Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^So much evil in the heart of one man. How?

Fat people have enlarged hearts.

Interesting.
How do they have so much darkness in their souls tho?

Well, the idea that the fat person is fat because he/she is a fat lazy bastard is foreign to the fat person. So to make sense of the fact that he/she is in fact fat he/she starts blaming the world.

* I am not referring to the fat person as he/she of PC reasons. It's just very hard to tell sometimes.

I appreciate the fact you totally discount the possibility of genetic causes. Me too! I think it's important to instantly shift blame onto the individual. Shame is a godly virtue and a powerful motivator.

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[JayJuanGee]

Waiting for the addition of the block increase to the official Core roadmap, and once confirmed my Classic node will switch back to Core.

Good luck with that wait.


The way things are looking, currently, maybe 1 year from now, at the very soonest?

i'd imagine they would add it to the road map within a week?

bitcoiners are so distrustful, i wonder why that is ?  

Maybe we are talking about two different things?

From my reading, if they are saying that they are implementing seg wit first, and then they will work on planning to increase the blockchain with some tests of such plans beginning to take place 3 months after seg wit (summer of 2016), therefore, no real need to commit to any actual increase for 6 more months (after testing it out blah, blah, blah).  

All of this sounds good to me, and really shouldn't be that big of a deal, no?

Don't we need to test things out before actually implementing?   And seg wit is going to provide some interesting and potentially unanticipated developments that need to be considered in light of any additional future changes, no?

Even though the current consensus roadmap is not considerably concrete, it sounds pretty decent, reasonable and really good for bitcoin on both a technical and political level, under the current circumstances, no?

sure but all this should be on the Roadmap https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1349965.0


just to clarify.
implementation = the code
implementing = writing the code

Oh thanks a lot.  Now you have given me another thread to read.  I'm not sure if I can handle it.   


It seems that I was using the terms implementing and implementation differently from you, and for me both terms are the same - and it would depend upon context to choose which is used:  one is a verb and the other is a noun.

My understanding of seg wit is that the code has largely been written.. it is currently being tested and will be implemented released  after the testing (anticipated in April).... I mean implemented means it is available to be able to run in reality rather than merely as a test.. blah blah blah.

as a programer the miss use of implement stands out to me. let's overlook the irony of me giving grammar advice  

Ok.  fair enough... and at least now we better understand what each of us means.   

[Fatman3001]

^So much evil in the heart of one man. How?

Fat people have enlarged hearts.

Interesting.
How do they have so much darkness in their souls tho?

Well, the idea that the fat person is fat because he/she is a fat lazy bastard is foreign to the fat person. So to make sense of the fact that he/she is in fact fat he/she starts blaming the world.

* I am not referring to the fat person as he/she of PC reasons. It's just very hard to tell sometimes.

I appreciate the fact you totally discount the possibility of genetic causes. Me too! I think it's important to instantly shift blame onto the individual. Shame is a godly virtue and a powerful motivator.

We are lutherans where I come from. We would feel lost without it.

[blunderer]

...
Few people decide the future of 'Bitcoin'.... really decentralized , right ?

Unregulated currency money, created by & for people united by their unwavering faith in greed being a virtue?

What could possibly go wrong???

Not much, except that people might get distracted from this awesome vision and fall victim to coercive schemes, slavery and fraud (scams, ponzis).

That's all in there. Coercive schemes, slavery and fraud? That's all a part of free market, kept in sanctified balance by Invisible Hand

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^So much evil in the heart of one man. How?

Fat people have enlarged hearts.

Interesting.
How do they have so much darkness in their souls tho?

Well, the idea that the fat person is fat because he/she is a fat lazy bastard is foreign to the fat person. So to make sense of the fact that he/she is in fact fat he/she starts blaming the world.

* I am not referring to the fat person as he/she of PC reasons. It's just very hard to tell sometimes.

I appreciate the fact you totally discount the possibility of genetic causes. Me too! I think it's important to instantly shift blame onto the individual. Shame is a godly virtue and a powerful motivator.

We are lutherans where I come from. We would feel lost without it.

I think I know what you mean. My grandfather was a Freemason. So that's why I never trusted him.

[billyjoeallen]

Bitcoin: distributed decentralized money secured by cowardly miners concentrated in China.  There is no plan or code to switch security measures if they get compromised.

Awesome. This is where I keep my life savings.  I'm a fucking genius.

[shmadz]

You gotta trust somebody

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China.  Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government?  

I'm certain they would capitulate to their government. If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork.

Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

Maybe you can help me understand. So we fork, but we would have to fork away from SHA256 or they could just point to the new fork and doublespend again, right?

