Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jbreher]

BCH is much more centralized,

Exactly in what manner do you assert that BCH is more centralized? (Presumably with respect to BTC?)

plus it's at the mercy of any script-kid wanting to spam it for peanuts and fill it with gigabytes/day of spam. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it can't happen. I would probably do it myself for 24hrs or so, just to make an "academic" point that the "mempool is full" bullshit and "we need an upgrade" can equally apply to a 8mb chain if one goes out and spams it.

You should do that. I'd be interested in the results of that little experiment. Of course, the results would be more informative if the mempool was spammed to persistently full for days on end.

The marketing being pushed by the same crew is about the peer-to-peer e-cash system, with emphasis on the e-cash aspect. Centralization changes the first aspect: As people become unable to participate as peers, you go from peer-to-peer to a client/server model.

Yet it has been demonstrated that typical contemporary consumer-grade PC running the satoshi client can handle about 100 tx/s. With some simple SW improvements (which, for some reason, core has not deigned to perform), such a typical PC can handle about 500 tx/s. The 'unable to participate as peers' conjecture is shown to be a canard.

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[Ibian]

2) Don't flaunt your wealth on social media:
http://altdigitalcurrency.com/?p=130.

Always hide your power-level.

This applies as well when you conceal carry a firearm.

still trying to find a convenient way to conceal carry my preferred weapon of self-defense - sword.

http://www.trueswords.com/sword-canes-c-103.html

Not sure on legality, but for pure style you can't beat it.

[jbreher]

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

I may be many things to many people. I may be a pariah to those whose faith in BTC is tenuous enough to be threatened by what I have to say. But one thing I am not is dishonest -- at least not intentionally dishonest -- to bitcointalk.org.

[Ibian]

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

I may be many things to many people. I may be a pariah to those whose faith in BTC is tenuous enough to be threatened by what I have to say. But one thing I am not is dishonest -- at least not intentionally dishonest -- to bitcointalk.org.

Let's pretend that's the case. Then you are simply a fool. That is not any better.

[Ibian]

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

I may be many things to many people. I may be a pariah to those whose faith in BTC is tenuous enough to be threatened by what I have to say. But one thing I am not is dishonest -- at least not intentionally dishonest -- to bitcointalk.org.

Okay, no. Let's do this right.

Let's say your clonecoin takes over. It gains majority hash power, in a permanent and convincing way. There is no chance that segwit will ever regain dominance.

How would this play out? How would the millions of bitcoiners around the world, most of which know nothing of this power struggle, react, to the newly established fact that their bitcoins are no longer bitcoins? How would the change in wallets to accommodate a different chain take place? What would it do to the price, and the future of cryptocurrency as a whole?

I am only giving you this one chance to be reasonable. Do with it what you will.

[lightfoot]

You know, there was a time in the world where a man could walk around freely with his sword or pistol on his hip. And no one would fk with him.

If you're referring to the cowboy era, you do realize that most towns had ordinances which required turning in guns to the sheriff.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return to that. 

Hm. :-)

[Lopumbo]

what do you guys think about the Tether/Bitfinex conspiracy? Where is all this money coming from? Is bitfinex just "washtrading" the price in its desired direction?
Imho price of Bitcoin at 1k$ was the result of somehow healthy grow (~$10Mio Tether), now we have 7x this price (~600Mio Tether). This might be the next MtGox.

Get rich quick 101
1. Buy BTC with real USD
2. Print Tether
3. Pump BTC with Tether
4. FOMO
5. Sell BTC for USD
6. Profit

When you understand how washtrading works you'll understand that 20Mio Tether are enough to increase MarketCap by 20Billion$.
This works as long as the price of BTC stays high. Never short Bitcoin in the current situation. This bubble (Tether out of thin air) will pop.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

You know, there was a time in the world where a man could walk around freely with his sword or pistol on his hip. And no one would fk with him.

If you're referring to the cowboy era, you do realize that most towns had ordinances which required turning in guns to the sheriff.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return to that. 

Hm. :-)

I see, you guys are from America, but here in Asia we smile, and think: "fuckyourself".
And i can tell you, it works !

