JayJuanGee
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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June 28, 2016, 06:44:37 PM |
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Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.
I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact. P.S. Welcome back. You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East. That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed! Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections. If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.  The logic seems reasonable, but it'd still prefer to see some facts. You would have to do it across all exchanges simultaneously. Split BTC10k only puts like BTC2k on each major exchange and then market sell? How much slippage will that get you? What will you do with all those yuans after that? What are the chances that another whale gets you and market actually moves against you? Now you sold your coins for cheap and got to buy them back at higher rate OTC? I'm sure it does happen, but would probably take more than BTC10k What's most likely is someone cornering the Chinese miners, wouldn't be surprised if one broker contracted them all, and all mined coins have been already presold with futures. Luckily that funny business would be cut in half in about 10days I believe that we largely agree. I used 10k BTC as an example, but yeah of course depending on the level of shenanigans is going to take a larger number of coins to achieve larger levels of control, but it is not unreasonable to be happening by some of the larger players. Furthermore, surely I also agree with your assessment of various risks that are involved in attempting to make these kinds of plays whether you are a manipulator or not.. and as the bitcoin marketcap grows, the amount of capital needed to make such plays becomes higher and higher. I think that part of the point with some of the larger manipulators also will be to attempt to undermine bitcoin in various ways on fundamental and perception levels, and they do not necessarily mind operating at somewhat of a loss if they are able to achieve their objectives to keep the BTC prices down and to keep the prestige of bitcoin down. However, there is some amount of losing battle aspect in this whole matter of pushing BTC prices down as long as bitcoin continues to be adopted on a broader and broader level by more and more folks, it becomes more and more difficult to keep the prices down through these kinds of OTC manipulation behaviors, and these powers that be in the government and financial institutions just have to allow for some upwards BTC price movements. If these various powers that be (TPTB) in the government and the status quo financial institutions had their druthers, bitcoin would not have surpassed $500 for more than just a blip.. and now, we are kind of stuck with these higher BTC prices, and TPTB are going to be much less and less convincing in their various attempts at spreading FUCD about BTC because the actual facts of the upward moving price kind of speak in a very concrete way against their various propaganda points. Anyhow, BTC is in a very decent place right now, even if prices were to get pushed down into the lower $500s... and really it seems that there would be a considerable struggle to accomplish such a pushing down of BTC prices and I have my doubts about what kinds of resources would be needed to achieve such pushing down of prices to such lower $500s levels. Sure, on a personal level (as likely smaller players), each of us gotta prepare ourselves for BTC price movements in either direction.. but stacking our BTC holdings a bit lopsided in favor of upwards price movements seems like a reasonably likely profitable play even with such likely ongoing manipulations taking place behind the scenes. |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10130
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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June 28, 2016, 08:46:34 PM |
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250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.
Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings. What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins? 1) gets eaten before the price moves down below $625 and the price goes up passed $660 2) gets removed before the price moves down below $625 and the price goes up passed $660 3) the price moves down below $625. 4) the price stays between $625 and $650 forever. hahahahahaha... Which one? I am inclined towards number 1 or 2, and maybe a tad bit more inclined towards 1, but I don't claim to be any kind of short term expert. The more important question is price direction between below $608 and above $685 - and above $685 seems more likely than below $608, but I really would not be surprised either way. |
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dumbfbrankings
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June 28, 2016, 09:00:57 PM |
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250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.
Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings. What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins? It's all just noise between the occasional whale splash. I just put that in so my reply to an off-topic post wouldn't get censored, again. |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10130
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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June 28, 2016, 09:12:42 PM |
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250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.
Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings. What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins? It's all just noise between the occasional whale splash. I just put that in so my reply to an off-topic post wouldn't get censored, again. Hahahahaha.. You goofball... You don't really want to discuss anything substantive regarding bitcoin or its prices or its walls; however, you put something substantive in your earlier nonsense post in order that your post will not be removed, a procedure that you call "censored." Let me clarificize this "censorship" matter for you... .. removing off topic posts is not "censorship," it should be more appropriately referred to as cleaning up trolls and shills, which you pretty much admit to being one of those  |
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dumbfbrankings
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June 28, 2016, 09:17:03 PM |
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250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.
Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings. What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins? It's all just noise between the occasional whale splash. I just put that in so my reply to an off-topic post wouldn't get censored, again. Hahahahaha.. You goofball... You don't really want to discuss anything substantive regarding bitcoin or its prices or its walls; however, you put something substantive in your earlier nonsense post in order that your post will not be removed, a procedure that you call "censored." Let me clarificize this "censorship" matter for you... .. removing off topic posts is not "censorship," it should be more appropriately referred to as cleaning up trolls and shills, which you pretty much admit to being one of those If applied evenly, it would be called moderation. As it is applied selectively to those deemed "trolls and shills" by the party, it's called censorship. So now you know... Cheers! $800 2nite? |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10130
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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June 28, 2016, 09:28:18 PM |
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250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.
Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings. What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins? It's all just noise between the occasional whale splash. I just put that in so my reply to an off-topic post wouldn't get censored, again. Hahahahaha.. You goofball... You don't really want to discuss anything substantive regarding bitcoin or its prices or its walls; however, you put something substantive in your earlier nonsense post in order that your post will not be removed, a procedure that you call "censored." Let me clarificize this "censorship" matter for you... .. removing off topic posts is not "censorship," it should be more appropriately referred to as cleaning up trolls and shills, which you pretty much admit to being one of those If applied evenly, it would be called moderation. As it is applied selectively to those deemed "trolls and shills" by the party, it's called censorship. So now you know... Cheers! $800 2nite? Regarding your first point: Finally, you are attempting to engage and stay topical.... .. even though you are not correct in your conclusion. The last time that I checked this forum fell into the private sector space, and it is not run or controlled by any government, therefore "censorship" does not fit this situation. Regarding your second point: Anything can happen in bitcoin, but reaching $800 in the next 12 to 24 hours seems to be pretty slim chance, though not impossible. I recognize that you are not really predicting $800, but instead you are merely engaging in ongoing trolling - attempting to bait folks to come out with overly exuberant predictions in order that you can later rightfully proclaim that they were wrong. |
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XCASH
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Merit: 1000
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June 28, 2016, 09:52:08 PM |
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I read that Mr Karpeles paid Jed McCaleb a dollar a Bitcoin when he bought it off him. He may have bought 100,000 Bitcoins off Jed McCaleb. If there was 80,000 BTC already missing they might have been worth 80,000 dollars at the time, which isn't close to the astronomical sum they were worth when it went bankrupt. In this story Jed McCaleb says he asked Mr Karpeles to do some programming work on Gox before he bought it, so Mr Karpeles had the opportunity to tamper with Gox before it changed hands. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/mtgoxs-founder-jed-mccaleb-lost-50000-held-bankrupt-bitcoin-exchange-1447050 |
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dumbfbrankings
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June 28, 2016, 09:58:29 PM |
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If applied evenly, it would be called moderation. As it is applied selectively to those deemed "trolls and shills" by the party, it's called censorship. So now you know...
Cheers!
$800 2nite?
Regarding your first point: Finally, you are attempting to engage and stay topical.... .. even though you are not correct in your conclusion. The last time that I checked this forum fell into the private sector space, and it is not run or controlled by any government, therefore "censorship" does not fit this situation. - From the book of knowledge: "Censorship is the suppression of free speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.[1] Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship." So you're wrong, which is OK, realizing the depths of one's wrongness is the path to enlightenment.  Fine, $700 2nite? |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10130
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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June 28, 2016, 10:33:03 PM |
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If applied evenly, it would be called moderation. As it is applied selectively to those deemed "trolls and shills" by the party, it's called censorship. So now you know...
Cheers!
$800 2nite?
