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Question: Oct. 23 Closing Price:
<$8,000 - 1 (2.6%)
$8,000-$8,500 - 0 (0%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 0 (0%)
$9,000-$9,500 - 0 (0%)
$9,500-$10,000 - 0 (0%)
$10,000-$10,500 - 1 (2.6%)
$10,500-$11,000 - 0 (0%)
$11,000-$11,500 - 2 (5.1%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 4 (10.3%)
$12,000-$12,500 - 11 (28.2%)
$12,500-$13,000 - 8 (20.5%)
$13,000-$13,500 - 5 (12.8%)
$13,500-$14,000 - 3 (7.7%)
>$14,000 - 4 (10.3%)
Total Voters: 39

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 23353827 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (148 posts by 37 users deleted.)
bones261
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June 29, 2019, 02:30:43 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), nutildah (1), fillippone (1)

I have roach on ignore but would be happy to counter his misinformation in this instance. Bitcoin (per coin on average) costs anywhere between $1,300 and $37,400 to mine depending on where you are in the world. As you can see, mining is prohibitively expensive in much of the world (this is based on today's prices):



https://coinrate.com/cryptocurrency-mining-prices-and-profitability-by-country-in-realtime

And yes, not anybody can just start up their own mining operation to get "cheap coins." Most mining farms operate in the red for months or years before turning a profit -- they are invested in the long haul and weather unprofitable periods on the bet that the price of BTC will continue to increase in the future.

Besides, roach should know as well as anybody that the market dictates prices. This is what gives BTC - like any traded good in the world - its premium.
I checked the web page. They need to update their statistics. It appears that they are using figures for the S9, which uses 100 J/TH. The S15 uses 57J/TH and the S17 uses 56 J/TH. So it appears the costs need to be adjusted down by almost half. Still expensive to mine a BTC in most places though. From what I can tell, it also does not factor in additional costs, like cooling costs and depreciation of mining equipment.
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June 29, 2019, 02:36:44 PM

Who wants to move to Venezuela for a year and get their mine on Wink
I’d consider it if I was single & a couple of us went into business together.
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June 29, 2019, 02:43:05 PM
Last edit: July 01, 2019, 10:03:07 PM by rdbase
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), LFC_Bitcoin (1)

Who wants to move to Venezuela for a year and get their mine on Wink
I’d consider it if I was single & a couple of us went into business together.
They mine bitcoin in Iran already within their mosques due to the free electricity they have so why not? Grin
They get over $260,000 worth of bitcoins and it all goes towards their place of worship.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/iran-bitcoin-miners-set-up-shop-in-mosques-amid-govt-crackdown
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1146669/iran-mosques-bitcoin-safe-houses-hiding
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June 29, 2019, 02:44:07 PM

Who wants to move to Venezuela for a year and get their mine on Wink
I’d consider it if I was single & a couple of us went into business together.
Safety first. I heard the situation there is very hostile, not sure how bad it is.
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June 29, 2019, 02:45:23 PM

Who wants to move to Venezuela for a year and get their mine on Wink
I’d consider it if I was single & a couple of us went into business together.
They mine bitcoin in Iran already in their mosques due to the free electricity they have so why not? Grin

Well someone must be paying the bill anyway. So, it's not free at all.
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June 29, 2019, 02:46:43 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1)

Who wants to move to Venezuela for a year and get their mine on Wink
I’d consider it if I was single & a couple of us went into business together.

    The US has an embargo against Venezuela, so I wouldn't be able to go into such a venture. Unless I was planning on not returning to the US until the embargo is lifted. Plus, I'm not certain that I would want to live for a moment under a corrupt socialist government. I know scoring that cheap corn is enticing, but there are limits.  Cheesy
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June 29, 2019, 02:51:43 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)


I have roach on ignore but would be happy to counter his misinformation in this instance. Bitcoin (per coin on average) costs anywhere between $1,300 and $37,400 to mine depending on where you are in the world. As you can see, mining is prohibitively expensive in much of the world (this is based on today's prices):



https://coinrate.com/cryptocurrency-mining-prices-and-profitability-by-country-in-realtime

And yes, not anybody can just start up their own mining operation to get "cheap coins." Most mining farms operate in the red for months or years before turning a profit -- they are invested in the long haul and weather unprofitable periods on the bet that the price of BTC will continue to increase in the future.