[jbreher]

I've only deleted a handful of his posts.

This has taken a lot of self control over the months. I always cringe when he posts because virtually every post is a direct or indirect attack on bitcoin, or a promotion of BCH.
He does sometimes have legitimate points, but they don't need to be repeated ad nauseam. Also, the thread was never about altcoins. As I mentioned in an earlier post, he has a somewhat privileged position in this thread due to his length of time participating in it, and his relatively thoughtful posts.

During busy times, I often have a few messages asking me to review certain posts, so I take those suggestions into consideration as well.

I'll also be the first to admit that I may be a less than stellar moderator.    

I'll just consider it teething pains. I'm sure it is a difficult and thankless job.

However, I ask that you reconsider whether or not you are deleting only posts by me that are 'direct or indirect attack on bitcoin' or promotion of BCH. Let us look at this one and evaluate: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2402558.msg24766720#msg24766720

This post had responses to four different posts. Three of them were directly concerning BTC. The fourth was a reply to the Tesla Roadster thing.

Certainly, the first of the four replies had quoted and sourced info which could be construed as positive to BCH and negative to BTC. However, it was correcting false information promulgated by the person to whom I was replying regarding mining profitability. I posted current state (factual information) and the source URL so he could check it himself next time.

The next was providing helpful info answering a question regarding the BTC mempool, free of any value judgement.

Third was the Tesla thing.

Fourth was merely defending against an accusation of 'FUD', when the supposed fud was merely the discussion regarding the limit of number of users BCH + Lightning can support, assuming each user would open and close their channel daily (the 2 tx/user/day was the hypothetical introduced by the party to whom I was responding earlier). While this could be _viewed_ as negative, it is really just the way it is, and therefore value-neutral.

[gembitz]

You know, there was a time in the world where a man could walk around freely with his sword or pistol on his hip. And no one would fk with him.

If you're referring to the cowboy era, you do realize that most towns had ordinances which required turning in guns to the sheriff.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return to that. 

Hm. :-)

I see, you guys are from America, but here in Asia we smile, and think: "fuckyourself".
And i can tell you, it works !

fuck you : meanwhile you buy up all the U.S. bonds ? :-D lmao

[hv_]

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

Bitcoin is whatever the consensus mechanism decides it is. That was the original idea and one of the foundational pillars of what makes bitcoin as an idea able to function at all, and the result is in. Continuing to complain about it, and even going to far as to split the blockchain in two, is nothing short of an attempt to undermine bitcoin as a whole. They are enemies, not only of the personal wealth of many of us here, but far more importantly they are enemies of a lifeboat for countless millions of people when the economy collapses. They are, in a word, evil, right down to their core.

Bitcoin is broken due to high fees and unreliable confirmation times.  


- I want to help bank the billions of unbanked across the world.

- I want a low-friction form of money that people in Venezuela or the next Zimbabwe can use to escape hyperinflation.

- I want a border-less form of money that the people or Argentina can use to bypass capital controls.

- I want a transportable form of money that I can pay to a programmer in India for work on the Bitcoin Unlimited website, thereby helping bring disenfranchised groups across the world out of poverty.  

- I want bitcoin to be so massively adopted that it becomes politically impossible to shut down, ending governments ability to raise money for war and other atrocities with the stealth-tax of inflation.


You cannot achieve those goals with a crippled bitcoin limited to 3 transactions per second (and no, LN is no panacea either, but that's another discussion).  

And then you call me evil for working to bring bitcoin back to its original vision as better money that would improve the lives of people all across the world.

Give you head a shake, Ibian.

Maybe you should mention more clearly that we all want that above and at best with same (on-chain) security as bitcoin has shown us to work very fine over about 9 years now (sadly only with 1MB blocks yet).

All other ways are totally unproven technobubble experiments which need to aprove security for many years bevore we want to release them to these poorest people on earth who really need the BEST security we can give them or they might lose their very last stakes as well which could mean their death!

Dont forget that we rich here can afford to lose a bit at these new experiments but have no rights ever to play with poor ppls money!

