Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Rampion]

We start the day with a nice bump

[1713916042]

1713916042

[1713916042]

1713916042

[ChartBuddy]

[crazy_rabbit]

That valley only gets deeper. I wanted to hope the price would rise, but I think we're going to stick right around this price point. Too much on either side to move much.

[gizmoh]

Gox is slow and unavailable. Goxxing never stops..


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[Rampion]

[lebing]

Gox is slow and unavailable. Goxxing never stops..


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works ok for me

[Pzi4nk]

IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things.  And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. (Emphasis by Pzi4nk)

I like your overall message but I wonder about the part I highlighted. Do you really think bitcoin is immune from the manipulations of wealthy people, much less governments?

Not to be inflamitory but it seems to me wherever there's a market it can be manipulated by great wealth.

[molecular]

IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things.  And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. (Emphasis by Pzi4nk)

I like your overall message but I wonder about the part I highlighted. Do you really think bitcoin is immune from the manipulations of wealthy people, much less governments?

Not to be inflamitory but it seems to me wherever there's a market it can be manipulated by great wealth.

The thing is (at least for me): parasitic governments currently have (at least) two major ways to milk the populous: taxes and "the hidden inflation tax". The latter one will not be possible with sound money. This means governments will have to produce their income from visible taxation. They also have to act responsibly fiscally (just like every other entity) because they wont be able to just borrow in a virtually unlimited fashion.

This hopefully results in leaner, more responsible and more accountable governments and a overall better situation for the people living under them.

[ChartBuddy]

[Rampion]

IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things.  And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. (Emphasis by Pzi4nk)

I like your overall message but I wonder about the part I highlighted. Do you really think bitcoin is immune from the manipulations of wealthy people, much less governments?

Not to be inflamitory but it seems to me wherever there's a market it can be manipulated by great wealth.

Its About Sharing is 100% right. I will answer you with a quote:

Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws. Mater Amschel Rothschild, founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty.

The ones controlling the money supply are ruling de facto. Bitcoin takes that power away from them. And this is why, sooner or later, governments (which strictly follow the commands of the real rulers, the financial lobby) will try to destroy Bitcoin.

[solex]

IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things.  And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. (Emphasis by Pzi4nk)

I like your overall message but I wonder about the part I highlighted. Do you really think bitcoin is immune from the manipulations of wealthy people, much less governments?

Not to be inflamitory but it seems to me wherever there's a market it can be manipulated by great wealth.

The thing is (at least for me): parasitic governments currently have (at least) two major ways to milk the populous: taxes and "the hidden inflation tax". The latter one will not be possible with sound money. This means governments will have to produce their income from visible taxation. They also have to act responsibly fiscally (just like every other entity) because they wont be able to just borrow in a virtually unlimited fashion.

This hopefully results in leaner, more responsible and more accountable governments and a overall better situation for the people living under them.

That's exactly my hope too. Smaller governments. 100 years ago people only interacted with the government to get births, deaths and marriages registered, and perhaps a passport. Today governments are constantly in the face of every citizen. Clearly they should be slashed by something like 50% or 75% until they only make up 10% of the economy. Everyone would have vastly improved freedoms and quality of life. Once the massive distortions caused by the debt-based money and shadow-banking systems are eliminated national economies would hum along smoothly. Will it happen..?

[EuroTrash]

The thing is (at least for me): parasitic governments currently have (at least) two major ways to milk the populous: taxes and "the hidden inflation tax". The latter one will not be possible with sound money. This means governments will have to produce their income from visible taxation. They also have to act responsibly fiscally (just like every other entity) because they wont be able to just borrow in a virtually unlimited fashion.

This hopefully results in leaner, more responsible and more accountable governments and a overall better situation for the people living under them.

This.
Also transactions between me and the government (=taxes) would be part of the blockchain.
The government could then be made directly accountable for spending coins from their addresses.

[Its About Sharing]

It can last weeks.

That's not very long in the grand scheme of things.

I beg to differ. Confidence is about knowing we won't tank. Compare with 2011. We're doing pretty good.

And what happens if we do tank?

Don't be all in or all out. If we tank than use your cash to pick up more shares. If we go up then at least you don't have to buy in later 2X as much.

I know this is a speculation thread but we shouldn't really lose sight of the point here. It isn't about making money per say. It is about helping a new money to get a foothold. It is about being an early adopter to a revolutionary and risky idea. I'm cool with all that.