Besides, roach should know as well as anybody that the market dictates prices. This is what gives BTC - like any traded good in the world - its premium.

aside from other valid arguments, this picture cannot be right, and even if it is for whole countries, at least in US, there are much-much cheaper regions where you can mine for much less.
With S9, you mine at break even right now at about 15.56c/Kwh.
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=13.5&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1350&CostPerkWh=0.156&MiningPoolFee=1
US average is 12c, so you do the math (my calc (12/15.56)X12000=$9254/btc mining breakeven cost after recouping fixed cost for S9 at the average US electricity cost).
Besides, we are talking about a machine that is a three year old tech. Newer machines have at least twice as better profitability, but they are still rare.
That said, miners also need to recoup their fixed cost (machines), so as far as P/L, the numbers are probably higher.
For example, current S9 (on ebay) will recoup it's cost (at 12c) in about 10 mo, but more realistically, later, due to difficulty increase.
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June 29, 2019, 03:08:24 PM

If it’s costing so little in places like the Ukraine then why aren’t Westerners flocking there & renting an apartment for 12 months to mine?

How much money could you realistically make?

I was in Kiev last summer & the city centre apartments were ok & really cheap.
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June 29, 2019, 03:16:02 PM

It kind of pissed me off. I was taking my sweet ass time accumulating in the $3K-$4K range. I assumed we'd probably still be there now.

I only ended up re-buying half of what I had originally planned - why couldn't we have just panic bought like bitches instead of being so methodical? Tongue

Still, can't complain.
I planned to buy in big at 2700-2800.  I knew 3000-4000 was cheap long-term, yet I got greedy again, still beating myself up about that.

very understandable  Undecided
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June 29, 2019, 03:17:50 PM

If it’s costing so little in places like the Ukraine then why aren’t Westerners flocking there & renting an apartment for 12 months to mine?

How much money could you realistically make?

I was in Kiev last summer & the city centre apartments were ok & really cheap.

...probably because they can find similar prices in US.
In industrial setting, 5c-6c/kwh is relatively common.
Also, people are being lazy and simply mine at so called hosting sites.
It costs more, but no noise, etc. The mining machines are typically VERY noisy.
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June 29, 2019, 03:26:45 PM
Merited by fillippone (1)



DATALIGHT RESEARCHES

Lightning Network Study. Will this technology become the new standard for Bitcoin transactions?


https://datalight.me/blog/researches/lightning-network-study-will-this-technology-become-the-new-standart-for-bitcoin-transactions/

Among other things that I have read:

- Bitcoin block size 1Mb.
- The Bitcoin network to transfer big amounts.
- LN for micropayments.

It's fine for me. (but we have to decentralize LN.) Wink

El duderino_
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June 29, 2019, 03:27:20 PM

Btw Micg is emotional.... gotta pick up my queen in a few hours from now !!!!!

the 2 primary emotions of a man are hunger and horniness.  Grin

Haha waiting at the AirPort as we write Cheesy

2 emotions taking care of today Cheesy

This weekend you will have a lot of work and you'll sleep a little.
You know, eat, drink,.... Wink

She just woke up... didn't slept at the plain Roll Eyes

The eat stuff will be in 1H and 30 min

then

A small party at my village

then

We go dark, of the radar.....
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June 29, 2019, 03:30:52 PM

^
It is a good plan. Cool
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June 29, 2019, 03:36:34 PM

Who wants to move to Venezuela for a year and get their mine on Wink
I’d consider it if I was single & a couple of us went into business together.

Mate, I’ve got a friend with a Venezuelan missus.

That place is Fucked.