[JayJuanGee]

So I was at a happy hour and a couple of colleagues brought up the subject of Bitcoin out of the blue. It was all I could do to bite my tongue, none of them know I own any bitcoin and never will.

So one of them brings up the old, tired Peter Schiff argument of "Well at least Gold has intrinsic value. You can make jewelry out of it. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value."

So I look at him and casually say, "So you can make jewelry out of gold. Fair enough. So what then, gives jewelry value?"

That look on his face when his brain seemed to completely lock up for about a minute was priceless.

And then when his brain started processing again, of course comes the requisite reply, "Um, what do you mean? Because jewelry...has gold in it?"

People simply don't understand the philosophical basis for human's valuing anything. Everything is just taken for granted.

you carry such a duel existence....   hhahahaha   


I concede that I do the same thing.  I don't want certain people knowing certain specifics about my life - however, I tend to disclose to some peeps that I have ben buying BTC since 2013 - which, I concede, in some situations may be too much personal information for them (and they don't really have a "need to know" and I might not have a need to share it, except that I tend to want to share the "bitcoin love".... I was going to say "crypto love" because it sounds cooler, but we all know that the concept of "bitcoin" and "crypto" becomes conflated so frequently, that such conflation is beginning to become a kind of pet peeve of mine, sad as that might be.)

[jbreher]

jbreher is actively trying to destroy bitcoin.

Just no. You couldn't be further from the truth. Not only am I not trying to destroy bitcoin, I am trying to save it. Hell, I am not even trying to destroy Bitcoin Segwit. Such a postulate would be ludicrous, as I hold more BTC than I could possibly make through 'normal' means such as my salary -- and I am within the USA 6%* top in that regard -- if I worked for the rest of my life.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Distribution_of_household_income_in_2014_according_to_US_Census_data

It is true that in my analysis, I find Bitcoin Cash to be superior to Bitcoin Segwit. For everyone. Except maybe those who have invested their reputation in core. And my statements are largely positive on BCH. But the only negative statements I make on BTC, are in relation to the manners in which it is lacking compared to BCH. And always truthful - at least to the best of my knowledge.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

You know, there was a time in the world where a man could walk around freely with his sword or pistol on his hip. And no one would fk with him.

If you're referring to the cowboy era, you do realize that most towns had ordinances which required turning in guns to the sheriff.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return to that. 

Hm. :-)

I see, you guys are from America, but here in Asia we smile, and think: "fuckyourself".
And i can tell you, it works !

fuck you : meanwhile you buy up all the U.S. bonds ? :-D lmao

Nope, all my leftover money into crypto, thats where the future is !

[JimboToronto]

Alright. We're back over $10kCAD on Bitcoinaverage. Feels good.

Now let's go for the ATH and $10kUSD.

[orpington]

jbreher is actively trying to destroy bitcoin.

Just no. You couldn't be further from the truth. Not only am I not trying to destroy bitcoin, I am trying to save it. Hell, I am not even trying to destroy Bitcoin Segwit. Such a postulate would be ludicrous, as I hold more BTC than I could possibly make through 'normal' means such as my salary -- and I am within the USA 6%* top in that regard -- if I worked for the rest of my life.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Distribution_of_household_income_in_2014_according_to_US_Census_data

It is true that in my analysis, I find Bitcoin Cash to be superior to Bitcoin Segwit. For everyone. Except maybe those who have invested their reputation in core. And my statements are largely positive on BCH. But the only negative statements I make on BTC, are in relation to the manners in which it is lacking compared to BCH. And always truthful - at least to the best of my knowledge.

trying to save bitcoin by destroying it.

makes sense. lol

[Torque]

jbreher is actively trying to destroy bitcoin.