So, instead of what others find to be a good entry point, make that decision for yourself. All I have to look at is the current "float" - 11 million is nothing. That is worth taking a chance over.

IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things.  And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together.

I'm afraid I can't see that.  Yeah, it makes money for people, but it makes more money for people who have more money.  This shifts some of that control around a bit, but it isn't revolutionary in that way.  It is revolutionary in that it allows people to trade without involving fiat.  That potential isn't realized yet, but it is there.  The potential to make it all about sharing?  Not so much.

Sounds like you are too close to the tree and can't quite make out the forest. I don't disagree with you, Yes, in the near term you are right. I don't think BTC is THE answer, but I do think it is taking money in a new direction. In the end, money won't matter, but till we get there we are taking steps. In the meantime till money is not about power, there are choices - time based currencies are a great idea and will probably compliment BTC. But getting away Fiat currencies that back wars/killing should be at the top of our humane list of money's problems.

You know how they say BTC will only have 21 million coins in 2140 (or whenever that is) - you know, I don't think it will get that far. Money as we know it, money as BTC, etc only has a few more decades if that (yes, imo). As long as money allows power over others, as does our political system, we will always be searching for more. And we will probably get there. If we are every going to truly live together, a much more star trek type system on money will be in order. When we get there and look back all these forms of money will seem barbaric, but each new one is hopefully a step in the right direction.

[ErisDiscordia]

This.
Also transactions between me and the government (=taxes) would be part of the blockchain.
The government could then be made directly accountable for spending coins from their addresses.

This is a very important aspect of Bitcoin. It forces institutions who would want to collect taxes via Bitcoin into honesty, because everybody can see their transactions. Also as mentioned, it takes away the option of the hidden inflation tax from them.

In my opinion Bitcoin has such attributes, which make it destined to be attacked by governments and their financial backers. At the same time it's built with the anticipation of such attacks in mind and promises not to be subject to control from any one entity. I say it shall be a grand fight!

[Its About Sharing]

IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things.  And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. (Emphasis by Pzi4nk)

I like your overall message but I wonder about the part I highlighted. Do you really think bitcoin is immune from the manipulations of wealthy people, much less governments?

Not to be inflamitory but it seems to me wherever there's a market it can be manipulated by great wealth.

Its About Sharing is 100% right. I will answer you with a quote:

Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws. Mater Amschel Rothschild, founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty.

The ones controlling the money supply are ruling de facto. Bitcoin takes that power away from them. And this is why, sooner or later, governments (which strictly follow the commands of the real rulers, the financial lobby) will try to destroy Bitcoin.

That is all I'm saying. BTC is a step in the right direction. These viritual currencies will show us that money is in large part about trust. And since no one trusts governments, the next few logical steps seem clear. The masses will never move en mass unless they have to. At least with BTC there is an intermediary to start moving out of state controlled money's and I think the Chinese see BTC as a bit of a savior from them and the USD. It is probably going to get "exciting" there soon. Seems like Syria is on the agenda and talks between the west and Russia/China are centering around it. I really hope we can avoid disaster there, that is a tipping point imo.

[keewee]

[Its About Sharing]

This.
Also transactions between me and the government (=taxes) would be part of the blockchain.
The government could then be made directly accountable for spending coins from their addresses.

This is a very important aspect of Bitcoin. It forces institutions who would want to collect taxes via Bitcoin into honesty, because everybody can see their transactions. Also as mentioned, it takes away the option of the hidden inflation tax from them.

In my opinion Bitcoin has such attributes, which make it destined to be attacked by governments and their financial backers. At the same time it's built with the anticipation of such attacks in mind and promises not to be subject to control from any one entity. I say it shall be a grand fight!

Yes, the ledger is sweet, is it not?  
But they don't have to hide anything as they often say don't worry to us about "them" watching us, unless we are hiding things from them. An open and honest society in both directions. We are the government is what people and "governments" alike are starting to realize....

I envision having many crypto currencies in the near future, just as there are many state run currencies. Governments will be scrambling, as will militaries. There is just too much to keep an eye on. We are now in the Universe's hands...

Anyone looking for a Virus... look no further than BTC... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijPE7fe4XTg

[ChartBuddy]

[elux]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-12/visualizing-how-bitcoin-transaction-works

[el_rlee]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-12/visualizing-how-bitcoin-transaction-works

seen here first

http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/bitcoin-the-cryptoanarchists-answer-to-cash