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Question: Next Bubble Top (resulting in a new ATH):
Will never reach a new ATH - 4 (5.3%)
$20,000-$49,999 - 13 (17.1%)
$50,000-$99,999 - 20 (26.3%)
$100,000-$149,999 - 17 (22.4%)
$150,000-$199,999 - 7 (9.2%)
$200,000-$249,999 - 4 (5.3%)
$250,000-$299,999 - 1 (1.3%)
$300,000-$350,000 - 1 (1.3%)
>$350,000 - 9 (11.8%)
Total Voters: 76

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21500003 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (138 posts by 32 users deleted.)
conspirosphere.tk
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June 16, 2017, 10:23:20 PM

But one thing I don't understand: how can the Powers That Be (central banks, GSachs etc) keep the price low if they have to continually buy? Dump, dump dump... what do they do when the ammo's over? Buy again at a presumably higher price? Every single btc that gets bought by someone else at those lower prices will eventually push the actual rebuying price higher. Or is something escaping me?

Oh oh. Now you dunnit. You just asked the question that always shuts 'em up.

I guess that having money printers they could buy-> short with leverage -> buy back (possibly lower, but not necessarily: they could play at a loss forever).
and generating panic is another leverage when shorting.
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June 16, 2017, 10:25:12 PM

Yep. But they were talking about declaring that one of the last purchased BTC (at a much higher buying price) is the one being sold. That completely ignores FIFO (First In First Out) that I supposse is a standard on most western countries.

All my bitcoins were purchased about one month ago. I can show you records. I bought it from a guy in the corner of some street, I don't know where, and I can't find him anymore, but here it is in the block explorer. That's my very first one. The next one is a few days later. See, here. (pointing to a print out of blockchain.info or any other block explorer and the paper wallet in question.)

I bought bitcoins because I saw it on CNN and CNBC and Fox News last month.

I understand your point, and maybe in your country that would work... But let's see what would happen in Spain (and probably MANY other countries):

- You say all were purchases one month ago, Ok. With WHICH MONEY? Ok, you say cash... why did you have so many cash outside the banking system are you a criminal??? Where does it come from?

- Anyway... You couldn't have make any single purchase of BTC for cash in excess of 3.000€ (legal limit for cash purchases). But then you say... ok, one BTC at a time is under that limit... ok
But then you can't say FROM THE SAME GUY, also you can't say it was 50 purchases in a few months of one BTC each from 50 different guys, because that would be SMURFING/STRUCTURING.

And, again, where did you obtain those 50 * 2000 = 100.000€ in first place? I don't see it in your tax reports....

- Also, you mention you can show records... Ok, let's see those records... Do you have any banking receipts for the deposits to the exchanges? Oh no, it was cash.. ok ok... Well, I am sure you have signed receipts from the individuals you purchased those BTC, don't you? With enough data so that we can also raise an audit on them and check the coherence of your claims.

I could go on and on about how much the tax office has growth its power and methods of control. Maybe not in your country, and maybe you are lucky and they never notice (which doesn't mean it was risk free) but just saying that it's not that easy to avoid big trouble in the future if you don't comply from the beginning.

What if your BTC stash is worth a few millions some day... Do you think your story, without any sound proof of it, will stand?



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June 16, 2017, 10:28:08 PM

Of course you have to tell .gov where the fiat comes from.
That is called AML and exist everywhere except in tax paradises.
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June 16, 2017, 10:47:30 PM

Of course you have to tell .gov where the fiat comes from.
That is called AML and exist everywhere except in tax paradises.


Yep. It is already VERY HARD to make them believe how some little money have growed so much in a few years even if you have records of every transfer to the exchanges, every purchase/trade, etc etc.... even with perfect proofs it will raise suspicions if the amount of money is sizeable (let's see enough to buy a cheap property, which you need to first convert to banking fiat and pay taxes). If you add an incredible story with no real valid proof.... that's trouble.