He’s a six foot six guy. Can’t even walk around in the pm without a local.
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June 29, 2019, 03:53:22 PM

Quick reminder, Buy The Sideways !
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June 29, 2019, 04:18:51 PM
Merited by mindrust (1)

"You throw another document in my courtroom you will be in handcuffs so fast your head will spin" -- Judge Reinhart (talking to Craig Wright)
https://twitter.com/CarolinaBolado/status/1144664316496535553

Is this real?
LOL
Seems like the entire court is upset with Craig's stupidity.

Would be nice if they actually do something about it, and by the way, I have seen some posts that seem to give him some benefit of the doubt, in terms of him being an idiot, like you suggest, and I would think that courts are going to be inclined to give some benefit of the doubt, too, but after a while, even if the court is a kind of dumbass that is willing to give a lot of benefit of the doubt, the judge should be able to recognize, one would hope, that Craig is not merely stupid, he is intentional in a way that is likely to be punishable - and even hopefully the court is smart enough to see that his intentionality rises to the level of criminal that should not be allowed to be flaunted in an actual court of law - even if the proceedings are civil rather than criminal.
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June 29, 2019, 04:20:25 PM

Shouldn't the poll be updated? June 28 was yesterday. 
JayJuanGee
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June 29, 2019, 04:27:56 PM

I have roach on ignore but would be happy to counter his misinformation in this instance. Bitcoin (per coin on average) costs anywhere between $1,300 and $37,400 to mine depending on where you are in the world. As you can see, mining is prohibitively expensive in much of the world (this is based on today's prices):



https://coinrate.com/cryptocurrency-mining-prices-and-profitability-by-country-in-realtime

And yes, not anybody can just start up their own mining operation to get "cheap coins." Most mining farms operate in the red for months or years before turning a profit -- they are invested in the long haul and weather unprofitable periods on the bet that the price of BTC will continue to increase in the future.

Besides, roach should know as well as anybody that the market dictates prices. This is what gives BTC - like any traded good in the world - its premium.
I checked the web page. They need to update their statistics. It appears that they are using figures for the S9, which uses 100 J/TH. The S15 uses 57J/TH and the S17 uses 56 J/TH. So it appears the costs need to be adjusted down by almost half. Still expensive to mine a BTC in most places though. From what I can tell, it also does not factor in additional costs, like cooling costs and depreciation of mining equipment.

Good observations, Bones, especially regarding the overall processing efficiencies of some of the newer mining equipment.

Regarding your points about cooling and depreciation of equipment, there is a geographical (and within country borders component to the efficiency depiction of the map), so I can see how cooling of equipment might by somewhat geographical, but even some countries are going to have variation in the climate range within their borders.  The depreciation of mining equipment might also have some geographical differences based on available markets, but I have a harder time considering the depreciation of machines to have much of a geographical / national border component that would be easy to capture in such a map.
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June 29, 2019, 04:36:03 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)


Good observations, Bones, especially regarding the overall processing efficiencies of some of the newer mining equipment.

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June 29, 2019, 04:37:15 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Dear r0ach, thanks for your post. My guesstimate is you made it to 90% of the ignore lists here. I'm in the other 10% because I love your impersonation. As I already said, you're probably a middle class, well educated Jew, politically engaged in an undercover operation to ridicule and undermine the alt-right.

You braindead, idiot scammers in this thread have NEVER once explained how the price of Bitcoin can go to $500k or even $50k while cost of production is $3-6k.
We did. I know I did recently.

I think the issue with realr0ach is mixing up marginal cost (cost for mining your next bitcoin) - and initial, fixed and recurrent costs (buying the equipment before Bitmain makes sure it's obsolete by using it "for testing", maintaining it). Those initial costs are too much of a risk. Risk a dozen grand so I can mine 0.4 coins at 3k per coin over a few months? I wouldn't do it, personally, if I didn't know damn well what it entails. Not even OG miners here do. My numbers might be off - I know jackshit about mining - but work out the arithmetic and see what you come up with.

Of course, the explanation wasn't for you - you won't listen, as all the regulars know.

I did it just so the occasional newcomer doesn't get caught in your net of lies.
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