Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jojo69]

I missed an important historical event. Did anyone pay attention which page this thread and Bitcoin reached parity? That was something dreamed about long ago...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg26439879#msg26439879

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[alexeft]

Who is them? The miners in general or the bcash company?

Most likely Bitmain. Which is also the Bcash company.

Fine, let them do so at their cost then. It's an inherent problem with good things in life, that they are going to get spammed to death if there is no price.
Let there be price then! One of the best antispam filters.

[HairyMaclairy]

how low can we go...

17,200 USD is support level

It will bounce back.  We are just giving the weak hands a good shake.

[realr0ach]

Anyway, thank you for all the links to your posts, I think I will read them. You are an interesting person.

Honestly, bitcoin is an extremely complex Rube Goldberg machine that takes either a lot of brain power or just a lot of time and effort to evaluate, which I feel 99% of people in the bitcoin space have not done.  Most of the people in this thread don't know anything about subjects like entropy and how it relates to decentralization, so they'll never be able to evaluate bitcoin objectively.  This means the most important and relevant thing I've ever said about bitcoin is probably this post where I describe how bitcoin inevitably turns into the equivalent of a closed entropy proof of stake system even while claiming to be open entropy proof of work:

http://steemit.com/steemit/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-14-defining-if-cryptocurrency-has-a-value-or-zero-value-from-a-fundamental-scientific-perspective

[gentlemand]

Fine, let them do so at their cost then. It's an inherent problem with good things in life, that they are going to get spammed to death if there is no price.
Let there be price then! One of the best antispam filters.

Well, it's not really to their cost as they probably control more than 50% of the hash rate so they collect their own fees. Even if they miss them, they've driven fees up so high that they collect more in general anyway. It's a very neat and nauseating loop.

[jojo69]

The president just came on the shortwave.

They are moving the government to Cheyenne Mountain.

I hear helicopters in the distance.

[xhomerx10]

The president just came on the shortwave.

They are moving the government to Cheyenne Mountain.

I hear helicopters in the distance.

 Did r0ach just run for the hills?

[bones261]

.........

The problem with your calculations is that it does not include the 12.5 BTC reward the miners get with each block. That alone rewards the miners about 90.00 USD per tx at the current price. At this point in the game, the tx fees are just extra profit padding.

And?

Who do you think is the most likely suspect of spamming this network to artificially inflate the tx market?
I'll give you a clue.

I suppose you want me to assume that it is miners that are spamming. Why not assume that they are aware of networking effects and that it is to their interest to not spam, but allow as many legitimate transactions as possible? The bcash gang is excluded from this assumption by definition!

First of all, you are aware that Antpool, which is run by Bitmain, does not share the tx portion the reward to the miners. Also, BTC.com, also run by Bitmain, runs a transaction accelerator that make you pay to put through your stuck transaction. Bitmain has everything to gain by filling up the mempool with lower fee transactions to collect higher fees and encourage people to give their transaction accelerator a try.

[alexeft]

Fine, let them do so at their cost then. It's an inherent problem with good things in life, that they are going to get spammed to death if there is no price.
Let there be price then! One of the best antispam filters.

Well, it's not really to their cost as they probably control more than 50% of the hash rate so they collect their own fees. Even if they miss them, they've driven fees up so high that they collect more in general anyway. It's a very neat and nauseating loop.

If they did control more than 50% of the hashing power, they would do a 50% attack, like undoing blocks and whatnot. Most mining machines being sold by bitmain, doesn't mean that they control them as well.

[realr0ach]

If they did control more than 50% of the hashing power, they would do a 50% attack, like undoing blocks and whatnot. Most mining machines being sold by bitmain, doesn't mean that they control them as well.

You must be new to both bitcoins AND altcoins if you believe that's true.  I mean we have altcoins where one miner will own like 80% of the hashrate for months and no 51% attacks occur.  Why?  Because at that point you are a monopoly man and there is no point in destroying the monopoly you benefit from.  Is it "decentralized"?  Fuck no.  But just because it's 100% centralized with no fundamentals doesn't mean it instantly dies.

[alexeft]

.........

The problem with your calculations is that it does not include the 12.5 BTC reward the miners get with each block. That alone rewards the miners about 90.00 USD per tx at the current price. At this point in the game, the tx fees are just extra profit padding.

And?

Who do you think is the most likely suspect of spamming this network to artificially inflate the tx market?
I'll give you a clue.

I suppose you want me to assume that it is miners that are spamming. Why not assume that they are aware of networking effects and that it is to their interest to not spam, but allow as many legitimate transactions as possible? The bcash gang is excluded from this assumption by definition!

