new coins is not endless, it is very specific and known values, known by all in advance. No surprises here.

10% yearly monetary base inflation, with nothing but some drug & CP bazaars for underlying economy, is pretty ridiculous.  No, no surprises there, I agree.


lets not forget about the coins i offer for BTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=368598.0

when you buy a coin from me you know I do not convert BTC payments to my local currency.
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April 03, 2015, 02:23:35 PM

I still have hope for 300$ for next week, if price will go down more, I will buy more. I don't sell under 300, selling under 250$ is also crazy.
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April 03, 2015, 02:28:06 PM

Bulls are here  Grin
Quote
>300 in <2weeks?
yes   - 40 (48.8%)
no   - 27 (32.9%)
maybe   - 15 (18.3%)
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April 03, 2015, 02:33:03 PM

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April 03, 2015, 02:37:31 PM

I still have hope for 300$ for next week, if price will go down more, I will buy more. I don't sell under 3000, selling under 2500$ is also crazy.

Fixed it for you.
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April 03, 2015, 02:41:35 PM


Quote
4) Bitcoin is not a a traditional investment, and  also the release of new coins is not endless, it is very specific and known values, known by all in advance. No surprises here.

10% yearly monetary base inflation, with nothing but some drug & CP bazaars for underlying economy, is pretty ridiculous.  No, no surprises there, I agree.


lets not forget about the coins i offer for BTC
...

Adam tries to do business with fellow Bitcoiners.  Gets robbed Sad

...
he got the letter and claimed it had nothing but the bitcoin business cards which i use to protect the coins in transport, I not sure what happened there, so i gave him a refund.

Next time be more careful, Adam.  These people can't be trusted--a veritable viper pit here Angry
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April 03, 2015, 02:45:03 PM

Trolls keep trollin', meanwhile bid support at 250 rising steadily...
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