I am always talking about sizeable amounts. If we are talking about only a few thousands, nobody will give a shit about it. The real risk begins in the tens of thousands, is almost a sure thing in the hundreds of thousands, and is a completely sure thing if we are talking about millions (maybe unless you are so rich now that your official net worth is already in the millions of previously taxed banking fiat/real state/etc).
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June 16, 2017, 10:50:02 PM

Yep. It is already VERY HARD to make them believe how some little money have growed so much in a few years even if you have records of every transfer to the exchanges, every purchase/trade, etc etc....

Why? I can trace the purchase and the price paid, the movement through wallets and the eventual sale price. It's all there to be presented. It's not witchcraft.

If you get taken to court for some reason, what reason would it be? The court would clip the taxman around the ear for wasting its time.
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June 16, 2017, 10:53:02 PM

Yeah this is indeed some great news!
We will get SegWit as wished, without any modifications, and the HF stuff will come later.
However does anybody here if it really will kill ASICBOOST now?
I'm not that deep into the technical stuff and some opinions seems to differ here.
Antpool and Bitmain will probably the last ones to signal. But I'm sure they will do.


From what I have seen, SegWit will make it transparent whenever a miner uses the ASICBOOST exploit. I would imagine this would accelerate a full fix.
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June 16, 2017, 10:55:06 PM

I bought bitcoins because I saw it on CNN and CNBC and Fox News last month.
And you created an account on bitcointalk.org 5 years before that? :-)
One thing you will have to explain is how you where able to pay (cash) for all these bitcoins last month.
I just report my bitcoin holdings so I can spend them later without running into issues. The 1.2%/year in taxes is less than the price swings in a single day.
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June 16, 2017, 11:00:59 PM

Yeah this is indeed some great news!
We will get SegWit as wished, without any modifications, and the HF stuff will come later.
However does anybody here if it really will kill ASICBOOST now?
I'm not that deep into the technical stuff and some opinions seems to differ here.
Antpool and Bitmain will probably the last ones to signal. But I'm sure they will do.


From what I have seen, SegWit will make it transparent whenever a miner uses the ASICBOOST exploit. I would imagine this would accelerate a full fix.

From what I understood, there is overt and covert asicboost. Overt asicboost is relatively harmless (small relative advantage) and won't be harmed by segwit. On the other hand, covert asicboost needs the signatures in the same block and can't be done when the witness data is segregated.
bitserve
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June 16, 2017, 11:01:15 PM

Yep. It is already VERY HARD to make them believe how some little money have growed so much in a few years even if you have records of every transfer to the exchanges, every purchase/trade, etc etc....

Why? I can trace the purchase and the price paid, the movement through wallets and the eventual sale price. It's all there to be presented. It's not witchcraft.

If you get taken to court for some reason, what reason would it be? The court would clip the taxman around the ear for wasting its time.

Well it depends on many things. I will explain with an extreme example:

- Let's see you are unemployed and have not had any official income for the past 5 years.
- YOu don't really care because you have a few thousand BTC you bought in 2010.
- Now you decide to cash out 500BTC or 1 million eur. you send the coins to the exchange and withdraw to your bank.
- You pay the capital gains on it on your declaration.
- Very probably you raise suspicions and get audited. It is even very possible it even hapenned as soon as the bank received that sum and informed the tax office. Then money is put on hold.
- You have perfect proof of everything... Probably they don't understand it fully and you need to present notarised translated documents. Maybe even some expert witness report explaining the moves, etc...
- Trouble, trouble... in this case you will probably be free to go, but not before a lot of headache.

Unexplained wealth is the reason. And it is on you to prove it didn't come from illicit activities and to pay the proper tax on it.
gentlemand
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June 16, 2017, 11:04:42 PM

Unexplained wealth is the reason. And it is on you to prove it didn't come from illicit activities and to pay the proper tax on it.

It's not doubt plenty of wealth but it is fully explainable. You're better off contacting your bank beforehand and having all your info together but people do it every single day without being executed.
bitserve
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June 16, 2017, 11:11:10 PM

Unexplained wealth is the reason. And it is on you to prove it didn't come from illicit activities and to pay the proper tax on it.

It's not doubt plenty of wealth but it is fully explainable. You're better off contacting your bank beforehand and having all your info together but people do it every single day without being executed.