Regarding your first point: Finally, you are attempting to engage and stay topical.... .. even though you are not correct in your conclusion. The last time that I checked this forum fell into the private sector space, and it is not run or controlled by any government, therefore "censorship" does not fit this situation. - From the book of knowledge: "Censorship is the suppression of free speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.[1] Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship." So you're wrong, which is OK, realizing the depths of one's wrongness is the path to enlightenment. Fine, $700 2nite? 1) I still believe that censorship is too strong a word and an inaccurate description for the particular referred to activity regarding your posts and the posts of some other troll/shills in which owners of mediums (such as this forum) have the right and discretion to keep their forums reasonably clear of disruptive and nonsubstantive clutter. In fact, your trolling and shilling activities frequently distract from substantive BTC related discussions, and therefore, they devalue the forum and dissuade from meaningful and substantive posts... Accordingly, censorship doesn't fit this situation, even though technically you could be correct that non-governmental entities could partake in such conduct under some circumstances. 2) I think $700 is also optimistic as a 10% increase, but sure, $700 is more likely than $800 (which would be a 25% increase), and surely $700 is within reach, even though it kind of feels a bit in the distance at the moment because we have to break through the resistance between the current price and $685.. and then $700 becomes even more within reach and plausible. |
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BeefUsher
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June 28, 2016, 10:38:01 PM |
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Gentlemen, stop! ur both rong.
$1,200 and 2 human females for everyone!
CCMF! [...text effects...]
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savetherainforest
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June 28, 2016, 10:58:19 PM
Last edit: June 28, 2016, 11:08:52 PM by savetherainforest |
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Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections. If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth. You maybe talking about billionaires and huge companies or corporations... But I'm talking about the common folk.And we are not talking about the volumes. We are talking about ideologies!I said that the people from Eastern cultures are more likely to do under the table deals than the scared, paranoid, under surveillance... Western common folk!
I doubt that broad generalizations serve anyone.
We are going to find a variety of behaviors based on amount of capital and access, and likely a large number of regular folks that have mediocre amounts of capital (let's say purchasing less than 10 coins at a time) are going to be using regular available channels for such purchases (and other trading activities).
Surely, smaller volume traders, unless they just happen to have some kind of connection, are not going to either be able to negotiate some special arrangement outside of exchanges or even be benefitted by some special arrangement.. yeah, maybe they have a friend or an arrangement, but that is likely to be the exception rather than the rule.Too Damn Long Do Not Try Too Read!!!Take again my example of some higher volume person purchasing 10k BTC or some variation of such, they are likely willing to pay a bit higher than the exchange price in order to acquire a large quantity of coins and not affect slippage.... and there also may be some other shenanigans going on with those kinds of large volume folks that acquire a lot of coins and dump them on exchanges in order to push the price down off of the exchanges while acquiring for a lower price off exchanges. Too Damn Long Do Not Read!!!We cannot form generalizations about all of this activity because there is a multitude of activities affecting prices, but there remains an incentive for such off exchange deals and purchases in which prices are pushed down on exchanges by coins that had been bought off of exchanges, whether east, west, weast or snourth. ... What do you think most of the majority of those with 10k will do?... Answer: They will crash and burn trough it with silly investments and ventures! ... But mostly it will go to the little people!!! ... Cuz they have to pay the little people.. and the little businesses providing little things for the little people! So the cycle continues in favor of the little people!But my point being with West / East ... was that the East will have more infrastructure set in place when the time comes for the big kahunas to invest in projects and spend their 10k coins... the wealth will gather in those places! And it will go away from the West... comprende? capisci? Your walls of text give me headaches! .. I usually skip and don't read them too much if its longer than a few lines from you! ... You can try and take some artistic writing classes! To make it at least pleasurable! ... Cause now you are just torturing people!  |
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yefi
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June 28, 2016, 11:01:05 PM |
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It was mentioned here at the time. It does tickle me that after encouraging Karpeles to conceal the loss and attempt to cover it, Jed McCaleb went on to create Ripple, the in-bed-with-banks ledger... |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
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Activity: 3696
Merit: 10130
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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June 28, 2016, 11:24:27 PM |
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[edited out]
So... Nope! ... What do you think most of the majority of those with 10k will do?... Answer: They will crash and burn trough it with silly investments and ventures! ... But mostly it will go to the little people!!! ... Cuz they have to pay the little people.. and the little businesses providing little things for the little people! So the cycle continues in favor of the little people!Talking about little, what you say makes little to no sense. But my point being with West / East ... was that the East will have more infrastructure set in place when the time comes for the big kahunas to invest in projects and spend their 10k coins... the wealth will gather in those places! And it will go away from the West... comprende? capisci?
