Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[rebuilder]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Oh, so the tx are valid, you just don't like the clients. Why didn't you just say so in the first place!

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[BitUsher]

Why fores users onto other competitive systems already this year Alts have grown 6% at the expense of Bitcoin.

Tell me how I can spend an altcoin without paying an exchange fee and waiting longer because it is converted to btc anyways?

[hdbuck]

1MB wins, gavin or hearn or whoever forker or angry banker turns back their spam scrypt.

still not tonight dearies.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Adrian-x]

It seems the cause of the problem is Core 0.12 nodes and miners not relaying valid transactions, causing the mempool to expand. The net result is less nodes and nodes that don't switch to the centralized control of Core 0.12 will become overloaded contributing to the problem.  

It is highly unlikely 0.12 has anything to do with it, as it represents just 15% of the network. If a tx is not relayed it will be rebroadcast until relayed. However it will stay in the mempool as unprocessed if it doesn't have the right fees.

Its not how many V0.12 nodes there are but how many miners use Core 0.12/ to mine, just 10 miners/nodes using using Core12  could cause the buildup of mempool in all other nodes - and it looks like it's now a problem.

check out https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.12.0

Particularly:
Memory pool limiting
Relay and Mining: Priority transactions ("The mining of transactions based on their priority is also now disabled by default")

[becoin]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Oh, so the tx are valid, you just don't like the clients. Why didn't you just say so in the first place!

Transactions are not valid as they can be part of bigger blocks! I don't care about who is sending such transactions if they are invalid.

[aztecminer]

Regarding fees and blocksize:
People use the best option they have until a better option materializes. This should be obvious. What is going to prevent people from using an altcoin when one becomes a better option, other than censorship and DDoS attacks? 

I watch Shark Tank and it has given me a good idea how successful investors think. Is the idea proprietary? What is the barrier to entry for competition? Is management skilled and motivated?

If you are not investing in a proprietary idea, You have to be investing in the skills/motivation/track record of management. If you aren't investing in at least one of those two things, you are throwing money away.

So knowing that, is Bitcoin a good investment?

its not a good investment until the problem is resolved. its good for short term trading, and its good for miners to make fiat profit ... this bitcoin games will end when obama leaves the wh .. we might see new games but obama is on his way out of the wh in only a few more months.

[AlexGR]

It seems the cause of the problem is Core 0.12 nodes and miners not relaying valid transactions, causing the mempool to expand. The net result is less nodes and nodes that don't switch to the centralized control of Core 0.12 will become overloaded contributing to the problem.  

It is highly unlikely 0.12 has anything to do with it, as it represents just 15% of the network. If a tx is not relayed it will be rebroadcast until relayed. However it will stay in the mempool as unprocessed if it doesn't have the right fees.

Its not how many V0.12 nodes there are but how many miners use Core 0.12/ to mine, just 10 miners/nodes using using Core12  could cause the buildup of mempool in all other nodes - and it looks like it's now a problem.

check out https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.12.0

Particularly:
Memory pool limiting
Relay and Mining: Priority transactions ([The mining of transactions based on their priority is also now disabled by default)

I think that's related to disabling the benefits of old coins that were "eligible" for free txs, over those who paid fees (if you hit the mempool limit).

[BitUsher]

That doesn't really answer my question. I wasn't just asking if Bitcoin is a good investment relative to Etherium. In some cases, it may be, depending on a person's risk tolerance, how long they want to hold it, etc,  but whether or not Bitcoin was something you could sell to the sharks on Shark Tank.  I don't think I could because I would have to sell a management team that frankly embarrasses me.

Well according to a top Shark they won't even consider a currency until it has 1 Billion or more market cap...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NPmthx4KM4

I can see businesses like IBM, and MSFT playing with ETH forks , but there is no way they are investing in Eth chain directly , that is being done mainly by young adults and teenagers who want to catch the next big IPO wave without understanding the fact that Ethereum has no practical use cases. Still waiting on even a hypothetical use case that is practical for ethereum ....  

[Adrian-x]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Oh, so the tx are valid, you just don't like the clients. Why didn't you just say so in the first place!

Transactions are not valid as they can be part of bigger blocks! I don't care about who is sending such transactions if they are invalid.

otherwise valid outputs should not become invalid because the demand for bitcoin has increases that's a recipe for collapse. just imagine the ~2,000,000 BTC stuck in the mempool were removed from circulation because they are invalid (fee that is too low) sounds good if it has only upside benefit but it will destroy confidence in the system you'd be pissed in your $3.00 transaction was at some point classified as spam and became invalid.  