Just no. You couldn't be further from the truth. Not only am I not trying to destroy bitcoin, I am trying to save it. Hell, I am not even trying to destroy Bitcoin Segwit. Such a postulate would be ludicrous, as I hold more BTC than I could possibly make through 'normal' means such as my salary -- and I am within the USA 6%* top in that regard -- if I worked for the rest of my life.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Distribution_of_household_income_in_2014_according_to_US_Census_data

It is true that in my analysis, I find Bitcoin Cash to be superior to Bitcoin Segwit. For everyone. Except maybe those who have invested their reputation in core. And my statements are largely positive on BCH. But the only negative statements I make on BTC, are in relation to the manners in which it is lacking compared to BCH. And always truthful - at least to the best of my knowledge.

Troll tactic #47 - Leading with the sympathy/empathy card

Haha, two trolls in the same day using the same tactic?

News flash Walter Cronkite: We don't believe you and more importantly, we don't care.

[jbreher]

I want to...

I don't believe anyone would object to that if code was offered up that was demonstrably superior in every way and addressed every technical doubt about that approach. If it was then enough people would agree, migrate and that would become Bitcoin.

Most people are not married to the Core path. What Core has that can't be touched at present is straightforward competence and that's what keeps their grip on Bitcoin's development.

That is, er, not quite the case with the present campaign.

Denigrating assertion does not stand up to the scrutiny of logic.

A team recently started probing at the limits of what the Bitcoin network can actually achieve. In terms of controlled experiments directly scaling transaction count, on a worldwide subset of machines, and recording the results. About time someone did this, eh?

AAR, they found that with today's satoshi client, and commodity consumer hardware, the system starts bogging down at about 100 tx/s. In terms of blocksize, that would be ~33MB blocks. So we obviously have considerable headroom in the system for improvement by means of simple increase of maxblocksize. This would consume about 25% of a single core of a typical 4-core CPU, with 16 GB RAM, and an SSD, while consuming about 3 Mb/s of network BW.

But they did not stop there. Due to the fact that allocating more CPU cores to the problem did not improve performance above this (i.e., that it consumed a smaller percentage of additional cores, with no increase in throughput), they postulated that suboptimal multithreading performance might be the root of the issue. So they refactored the code to employ contemporary concurrency design techniques. After such refactoring, the performance of the system - on the same HW - was able to process 500 tx/s. This would correspond to >150 MB blocksize. I repeat - on the same, consumer-grade, hardware. Of course, this results in an increased network BW consumption of 15 Mb/s.

So we see that, despite the maturity of the satoshi client (i.e., a decade of development by Bitcoin's supposed best), there is significant low-hanging fruit in the deficiency of the software design of the satoshi client. Deficiencies having to do directly with scalability. Deficiencies that -- so far -- have not been addressed by the core developers.

Whether core has nobody that understands concurrency, or whether they just deem scalability to be a low priority, is a matter of conjecture. But the truth is that the core developers have not:
- measured and published such transaction capacity tests
- determined where the lowest bottleneck in system transaction capacity lies
- coded up a fix to remove the lowest bottleneck to system transaction capacity
- measured and published results with the fix for this lowest bottleneck to system transaction capacity

- All this in a time when system transaction capacity is the hottest issue - and has been for about two years.

On the other hand, another team has. Who was it? A collaboration of members of the teams working on Bitcoin Cash.

[gentlemand]

A team recently started probing at the limits of what the Bitcoin network can actually achieve. In terms of controlled experiments directly scaling transaction count, on a worldwide subset of machines, and recording the results. About time someone did this, eh?

Coolio. Let them roll it out and see who takes it up. I don't believe Core's grip is unassailable. In a few years they could be yesterday's men just as some early Bitcoin types are now.

[JayJuanGee]

They can always participate in other threads, those have different mods. This one is particularly special. And again, they are free to launch their own threads. He already did and it's self moderated too.

Further, I think that the vast majority of Jbreher's posts are NOT deleted... .

So fucking what that there are a few of his posts deleted from this thread here and there.  It sends him a message (from owner of thread) that he is cluttering the thread with misinformation, disinformation, distraction, irrelevance, and perhaps other descriptors showing that jbreher has been going too far...

I agree that more of our newest distracting troll-job ruphej's posts should be deleted, but likely it is just a matter of time that owner of thread gets to such deletions and perhaps mods suspend or ban such irrelevant nonsensicals.