if you are asserting that an appreciating asset, such as bitcoins are being accumulated in other parts of the world, then there could be some truth to that. If you say that there could be some redistribution of wealth going on, there could be some truth to that, as well, but none of these kinds of practices and concerns are exactly systematic nor planned, but some persons making investment of their wealth into a potentially appreciating asset, such as bitcoin, could be the beneficiaries of redistribution of wealth. None of this redistribution of wealth is for sure because there are a lot of other dynamics that still need to play out. Your walls of text give me headaches! .. I usually skip and don't read them too much if its longer than a few lines from you! ... You can try and take some artistic writing classes! To make it at least pleasurable! ... Cause now you are just torturing people! You should be the one to talk with your random bolding of text and your largely nonsensical and seemingly stream of consciousness sets of ideas. |
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Ted E. Bare
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June 28, 2016, 11:26:13 PM |
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Bitcoin Block Reward Halving Countdown: Only 11 more days! Reward drop ETA: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:05:58 GMT |
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PigUsher
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June 28, 2016, 11:48:19 PM |
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^Am I the only one who thinks "minorities..."?
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Hyperjacked
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It's all mathematics...!
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June 28, 2016, 11:59:41 PM |
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PPL should not forget that we have legendary silver manipulators among us that will take all your btc and never look back...
of course it is being manipulated by an elite few on the same page !
look what they did with the silver prices over the past 10 years and how they are kept artificially low...
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PigUsher
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June 29, 2016, 12:03:35 AM |
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look what they did with the silver prices over the past 10 years and how they are kept artificially low...
What if their families have been keeping prices artificially low for centuries, and plan to keep them artificially lower for aeons to come? 2spooky... |
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savetherainforest
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June 29, 2016, 12:38:03 AM
Last edit: June 29, 2016, 04:13:10 AM by savetherainforest |
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[edited out]
So... Nope! ... What do you think most of the majority of those with 10k will do?... Answer: They will crash and burn trough it with silly investments and ventures! ... But mostly it will go to the little people!!! ... Cuz they have to pay the little people.. and the little businesses providing little things for the little people! So the cycle continues in favor of the little people!Talking about little, what you say makes little to no sense. But my point being with West / East ... was that the East will have more infrastructure set in place when the time comes for the big kahunas to invest in projects and spend their 10k coins... the wealth will gather in those places! And it will go away from the West... comprende? capisci?
if you are asserting that an appreciating asset, such as bitcoins are being accumulated in other parts of the world, then there could be some truth to that. If you say that there could be some redistribution of wealth going on, there could be some truth to that, as well, but none of these kinds of practices and concerns are exactly systematic nor planned, but some persons making investment of their wealth into a potentially appreciating asset, such as bitcoin, could be the beneficiaries of redistribution of wealth. None of this redistribution of wealth is for sure because there are a lot of other dynamics that still need to play out. Look ... first to prove you wrong.... those 10k transactions that you are talking... Who in the name of the bloody F'ing God would advertise something like that??? Maybe billionaires with private armies!Next issue... "I make no sense" ... You need to think on atomic-primal level of human behavior .... in 2-3 years when all the global economy will be in shambles. With all this awakening happening... people will lose more and more trust in fiat. And Gold/Silver are heavy and insecure. For example I'm planning to cross a border and live in the neighbor country cause they have rents 5-7 times less than I can get here.. and its like just 150 kilometers away. And I will probably rent a historic building with tall ceilings, cause I want to feel like I'm living in a presidential building with 5000 square feet space just for me! Now tell me.. how the F'udge I'm gonna cross the border with 1 kilo of gold??... There will be so many F'ing questions and probably confiscation! Now that I gave you that example.. Lets say I want a private chef as well, just because. Also I need someone to clean at least once per week. Lets just say I'm gonna try to do some LLC's and hire people in that cheaper country and start to do a business... So... if you think I'm just going to grow old and not throw money in all directions... you are very delusional!!! And what do you think those with 10k will do?... Private estate with ultra security, feeding those people, cleaning the place, getting a girl, making kids, buy them cars,helicopters & private planes... So.. that 10k you where talking about... where did it all go and disappear???
Lalalelelei... I spend it all Mom...
On Candy!!! .. & exotic hookers! |
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