[Adrian-x]

It seems the cause of the problem is Core 0.12 nodes and miners not relaying valid transactions, causing the mempool to expand. The net result is less nodes and nodes that don't switch to the centralized control of Core 0.12 will become overloaded contributing to the problem.  

It is highly unlikely 0.12 has anything to do with it, as it represents just 15% of the network. If a tx is not relayed it will be rebroadcast until relayed. However it will stay in the mempool as unprocessed if it doesn't have the right fees.

Its not how many V0.12 nodes there are but how many miners use Core 0.12/ to mine, just 10 miners/nodes using using Core12  could cause the buildup of mempool in all other nodes - and it looks like it's now a problem.

check out https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.12.0

Particularly:
Memory pool limiting
Relay and Mining: Priority transactions ([The mining of transactions based on their priority is also now disabled by default)

I think that's related to disabling the benefits of old coins that were "eligible" for free txs, over those who paid fees (if you hit the mempool limit).

The reason is there in black and white no need to think.

[bargainbin]

... no way they are investing in Eth chain directly , that is being done mainly by young adults and teenagers who want to catch the next big IPO wave without understanding the fact that Ethereum Bitcoin has no practical use cases. ...

...well, other than CP, shitty drugs & extortion, I mean.

[aztecminer]

Regarding fees and blocksize:
People use the best option they have until a better option materializes. This should be obvious. What is going to prevent people from using an altcoin when one becomes a better option, other than censorship and DDoS attacks?  

I watch Shark Tank and it has given me a good idea how successful investors think. Is the idea proprietary? What is the barrier to entry for competition? Is management skilled and motivated?

If you are not investing in a proprietary idea, You have to be investing in the skills/motivation/track record of management. If you aren't investing in at least one of those two things, you are throwing money away.

So knowing that, is Bitcoin a good investment?

All other altcoins are primarily used for speculation alone and have little if not any utility. One has to take a "shapeshift" exchange cut to even spend them. This could change in 5-10 years, no doubt, but it is unwise for people to recommend others to gamble into a testnet scam rather than simply offloading to fiat if they are unhappy with bitcoin. If someone wants to invest in an altcoin because they really believe in it and understand it than so be it... but those threatening to divest into ETH* are mainly doing so as a scare tactic.

No matter how big the blocksize is won't solve our problems. We can still easily doublespend 0 conf txs (without RBF), and waiting 2-3 conf (min recommended) isn't fast enough and will never allow bitcoin to go mainstream. We need Segwit ASAP and multiple payment channel solutions to allow for secure instant tx's and scalability. Allowing spam to drop off and go offchain temporarily is a good thing and will motivate our community to use payment channels instead of simply stuffing everything in a block in a sloppy manner.  

* I would love to hear of a hypothetical use case of Ethereum that wouldn't be better done through Bitcoin or Oracles.

That doesn't really answer my question. I wasn't just asking if Bitcoin is a good investment relative to Etherium. In some cases, it may be, depending on a person's risk tolerance, how long they want to hold it, etc,  but whether or not Bitcoin was something you could sell to the sharks on Shark Tank.  I don't think I could because I would have to sell a management team that frankly embarrasses me.

Utility is an argument for using Bitcoin, not for investing in it.  For that we would have to know what Bitcoin's future utility would likely be relative to alternatives.  That's unknown and honestly unknowable with current leadership. 

So you're right. This isn't just about blocksize. It's about leadership. We all agree that Bitcoin shouldn't be ruled by anyone, but without rulers, leaders become MORE important, not less.  Someone has to sell their vision well enough that consensus can form around it. That isn't accomplished by DDoS attacks and censorship. It's not achieved with flame wars, character assassinations, market manipulations or stalling tactics. It's achieved by good old-fashioned leadership. Until competent leadership emerges, Bitcoin will probably not be a good investment.

they are stuck between 350 and 500 for most, if not all, of this year until obama leaves office.. obama throw temper tantrums and torture kill people.. today bitcoin is still #gimpcoin .

[BitUsher]

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/703769346921930757/photo/1

Bitter Big blocker spamming the network?

[hdbuck]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Oh, so the tx are valid, you just don't like the clients. Why didn't you just say so in the first place!

