Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Coinseeker]

After reading the seizure warrent, I'd say: not a huge deal. They target US based money supply. Even the seized banking account at Wells Fargo was only filled with Dwolla cash, which was sent to Japan. It seems Dwolla was the only critical part. As (hopefully) the other funding options (i.e. wire transfer) aren't linked to US accounts, it should be fine.

Lesson learned today: if you want to do business in the US, you have to do proper US paperwork. And tbh this isn't something unexpected.

[1714042011]

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[prof7bit]

[SAQ]

I am slightly amazed. The news last night was fairly scary and the users online on reddit kept going up so panic was on the air, but the price has not even blinked. That seems to be because the best thing to do yesterday was to buy not sell because since they seized fiat, you want to convert the fiat to bitcoin.

However, in terms of pricing, the news calls for a correction.

Does that therefore mean that the selling has been delayed due to practical considerations and therefore a correction is due?

[lunarboy]

Never a dull day in bitcoin land.... shrugs shoulders NEXT HURDLE PLEASE.

[Richy_T]

Choo choo, motherfucker!

[UltimateReaper]

I am slightly amazed. The news last night was fairly scary and the users online on reddit kept going up so panic was on the air, but the price has not even blinked. That seems to be because the best thing to do yesterday was to buy not sell because since they seized fiat, you want to convert the fiat to bitcoin.

However, in terms of pricing, the news calls for a correction.

Does that therefore mean that the selling has been delayed due to practical considerations and therefore a correction is due?

I actually would think so, ATM I'm waiting to sell again, with each new high lower than the last and all, but this is really tricky, nothing in BTC surprises me anymore and movement aught to be considered carefully.

[Frozenlock]

Nice walls!

However, please don't make a chartbuddy2 

[gizmoh]

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

[Pale Phoenix]

MtGox US LLC may have dropped the ball with their Dwolla account linked to their US company acting as a US to BTC gateway and not being registered with FinCEN.

Yes, it's looking like that is the extent of it, which is a relief. Failure to register their US subsidiary as a Money Service Business is completely negligent, but at least this doesn't seem to involve an actual money laundering charge.

The subsidiary, Mutum Sigillum LLC, doesn't appear to be registered on the FinCen site: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

[lebing]

Yeah, this is just another case of incompetence (surprise, surprise) from Mtgox. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ee0bc/feds_reveal_the_search_warrant_used_to_seize_mt/

If you read the warrant, you can see that actually they are saying quite clearly that they treat bitcoins as currency and that as long as when you are operating in the US, you follow the rules, you are fine.



So, bears, it appears your option left is to buy back - probably at a loss.

[BitPirate]

MtGox US LLC may have dropped the ball with their Dwolla account linked to their US company acting as a US to BTC gateway and not being registered with FinCEN.

Yes, it's looking like that is the extent of it, which is a relief. Failure to register their US subsidiary as a Money Service Business is completely negligent, but at least this doesn't seem to involve an actual money laundering charge.

The subsidiary, Mutum Sigillum LLC, doesn't appear to be registered on the FinCen site: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

Mutum Sigilum looks like it was set up for a completely different business, and was just conveniently co-opted when the online exchange business took off. Gox grew fairly organically from nothing, after all.

[Pale Phoenix]

We do have a solution, it's called Ripple.  Ripple will legitimize the BTC but not before we see double digits again.

BTC needs Ripple to achieve legitimacy? Did you read that on a fortune cookie?

[MAbtc]

After reading the seizure warrent, I'd say: not a huge deal. They target US based money supply. Even the seized banking account at Wells Fargo was only filled with Dwolla cash, which was sent to Japan. It seems Dwolla was the only critical part. As (hopefully) the other funding options (i.e. wire transfer) aren't linked to US accounts, it should be fine.

Lesson learned today: if you want to do business in the US, you have to do proper US paperwork. And tbh this isn't something unexpected.

Any accounts that wire money to Americans are at risk. Generally, it goes offshore bank --> intermediary (US) bank --> customer bank. That's why we get MT Gox wires from Chase NY, etc. Lots of online gambling money gets nabbed by the feds this way. In reality, they can seize offshore accounts where they have existing bank treaties, when there is "cause".

IMO, don't assume this is the end of this. Some thoughts on the subject: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200228.msg2114965#msg2114965

Trying to remain positive here, though.

[TheKoziTwo]

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

Isn't Mark attending bitcoin2013 ? It's located in the US, so that would be a good time to arrest him wouldn't it? Not that Japan wouldn't extradite him. But this sounds like a good opportunity to bring him to "justice" quickly.

I really really hope Mark never visits the US. But who knows.

[BitPirate]

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

Isn't Mark attending bitcoin2013 ? It's located in the US, so that would be a good time to arrest him wouldn't it? Not that Japan wouldn't extradite him. But this sounds like a good opportunity to bring him to "justice" quickly.

Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.

[Pale Phoenix]

Mutum Sigilum looks like it was set up for a completely different business, and was just conveniently co-opted when the online exchange business took off. Gox grew fairly organically from nothing, after all.

Yes, I see that too. Mutum Sigilium was created in Delaware on 05/09/2008. Still, after those FinCen regulations came out last month, there's really no excuse for such an oversight on Gox's part.

[Dalib]

MtGox 502 Bad Gateway ?

[MAbtc]

So, bears, it appears your option left is to buy back - probably at a loss.

Dunno, we'll see.



Wouldn't be buying back at a loss, though.

[TheKoziTwo]

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

Isn't Mark attending bitcoin2013 ? It's located in the US, so that would be a good time to arrest him wouldn't it? Not that Japan wouldn't extradite him. But this sounds like a good opportunity to bring him to "justice" quickly.

Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.

US doesn't have a working justice system, very few who is in prison there deserves it.

[Ultraviolet]

Gox www lagging hard/API unresponsive/broken for anyone else?