Forking seems to be a last resort thing, and there is no code or plan in place to make that kind of switch, to say nothing of no hashpower to secure the new fork, so it could take weeks or months and in the meantime, no Bitcoin.  During that time, could not the Chinese easily discover our new hashing algorithm and swamp the hashpools with more doublespending?

So please, explain this censorship resistance. How is this not a vulnerability?

Censorship resistance comes from the fact that change cannot be forced upon the bitcoin network. Anyone who refuses to accept the new blocks will simply do so and continue on their merry way. You can only double-spend bitcoin that you control. The people that are actually using bitcoin will simply continue to use bitcoin. Any strange blocks or attempt to re-write the blockchain will simply be ignored.

The fork is not last resort, the fork will happen as soon as the first block is formed that does not conform with the consensus rules.  

[molecular]

...
Few people decide the future of 'Bitcoin'.... really decentralized , right ?

Unregulated currency money, created by & for people united by their unwavering faith in greed being a virtue?

What could possibly go wrong???

Not much, except that people might get distracted from this awesome vision and fall victim to coercive schemes, slavery and fraud (scams, ponzis).

That's all in there. Coercive schemes, slavery and fraud? That's all a part of free market, kept in sanctified balance by Invisible Hand

Right. One of the first "balancing acts" would probably be the bankruptcy of a couple of nationstates (certain coercive schemes based on slavery and fraud).

Good riddance.
 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

You gotta trust somebody

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China.  Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government? 

I'm certain they would capitulate to their government. If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork.

Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

Maybe you can help me understand. So we fork, but we would have to fork away from SHA256 or they could just point to the new fork and doublespend again, right?

Forking seems to be a last resort thing, and there is no code or plan in place to make that kind of switch, to say nothing of no hashpower to secure the new fork, so it could take weeks or months and in the meantime, no Bitcoin.  During that time, could not the Chinese easily discover our new hashing algorithm and swamp the hashpools with more doublespending?

So please, explain this censorship resistance. How is this not a vulnerability?

Censorship resistance comes from the fact that change cannot be forced upon the bitcoin network. Anyone who refuses to accept the new blocks will simply do so and continue on their merry way. You can only double-spend bitcoin that you control. The people that are actually using bitcoin will simply continue to use bitcoin. Any strange blocks or attempt to re-write the blockchain will simply be ignored.

The fork is not last resort, the fork will happen as soon as the first block is formed that does not confirm with the consensus rules. 

Censorship resistance has to do with stateless currency, not the ossification of the protocol. Innit?

[shmadz]

Bitcoin: distributed decentralized money secured by cowardly miners concentrated in China.  There is no plan or code to switch security measures if they get compromised.

Awesome. This is where I keep my life savings.  I'm a fucking genius.

I suggest you sell all bitcoin you have, immediately.

I'm not even kidding, go buy Monero or Ethereum or something. I think this bitcoin thing is not healthy for you.

[molecular]

Bitcoin: distributed decentralized money secured by cowardly miners concentrated in China.  There is no plan or code to switch security measures if they get compromised.

Awesome. This is where I keep my life savings.  I'm a fucking genius.

I've always assumed a majority of economically driven, rational miners.

Maybe that assumption is flawed.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Bitcoin: distributed decentralized money secured by cowardly miners concentrated in China.  There is no plan or code to switch security measures if they get compromised.

Awesome. This is where I keep my life savings.  I'm a fucking genius.

ignored ... i don't know who has taken over the BJA account but it is clear now your aim is to FUD and stir shit at every turn, big-block war pumping, now something new to pump FUD ... you are an enemy of bitcoin.

[blunderer]

...
Few people decide the future of 'Bitcoin'.... really decentralized , right ?

Unregulated currency money, created by & for people united by their unwavering faith in greed being a virtue?

What could possibly go wrong???

Not much, except that people might get distracted from this awesome vision and fall victim to coercive schemes, slavery and fraud (scams, ponzis).

That's all in there. Coercive schemes, slavery and fraud? That's all a part of free market, kept in sanctified balance by Invisible Hand

Right. One of the first "balancing acts" would probably be the bankruptcy of a couple of nationstates (certain coercive schemes based on slavery and fraud).

Good riddance.
 

Oh, and there I was, thinking we was talkin' 'bout BTC
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye, hmm?

[billyjoeallen]

You gotta trust somebody

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China.  Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government?  

I'm certain they would capitulate to their government. If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork.

Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

Maybe you can help me understand. So we fork, but we would have to fork away from SHA256 or they could just point to the new fork and doublespend again, right?

Forking seems to be a last resort thing, and there is no code or plan in place to make that kind of switch, to say nothing of no hashpower to secure the new fork, so it could take weeks or months and in the meantime, no Bitcoin.  During that time, could not the Chinese easily discover our new hashing algorithm and swamp the hashpools with more doublespending?

