Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[york780]

This is very weird.

It's the first time that, being so close to ATH, the thread is not full of rocket pictures and moon posts... In fact, I haven't seen any.

Bullish?

Well it seems people are getting used to that price level.
For pictures of rocket launches or bitcoin heading moon I think we will need a new ATH or some short crazy upwards spike!

Anyway I posted this yesterday tho 

I want to believe

[1713958511]

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[1713958511]

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[becoin]

could be bitfinex a new mtgox pump?

I don't see any pump yet.

[Nagadota]

could be bitfinex a new mtgox pump?

I don't see any pump yet.

Currently, the price on Bitfinex is 1323 USD.  The price on Bitstamp is 1242 USD and the price on BTC-E is 1235 USD, even though BTC-E is having problems with fiat deposits as well.

There's a huge pump already, and it's only going to get bigger.

[European Central Bank]

Currently, the price on Bitfinex is 1323 USD.  The price on Bitstamp is 1242 USD and the price on BTC-E is 1235 USD, even though BTC-E is having problems with fiat deposits as well.

There's a huge pump already, and it's only going to get bigger.

that's not a pump. that's the symptom of exchange dysfunction.

[bitebits]

For the love of Adam, please Bitfinex get to $1337 before you pull back.

(I speculate that is hopefully the moment we will see our OP back in it's true form)

[cmacwiz]

Happy days, the price is creeping up. Whilst nothing overly exciting (long term) a successful assault on $1300 would feel good.

As for BFX, they've had so many problems over the last year or two. I have no idea why people were still willing to leave bitcoin's or USD there. So many warnings but people continued to use them. Fuckinh stupid if you ask me.

Interestingly, bitfinex's determination to fix their problems (bfx tokens) makes them come across as honestly trying. Why would an exchange suddenly act maliciously and fleece everybody, when they have worked hard to make up for their past technical and financial issues? Then again, Gox had (and tried to fix?) problems before the big heist.

When you play with fire, you can get burnt. You can also cook a great steak.

I have been pondering this a bit too.

My dollar situation on Bitfinex is a bit strange.

In August 2016, just like everyone else who held value on Bitfinex, about 36% of my value on Bitfinex was socialized into BFX tokens, and over about 7 months those BFX tokens were slowly reimbursed.. maybe around 10% of them were reimbursed into dollars between September 2016 and March 2017, even though bitcoin prices doubled during that time.

So, yeah there ended up being opportunity costs to have had value tied up in BFX tokens, but then April 3, Bitfinex reimbursed 100% of all of the then outstanding BFX tokens, which caused my account to have a larger percentage of dollars in the account.

Thereafter, when the bank account drama developed and therefore BTC price disparities, it became less feasible to buy bitcoins with dollars on Bitfinex because the price of bitcoins on Bitfinex turned into about a 5-8% premium.

And, again the price disparity that conveniently came after they had redeemed all BFX tokens seems like another opportunity for insiders on Bitfinex to game the system.

Sure, I don't really want to read malice into coincidences and/or incompetence, but sometimes the longer that the disparity exists, the more opportunities seem to exist for insiders to exploit and make appearances as one thing when other things are going on (isn't that smoke and mirrors?).
 
I guess that I am saying that the situation can become a bit more irritating, when you might hold value there and then you recognize these little ways in which your value is potentially being undermined and/or manipulated in ways that are really difficult to prove.

Again, I am not really much of any kind of conspiracist, but these coincidental disparities continue to cause concerns.

As for bfx tokens, bitfinex could have taken a big hit if bitcoin crashed hard and stayed down, so it seems they were a bit fortunate in that regard.

Otherwise, it does seem like they make a mistake/oversight, and then go about a practical way of solving it that doesn't prioritize integrity. That is to say, they take no issue in exploiting a hairy circumstance that they incidentally created.

In the meantime, bitfinex users have only one hope:

"Swiper no swiping! Swiper no swiping! Swiper no swiping!"

[JimboToronto]

This is very weird.

It's the first time that, being so close to ATH, the thread is not full of rocket pictures and moon posts... In fact, I haven't seen any.

Bullish?

We're nowhere near an ATH. We're over $100 away.

Surely you're not counting Bitfinex. Their price means nothing. Haven't you been following the news about their bank transfer woes?

[becoin]

could be bitfinex a new mtgox pump?

I don't see any pump yet.

Currently, the price on Bitfinex is 1323 USD.  The price on Bitstamp is 1242 USD and the price on BTC-E is 1235 USD, even though BTC-E is having problems with fiat deposits as well.