First of all, you are aware that Antpool, which is run by Bitmain, does not share the tx portion the reward to the miners. Also, BTC.com, also run by Bitmain, runs a transaction accelerator that make you pay to put through your stuck transaction. Bitmain has everything to gain by filling up the mempool with lower fee transactions to collect higher fees and encourage people to give their transaction accelerator a try.

The two still don't make 50%. And bitmain has lost it's advantage due to the bug that bitcoin had. Let's see how that unfolds.

[alexeft]

If they did control more than 50% of the hashing power, they would do a 50% attack, like undoing blocks and whatnot. Most mining machines being sold by bitmain, doesn't mean that they control them as well.

You must be new to both bitcoins AND altcoins if you believe that's true.  I mean we have altcoins where one miner will own like 80% of the hashrate for months and no 51% attacks occur.  Why?  Because at that point you are a monopoly man and there is no point in destroying the monopoly you benefit from.  Is it "decentralized"?  Fuck no.  But just because it's 100% centralized with no fundamentals doesn't mean it instantly dies.

You find me a way to teleport gold or silver and then come back talking. Meanwhile, welcome to my ignore list.

[gentlemand]

The two still don't make 50%. And bitmain has lost it's advantage due to the bug that bitcoin had. Let's see how that unfolds.

Don't go forgetting ViaBTC and Bitcoin.com too. If they're not Bitmain owned, they are proxies.

[bitcoinvest]

who sold at the bottom?

[realr0ach]

If they did control more than 50% of the hashing power, they would do a 50% attack, like undoing blocks and whatnot. Most mining machines being sold by bitmain, doesn't mean that they control them as well.

You must be new to both bitcoins AND altcoins if you believe that's true.  I mean we have altcoins where one miner will own like 80% of the hashrate for months and no 51% attacks occur.  Why?  Because at that point you are a monopoly man and there is no point in destroying the monopoly you benefit from.  Is it "decentralized"?  Fuck no.  But just because it's 100% centralized with no fundamentals doesn't mean it instantly dies.

You find me a way to teleport gold or silver and then come back talking. Meanwhile, welcome to my ignore list.

Please do use ignore if you're unable to handle 100% factual economic truth.

[HairyMaclairy]

There’s too much money in mining for Bitmain to hold their monopoly position. It will be broken soon enough.  

[bones261]

Fine, let them do so at their cost then. It's an inherent problem with good things in life, that they are going to get spammed to death if there is no price.
Let there be price then! One of the best antispam filters.

Well, it's not really to their cost as they probably control more than 50% of the hash rate so they collect their own fees. Even if they miss them, they've driven fees up so high that they collect more in general anyway. It's a very neat and nauseating loop.

If they did control more than 50% of the hashing power, they would do a 50% attack, like undoing blocks and whatnot. Most mining machines being sold by bitmain, doesn't mean that they control them as well.

Bitmain definitely does have the capacity to gather more than 50% of the hash power, if they so desired. However, for them to invoke a 50% attack would be killing their goose that lays golden eggs. One may argue that they would  invoke the attack to bolster BCH. However, it is quite clear from Jihan Wu's recent tweets is that he wants to keep his hands in both the BTC and BCH till.

[alexeft]

The two still don't make 50%. And bitmain has lost it's advantage due to the bug that bitcoin had. Let's see how that unfolds.

Don't go forgetting ViaBTC and Bitcoin.com too. If they're not Bitmain owned, they are proxies.

Proof?

[gentlemand]

Proof?

https://www.ccn.com/bitmain-funded-mining-pool-viabtc-launches-bitcoin-ethereum-exchange/

Bitmain is the primary investor in VaiBTC. The Bitcoin.com pool is owned by Mr.Ver who is hand in hand with Bitmain's plans. It's not exactly Watergate levels of conspiracy.

[alexeft]

Fine, let them do so at their cost then. It's an inherent problem with good things in life, that they are going to get spammed to death if there is no price.
Let there be price then! One of the best antispam filters.

Well, it's not really to their cost as they probably control more than 50% of the hash rate so they collect their own fees. Even if they miss them, they've driven fees up so high that they collect more in general anyway. It's a very neat and nauseating loop.

If they did control more than 50% of the hashing power, they would do a 50% attack, like undoing blocks and whatnot. Most mining machines being sold by bitmain, doesn't mean that they control them as well.

Bitmain definitely does have the capacity to gather more than 50% of the hash power, if they so desired. However, for them to invoke a 50% attack would be killing their goose that lays golden eggs. One may argue that they would  invoke the attack to bolster BCH. However, it is quite clear from Jihan Wu's recent tweets is that he wants to keep his hands in both the BTC and BCH till.

Obviously he's lost his "advantage" and at lest wants to keep his money!!! What's new?