So please, explain this censorship resistance. How is this not a vulnerability?

Censorship resistance comes from the fact that change cannot be forced upon the bitcoin network. Anyone who refuses to accept the new blocks will simply do so and continue on their merry way. You can only double-spend bitcoin that you control. The people that are actually using bitcoin will simply continue to use bitcoin. Any strange blocks or attempt to re-write the blockchain will simply be ignored.

The fork is not last resort, the fork will happen as soon as the first block is formed that does not conform with the consensus rules.  

The network is secured by HASHPOWER! is this not obvious?  Does someone have a warehouse full of SHA512 ASICs laying around to secure the new fork if our hashpower gets compromised?

Even if it is, we can write the code for this new fork in 10 minutes? Convince everyone to use it (because convincing people of the need to upgrade is so damn easy).  I feel like the only sane guy in a loony bin!

or Inigo Montoya.

What is this term "censorship resistance?" I do not think it means what you think it means.

[shmadz]

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye, hmm?

Heh, Blinderer,   LOL

[oda.krell]

Look at that. I'm away for an hour, and at least 5 pages filled up with senseless posturing of smalldickblockians.

By the way, just saying: go and read what 'consensus' actually means. Hint: it's not "100% agreement, or 95%", despite what that grand political theory you cooked up in your mom's basement might tell you.

[blunderer]

Bitcoin: distributed decentralized money secured by cowardly miners concentrated in China.  There is no plan or code to switch security measures if they get compromised.

Awesome. This is where I keep my life savings.  I'm a fucking genius.

I've always assumed a majority of economically driven, rational miners.

Maybe that assumption is flawed.

Your loose definition of "economically driven," therin lies the rub.
First, it's not BTC the miners may be looking for (the FOOLS!) but USD. They don't necessarily keep the BTC they earn as BTC, but sell it immediately for filthy fiat. Now, if a gubermint bro pays them more to f8k bitcoin, they'll do that sooner than you can say "rational self interest." (because, unlike hodlers, not invested in BTC)

And, of course, China being Communist China, nationalizing them mines don't seem like much of a stretch, do it?
And once we start defining "economically driven" in terms of handing over the gear or getting driven to jail, well ...what we got there's one of them paradigm shifts :-

[shmadz]

You gotta trust somebody

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China.  Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government?  

I'm certain they would capitulate to their government. If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork.

Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

Maybe you can help me understand. So we fork, but we would have to fork away from SHA256 or they could just point to the new fork and doublespend again, right?

Forking seems to be a last resort thing, and there is no code or plan in place to make that kind of switch, to say nothing of no hashpower to secure the new fork, so it could take weeks or months and in the meantime, no Bitcoin.  During that time, could not the Chinese easily discover our new hashing algorithm and swamp the hashpools with more doublespending?

So please, explain this censorship resistance. How is this not a vulnerability?

Censorship resistance comes from the fact that change cannot be forced upon the bitcoin network. Anyone who refuses to accept the new blocks will simply do so and continue on their merry way. You can only double-spend bitcoin that you control. The people that are actually using bitcoin will simply continue to use bitcoin. Any strange blocks or attempt to re-write the blockchain will simply be ignored.

The fork is not last resort, the fork will happen as soon as the first block is formed that does not conform with the consensus rules.  

The network is secured by HASHPOWER! is this not obvious?  Does someone have a warehouse full of SHA512 ASICs laying around to secure the new fork if our hashpower gets compromised?

Even if it is, we can write the code for this new fork in 10 minutes? Convince everyone to use it (because convincing people of the need to upgrade is so damn easy).  I feel like the only sane guy in a loony bin!

or Inigo Montoya.

What is this term "censorship resistance?" I do not think it means what you think it means.

Yo, Dumbass, how much hashpower do you control? Zero? Ok then.

Shut up slave, you have no say in this. (Thank goodness)

Just sell all your coins and leave already. There, I've said it twice, I won't say it again.

(* how you like my version of whiny rage-quit? *)

[billyjoeallen]

Bitcoin: distributed decentralized money secured by cowardly miners concentrated in China.  There is no plan or code to switch security measures if they get compromised.

Awesome. This is where I keep my life savings.  I'm a fucking genius.

I've always assumed a majority of economically driven, rational miners.

Maybe that assumption is flawed.

So what happens when Bitcoin's market cap gets big enough to interfere with Chinese economic and monetary policy?  It would be naive to think they WOULDN'T compromise our security, if they had the means motive and opportunity to do so, which they do.

Miners are just people out trying to make a buck.  If they get threatened by the State, they will help launch a 51% attack, because it's the economically driven rational thing to do in that situation.