There's a huge pump already, and it's only going to get bigger.

That is only 6% price differential. That can hardly be described as a new mtgox pump.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

As for bfx tokens, bitfinex could have taken a big hit if bitcoin crashed hard and stayed down, so it seems they were a bit fortunate in that regard.

Otherwise, it does seem like they make a mistake/oversight, and then go about a practical way of solving it that doesn't prioritize integrity. That is to say, they take no issue in exploiting a hairy circumstance that they incidentally created.

In the meantime, bitfinex users have only one hope:

"Swiper no swiping! Swiper no swiping! Swiper no swiping!"

I don't mind giving some benefit of the doubt to various exchange operators or even attempting to ascribe some incidentalness to whatever situation develops - yet you come off as giving way too much credence to them and also acting as if we really know what happened and what is happening. 

The world is much more complicated with a variety of players - and several Bitfinex insiders know a whole hell-of-a lot more than what they are sharing, and no doubt that there is a variety of risk, too, and sure it is much better for many of us that Bitfinex chose to socialize some of the risk (and loss) rather than to run off with bitcoins.. .but in the end, there are a variety of players and a variety of levels information, misinformation and spin - and at this point, we cannot really know the answers to some of the questions that you seem to assume.

[cmacwiz]

I don't mind giving some benefit of the doubt to various exchange operators or even attempting to ascribe some incidentalness to whatever situation develops - yet you come off as giving way too much credence to them and also acting as if we really know what happened and what is happening. 

The world is much more complicated with a variety of players - and several Bitfinex insiders know a whole hell-of-a lot more than what they are sharing, and no doubt that there is a variety of risk, too, and sure it is much better for many of us that Bitfinex chose to socialize some of the risk (and loss) rather than to run off with bitcoins.. .but in the end, there are a variety of players and a variety of levels information, misinformation and spin - and at this point, we cannot really know the answers to some of the questions that you seem to assume.

I am not giving the benefit of the doubt to bitfinex; I am confident that what their top notch PR squad says is not what is going on. This doesn't mean that the things could be incidental, then exploited. Hell, was Gox an accident?

[JayJuanGee]

I don't mind giving some benefit of the doubt to various exchange operators or even attempting to ascribe some incidentalness to whatever situation develops - yet you come off as giving way too much credence to them and also acting as if we really know what happened and what is happening.  

The world is much more complicated with a variety of players - and several Bitfinex insiders know a whole hell-of-a lot more than what they are sharing, and no doubt that there is a variety of risk, too, and sure it is much better for many of us that Bitfinex chose to socialize some of the risk (and loss) rather than to run off with bitcoins.. .but in the end, there are a variety of players and a variety of levels information, misinformation and spin - and at this point, we cannot really know the answers to some of the questions that you seem to assume.

I am not giving the benefit of the doubt to bitfinex; I am confident that what their top notch PR squad says is not what is going on. This doesn't mean that the things could be incidental, then exploited. Hell, was Gox an accident?

Fair enough.

I may merely be quibbling regarding how you said something rather than what you said.

I think that we largely agree that there is likely a lot going on and sometimes what they say and what they do can have some variance, too.

[yefi]

I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin would fall so dramatically that it wouldn't recover, that it would fail or even that we're moving into a bear market.  I was just saying that when there's growth this quick with no serious positive events to cause it, it's reasonable to think that at the very least there will be a serious correction before it keeps moving forward.

One might argue that it isn't even reasonable that we're here, but here we are. If this rally can surpass the ATH, then we may see an extension into the 1600s or more.

[brokedummy]

It's going to crash and let me tell you why. Satoshi Nakamoto is going to see the price at bitfinex and poloniex and he is going to sell.

[Raja_MBZ]

It's going to crash and let me tell you why. Satoshi Nakamoto is going to see the price at bitfinex and poloniex and he is going to sell.

...LOL...

Probably the most funniest post I've seen on bitcointalk till now.

[r0ach]

Bitcoin is neither over-bought nor overvalued.

If the purpose of bitcoin is to be decentralized, then it's value should probably be zero due to the following:

creating a "decentralized" currency is probably not even possible without the ability to make something like decentralized captchas where mining requires manual human intervention, otherwise it's just externalized proof of stake in practice - a Rube Goldberg machine that doesn't solve anything.  If you can extract money from people simply by amassing a large amount of capital and using that advantage against them making it where they can't compete or they're forced to buy from you, that's called rent seeking usury, not decentralization.