Being explainable doesn't avoid you having to fully explain it. Of course once you are increasing your official net worth (paying taxes et all) you already have a track record that is not suspicious anymore.

Anyways, what dabs was suggesting is trying to make them believe that all his Bitcoins were bought in the last few months without any sound proof of where did he get the cash to buy it, from whom (unidentified individuals), etc...

And THAT, will be a real nightmare that most probably wouldn't end well.
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June 16, 2017, 11:13:58 PM

I don't know the technical of how to fix it,

Okay...

I don't know the technical of how to fix it,
but that's not important, I'm sure there are people who have a fair idea of how to do it. Do it in a way that  maintains the very essence of Bitcoin. Keep it as decentralized as possible. Don't mess anything up! GIVE THE POWER BACK TO THE PEOPLE!
If that means not highening the block size, so be it. "...Well but the network fee is too high then!" well go use some other coin to pay for your coffe if it's too high.. One should use Bitcoin as a cryptocurrencies vault, from where one can send a larger amount to another wallet, which is to be used for daily purchases.
 Don't close the door on the guy who has his miner in the basement. If there is no people, there is no value.

And you betray yourself with your followup. You are belittling people, many of whom have very technical backgrounds who happen to disagree with the way Core is handling things and who do not see this "decentralization" argument as more than a scare tactic. You claim you do not understand well the mechanisms then fall back on relying on authority. If you really don't understand the technicals of why people are pushing for a block size limit increase, I suggest you educate yourself but I suspect the "I'm just a simple rube" act is exactly that.

And for what it's worth, high fees are devastating for the small miner.
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June 16, 2017, 11:23:11 PM

However does anybody here if it really will kill ASICBOOST now?


AFAIK, it's basically Core's version of Segwit with different signalling. So that would mean it would put an end to *covert* asicboost but not overt (I think).

If Jihan was not using it, as claimed, that should not be a big deal. He's signed up for it either way anyway.
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June 16, 2017, 11:25:06 PM

Unexplained wealth is the reason. And it is on you to prove it didn't come from illicit activities and to pay the proper tax on it.

that's why a bitcoin holder lease ... everything.
like rich family with gold deposit (in private storage).
use ... XAPO card for example.
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June 16, 2017, 11:27:23 PM

Yep. But they were talking about declaring that one of the last purchased BTC (at a much higher buying price) is the one being sold. That completely ignores FIFO (First In First Out) that I supposse is a standard on most western countries.

All my bitcoins were purchased about one month ago. I can show you records. I bought it from a guy in the corner of some street, I don't know where, and I can't find him anymore, but here it is in the block explorer. That's my very first one. The next one is a few days later. See, here. (pointing to a print out of blockchain.info or any other block explorer and the paper wallet in question.)

I bought bitcoins because I saw it on CNN and CNBC and Fox News last month.

CGT is often higher on shorter-term investments (not sure that applies here though)
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June 16, 2017, 11:33:29 PM

People discussing how to defraud the taxman on a public forum. *shakes head*. I hope you're all using VPNs.
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June 16, 2017, 11:43:31 PM

People discussing how to defraud the taxman on a public forum. *shakes head*. I hope you're all using VPNs.

It's all for scientific purposes... and you know it! Smiley
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June 17, 2017, 12:03:15 AM

People discussing how to defraud the taxman on a public forum. *shakes head*. I hope you're all using VPNs.

As Mitt Romney said, you can legally not pay your taxes.

Or at least, keep your tax footprint small.
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June 17, 2017, 12:09:34 AM

taxman rise DEBT over my 3nd generation.  Roll Eyes
that's why i have choosed Bitcoin over Bank.
taxman is Bank, now.
bitserve
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June 17, 2017, 12:09:56 AM

People discussing how to defraud the taxman on a public forum. *shakes head*. I hope you're all using VPNs.

As Mitt Romney said, you can legally not pay your taxes.

Or at least, keep your tax footprint small.

Of course you can legally not pay taxes (or pay much less). But not in the ways are being discussed here.

Look at Roger Ver, he even left the USA nationality and became a citizen of Saint Kiss and Nevis (whatever that is).

There are ways, but none of them are simple nor cheap.
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