Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

One of the many amazing aspects of bitcoin FUNDAMENTALZZZ!!11

 

The fallacy is that the issue with providing liquidity to the BTC economy is on a decline.

The reality is that more and more services are becoming available to facilitate easy entry into this market.

One of the big successes of BTC-e when LTC was starting to get a foot hold was the introduction of deposits from credit card.

As time goes on this "issue" that may or may not be a real issue today will not be used as an argument against BTC and its future.

Easier entries doesn't necessarily mean that a significant amount of people (significant compared to the selling pressure and overall supply) will want to buy it tho 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I still think drugs is the best use case we have. Why don't people buy heroin anymore or what

[Sitarow]

One of the many bitcoin paradoxes:


If the amount of money dumped spent with merchants through Bitpay is insignificant, that means that very few people are using bitcoin to buy stuff that is not drugz or child pr0nz with bitcoin on the deep web -> there is no real "adoption".
If that amount is significant, add that the the daily sell pressure on the price, as if demand is not low enough  

  checkmate

One of the many amazing aspects of bitcoin FUNDAMENTALZZZ!!11

 

The fallacy is that the issue with providing liquidity to the BTC economy is on a decline.

The reality is that more and more services are becoming available to facilitate easy entry into this market.

One of the big successes of BTC-e when LTC was starting to get a foot hold was the introduction of deposits from credit card.

As time goes on this "issue" that may or may not be a real issue today will not be used as an argument against BTC and its future.

Easier entries doesn't necessarily mean that a significant amount of people (significant compared to the selling pressure and overall supply) will want to buy it tho 

That may be the case. However thus far when an option to simplify moving fiat into btc economy was available the results were for all to see.

[testerman]

Your first argument is a feeble attempt to push fallacy as fact.
Bitpay one of a few service providers says otherwise.

http://blog.bitpay.com/2015/02/04/bitcoin-and-bitpay-in-2014.html

In that link there is no reference to actual transaction volume, it doesn't say anything about how much money is spent (aka dumped) on merchants accepting bitcoin with Bitpay, if this number has increased or if it's anywhere significant. also, it doesn't tell you who is dumping spending their bitcoin on merchants accepting them through Bitpay. Whales who already own plenty of BTC? a limited number of libertarians? or people buying bitcoin to use as a currency for its *amazing advantages* to fiat money?
I highly doubt it any significant amount of money comes from the latter group, and bitpay doesn't tell me anything about that.

Because that was my point, people buying bitcoin to use it for its supposed utility as a currency.

@NotHatinJustTrollin.

Knowledge, Understanding & Wisdom is a lost art on you it seems.

Why the hell are you posting a pic of BTC-E? Does that answer any of these questions (especially the last one)?
Nope.

it doesn't say anything about how much money is spent (aka dumped) on merchants accepting bitcoin with Bitpay, if this number has increased or if it's anywhere significant. also, it doesn't tell you who is dumping spending their bitcoin on merchants accepting them through Bitpay. Whales who already own plenty of BTC? a limited number of libertarians? or people buying bitcoin to use as a currency for its *amazing advantages* to fiat money?
I highly doubt it any significant amount of money comes from the latter group, and bitpay doesn't tell me anything about that.

Unfortunately your lack of wisdom is evidently shown publicly. Your incompetence in exercising understanding is imponderable.
http://www.btcfeed.net/news/bitpay-processed-over-100-million-in-bitcoin-transactions/

What about the last question? In a 3-10 billion marketcap currency there are some whales that can dump spend coins, what a surprise.
Who is actually using those bitcoin as a currency?
"people buying bitcoin to use as a currency for its *amazing advantages* to fiat money?"?

One is one to many for free advise

However know that the Value of BTC is outside your present perspective.

I take it as "I can't answer that shit".

Know that your inability or lack of desire to seek out your own understanding has been made clear in our brief exchange of perspectives.


https://twitter.com/GaltsGirl/status/564137655827316737/photo/1

All pleasantries aside...

7:22PM EST

hi what is the name of the wallet application thanks.

[JorgeStolfi]

handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity)

I don't know whether BitPay is profiting.  

IIRC, when they started, they offered merchants a free entry-level plan, that allowed only some small volume.  Merchants who exceeded that volume would have to upgrade to a plan with a monthly fee.  But at some time they dropped all fees.

Even if they are processing 200 million USD/year of e-payments, and taking a percentage of that somehow, their revenue must be only 3-4 million USD/year.  Their payroll alone must be more than that.  

Didn't they lay off some staff recently? Anyone remembers how much they paid for the Bitcoin Bowl?

So perhaps they are still operating at a loss, burning their venture capital, hoping for a substantial traffic increase.  Which, again, would explain why they are not releasing any meaningful numbers.

[inca]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

[Sitarow]

https://twitter.com/GaltsGirl/status/564137655827316737/photo/1

hi what is the name of the wallet application thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMZ5auCMvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMZ5auCMvw#t=1718

[Spaceman_Spiff]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things. That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

If I said "can't spend BTC anywhere," you would be justified in asking me to defend such a silly statement.  But since I didn't, and you tried to stuff those words into my mouth, I won't.

The problem isn't that you can't spend BTC. You can spend anything, including rusty VW Beatles and recyclable plastic bottles.  Though recyclable plastic bottles are a far better store of value than BTC, neither one of us would suggest that they're money.  Not even if a bum agrees to take them to a redemption center and exchange them for money in exchange for a small fee or totally ripping you off.