Transactions are not valid as they can be part of bigger blocks! I don't care about who is sending such transactions if they are invalid.

otherwise valid outputs should not become invalid because the demand for bitcoin has increases that's a recipe for collapse. just imagine the ~2,000,000 BTC stuck in the mempool were removed from circulation because they are invalid (fee that is too low) sounds good if it has only upside benefit but it will destroy confidence in the system you'd be pissed in your $3.00 transaction was at some point classified as spam and became invalid.  

If only demand increased as much as your ignorance..

[AlexGR]

It seems the cause of the problem is Core 0.12 nodes and miners not relaying valid transactions, causing the mempool to expand. The net result is less nodes and nodes that don't switch to the centralized control of Core 0.12 will become overloaded contributing to the problem.  

It is highly unlikely 0.12 has anything to do with it, as it represents just 15% of the network. If a tx is not relayed it will be rebroadcast until relayed. However it will stay in the mempool as unprocessed if it doesn't have the right fees.

Its not how many V0.12 nodes there are but how many miners use Core 0.12/ to mine, just 10 miners/nodes using using Core12  could cause the buildup of mempool in all other nodes - and it looks like it's now a problem.

check out https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.12.0

Particularly:
Memory pool limiting
Relay and Mining: Priority transactions ([The mining of transactions based on their priority is also now disabled by default)

I think that's related to disabling the benefits of old coins that were "eligible" for free txs, over those who paid fees (if you hit the mempool limit).

The reason is there in black and white no need to think.

And as I re-read it, I'm confident it speaks of old coins that were to have priority, even without fees. There were 50kb assigned for "free txs" of old coins and the new rule is "fuck that if the system is running on the limit".

Bitcoin Core has a heuristic ‘priority’ based on coin value and age. This calculation is used for relaying of transactions which do not pay the minimum relay fee, and can be used as an alternative way of sorting transactions for mined blocks. Bitcoin Core will relay transactions with insufficient fees depending on the setting of -limitfreerelay=<r> (default: r=15 kB per minute) and -blockprioritysize=<s>.

In Bitcoin Core 0.12, when mempool limit has been reached a higher minimum relay fee takes effect to limit memory usage. Transactions which do not meet this higher effective minimum relay fee will not be relayed or mined even if they rank highly according to the priority heuristic.

So "if system is running at capacity, don't expect free relay even if your coin is old".

[Adrian-x]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Oh, so the tx are valid, you just don't like the clients. Why didn't you just say so in the first place!

Transactions are not valid as they can be part of bigger blocks! I don't care about who is sending such transactions if they are invalid.

otherwise valid outputs should not become invalid because the demand for bitcoin has increases that's a recipe for collapse. just imagine the ~2,000,000 BTC stuck in the mempool were removed from circulation because they are invalid (fee that is too low) sounds good if it has only upside benefit but it will destroy confidence in the system you'd be pissed in your $3.00 transaction was at some point classified as spam and became invalid.  

If only demand increased as much as your ignorance..

  Hey iCE nice to see you too, I'm sorry but when I see your avatar I see that video play in my head of a fat man trying to get into a building hording a Frappuccino, its not exactly an image of someone who is invested in the success of Bitcoin.  Let alone willing to contribute to it.  

I preferred your old avatar, more honest.

[brg444]

Spam limit working as intended 

[becoin]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Oh, so the tx are valid, you just don't like the clients. Why didn't you just say so in the first place!

Transactions are not valid as they can be part of bigger blocks! I don't care about who is sending such transactions if they are invalid.

otherwise valid outputs should not become invalid because the demand for bitcoin has increases that's a recipe for collapse. just imagine the ~2,000,000 BTC stuck in the mempool were removed from circulation because they are invalid (fee that is too low) sounds good if it has only upside benefit but it will destroy confidence in the system you'd be pissed in your $3.00 transaction was at some point classified as spam and became invalid.  

If only demand increased as much as your ignorance..

haha... exactly!

[jbreher]

I'm banning all 'classic' and XT nodes as transactions sent by those spammers are not valid transactions. They are altcoin promoters.

What is it in the tx data that makes them invalid?

I'm not obliged to explain again and again why free block space to every bitcoin spammer will ruin bitcoin. I've made enough efforts. I'm the owner of the node I run. I decide which tx are valid and which are not! Time to end futile discussions with big blocktards. It is time to act.

Certainly, it is within your power and within your right to refrain from forwarding any transactions as you desire. But that does not really answer the question.

If you have no criteria for objectively determining whether a given transaction was originated by a Classic or an XT node, you'll still be forwarding these that were forwarded to you by intervening Core nodes. Accordingly, how is it that you believe your action to be anything other than impotent?