This then goes back to the Warren Buffet argument about gold where he claims it's stupid for economics to be dictated by people digging something up from the ground then putting it back into the ground again (vault).  It would be kind of the same with decentralized captchas/puzzles - people mindlessly staring at a screen all day doing nothing productive except solving a captcha for money.  In both cases (gold mining and captcha based bitcoin mining) you're spending time and resources in a mostly unproductive pursuit.  

Current ASIC Bitcoin mining puts this process on cruise control, but the mere fact that it's on cruise control means it's just plain old rent seeking usury in practice and solves nothing in terms of economic monopoly.  Bitcoin is currently designed as a usury system for men to have control of other men as slaves.  It's externalized proof of stake - a closed entropy system in practice PRETENDING to be open entropy.

[MrPiggles]

Just sent $25k to an exchange and had it confirmed in 1 minute for $0.40

Niiiiice. backlog was annoying a week or so ago

[Karartma1]

Just sent $25k to an exchange and had it confirmed in 1 minute for $0.40

Niiiiice. backlog was annoying a week or so ago

you sent BTC but you cannot call them that way. You still need to call them dollars   

[Qartada]

Bitcoin is neither over-bought nor overvalued.

If the purpose of bitcoin is to be decentralized, then it's value should probably be zero due to the following:

creating a "decentralized" currency is probably not even possible without the ability to make something like decentralized captchas where mining requires manual human intervention, otherwise it's just externalized proof of stake in practice - a Rube Goldberg machine that doesn't solve anything.  If you can extract money from people simply by amassing a large amount of capital and using that advantage against them making it where they can't compete or they're forced to buy from you, that's called rent seeking usury, not decentralization.

This then goes back to the Warren Buffet argument about gold where he claims it's stupid for economics to be dictated by people digging something up from the ground then putting it back into the ground again (vault).  It would be kind of the same with decentralized captchas/puzzles - people mindlessly staring at a screen all day doing nothing productive except solving a captcha for money.  In both cases (gold mining and captcha based bitcoin mining) you're spending time and resources in a mostly unproductive pursuit.  

Current ASIC Bitcoin mining puts this process on cruise control, but the mere fact that it's on cruise control means it's just plain old rent seeking usury in practice and solves nothing in terms of economic monopoly.  Bitcoin is currently designed as a usury system for men to have control of other men as slaves.  It's externalized proof of stake - a closed entropy system in practice PRETENDING to be open entropy.

It's not stupid for economics to be dictated by an asset.  That's just protection against an inflationary currency.

Gold is dictated by its value as a scarce resource - with fiat currency, any amount of it could be created at any time, whereas with gold, the supply is moderately predictable which rightly gives people a sense of stability.

Bitcoin is similar, while also being decentralised which gives it intrinsic value as a safe digital asset, as well as having additional benefits like being infinitely divisible and safer to hold as it can't be directly stolen if you store it properly.

[orpington]

Just sent $25k to an exchange and had it confirmed in 1 minute for $0.40

Niiiiice. backlog was annoying a week or so ago

you sent BTC but you cannot call them that way. You still need to call them dollars   

thats funny

[Globb0]

Bitcoin is neither over-bought nor overvalued.

If the purpose of bitcoin is to be decentralized, then it's value should probably be zero due to the following:

creating a "decentralized" currency is probably not even possible without the ability to make something like decentralized captchas where mining requires manual human intervention, otherwise it's just externalized proof of stake in practice - a Rube Goldberg machine that doesn't solve anything.  If you can extract money from people simply by amassing a large amount of capital and using that advantage against them making it where they can't compete or they're forced to buy from you, that's called rent seeking usury, not decentralization.

This then goes back to the Warren Buffet argument about gold where he claims it's stupid for economics to be dictated by people digging something up from the ground then putting it back into the ground again (vault).  It would be kind of the same with decentralized captchas/puzzles - people mindlessly staring at a screen all day doing nothing productive except solving a captcha for money.  In both cases (gold mining and captcha based bitcoin mining) you're spending time and resources in a mostly unproductive pursuit.  

Current ASIC Bitcoin mining puts this process on cruise control, but the mere fact that it's on cruise control means it's just plain old rent seeking usury in practice and solves nothing in terms of economic monopoly.  Bitcoin is currently designed as a usury system for men to have control of other men as slaves.  It's externalized proof of stake - a closed entropy system in practice PRETENDING to be open entropy.

Mining doing nothing but eating up the planets resources, with less and less efficiency.

If bitcoin goes mega scale someone will have to find a way to make it greener. Or we will all be sitting naked and hungry, oh but with some bitcoins. Woo hoo.