I have paid for food with bitcoin multiple times, haven't used a rusty VW Beatle yet.  
At least now you are acknowledging that BTC can be used to pay for normal stuff, despite your derision by comparing it to plastic bottles as a would-be-money.
I think I'll be leaving the discussion at that though, don't want to spam the entire thread.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

How many pages back was THAT?

[inca]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

How many pages back was THAT?

Last couple.

[criptix]

so everyone accepting paypal is actually not accepting $, € or any other fiat currency?

Of course.  The currency that they accept is one thing, the means through which they receive the currency is another thing.  Last time I checked, Dell USA accepted only dollars, but you could send the dollars in one of several ways: PayPal, credit card, bank wire, old-fashioned checks, -- or BitPay.  Likewise, Dell would pay refunds only in dollars, even if you paid with BitPay.

what happens when paypal will integrate btc this year? still nobody accepting bitcoin?
they do accept bitcoin as payment, the just dont hold it.

Either PayPal will do the conversion to dollars and send dollars to the merchant, like BitPay does; or most merchants that accept payment via BitPay will not accept bitcoins through Paypal.

exactly.

for example i want to buy something outside my country:

1. i load up paypal with local currency
2. buy something online in a different currency
3. paypal processes the payment

there is actually no difference at all between what paypal does and bitpay does.

what follows is that merchants are accepting bitcoin and not only $

the thing is, most people get their salary paid in fiat. the time this changes will be the turning point

[Spaceman_Spiff]

so everyone accepting paypal is actually not accepting $, € or any other fiat currency?

Of course.  The currency that they accept is one thing, the means through which they receive the currency is another thing.  Last time I checked, Dell USA accepted only dollars, but you could send the dollars in one of several ways: PayPal, credit card, bank wire, old-fashioned checks, -- or BitPay.  Likewise, Dell would pay refunds only in dollars, even if you paid with BitPay.

what happens when paypal will integrate btc this year? still nobody accepting bitcoin?
they do accept bitcoin as payment, the just dont hold it.

Either PayPal will do the conversion to dollars and send dollars to the merchant, like BitPay does; or most merchants that accept payment via BitPay will not accept bitcoins through Paypal.

exactly.

for example i want to buy something outside my country:

1. i load up paypal with local currency
2. buy something online in a different currency
3. paypal processes the payment

there is actually no difference at all between what paypal does and bitpay does.

what follows is that merchants are accepting bitcoin and not only $

I think he would argue that the merchant doesn't accept your local currency.  It's a matter of terminology really.

[Sitarow]

[NotLambchop]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Don't be so nervous, inca.  I'll give you a heads-up before you get raided.  Just don't jerk it in public libraries like this d00d.

[criptix]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Nobody is saying that you (or bitcoiners in general) are pedophiles, I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

quite funny when 99% of all crimes in the younger history was funded with fiat

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

How many pages back was THAT?

Last couple.

Ok I see. Right before my heroin comment. Well you can buy anything with bitcoins now. I know a guy bought an old oil tanker with bitcoins and set it free in the Indian Ocean. No big woop. This is hardly worth trolololing about

[JorgeStolfi]

You do realize this applies to all currencies? YEN, CNY, CAD

Dell USA, AFAIK, accepts only dollars.  Dell Brazil accepts only reals.  If you want to pay them with some other currency, you must find a way to convert them to USD or BRL, respectively, and send those to the companies.

I have used my Brazilian credit card, whose bills I pay with BRL, to pay for hotels and other stuff in the US, Europe, Japan, etc; but it was always the credict card company that exchanged my BRL for USD, EUR, JPY and deposited these to the merchants' bank accounts.  Those merchants definitely did not "accept BRL", anymore than Dell "accepts bitcoin".

[fonzie]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

[NotLambchop]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things. That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

If I said "can't spend BTC anywhere," you would be justified in asking me to defend such a silly statement.  But since I didn't, and you tried to stuff those words into my mouth, I won't.

The problem isn't that you can't spend BTC. You can spend anything, including rusty VW Beatles and recyclable plastic bottles.  Though recyclable plastic bottles are a far better store of value than BTC, neither one of us would suggest that they're money.  Not even if a bum agrees to take them to a redemption center and exchange them for money in exchange for a small fee or totally ripping you off.

I have paid for food with bitcoin multiple times, haven't used a rusty VW Beatle yet.  
At least now you are acknowledging that BTC can be used to pay for normal stuff, despite your derision by comparing it to plastic bottles as a would-be-money...

Of course it can.  You always could.  Just like you always could use the plastic bottles you've collected from the trash.  Caveat: with plastic bottles, you can be relatively sure how many you'll need--the refund deposit is always a nickel or dime or whatever it is.
With BTC you simply don't have that luxury of knowing--you'll be told how much you'll need at the moment of sale.  And be quick about it--the given price expires in 10 mins, if I remember right

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Nobody is saying that you (or bitcoiners in general) are pedophiles, I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

quite funny when 99% of all crimes in the younger history was funded with fiat

That's another story, I was just saying to inca why I use the reference to child porn, because the phenomenon, although small for now, is out there, that's it.



If you really wanna go there tho, the real numbers you should look at are:
-amount of fiat money used for child porn /  all fiat around the world combined

VS

-amount of bitcoin money used for child porn / bitcoin marketcap


Of course the majority of child porn is funded with fiat, bitcoin is more unknown and its marketcap is a lot smaller. Question would be, which of the two is easier and more convenient to use for child pornographers?