Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cAPSLOCK]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

No you can send whatever you want... but that paper wallet is may no longer be "cold" storage.

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[cAPSLOCK]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

No you can send whatever you want... but that paper wallet is may no longer be "cold" storage.

By the way.. this is an example of why layer 2 is so important...  Takes a few hops of logic to see it though.

[d_eddie]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

No!
You can prepare a transaction with one input
and two outputs:

INPUT: your paper wallet's address
OUTPUT 1: the exchange's deposit address
OUTPUT 2: another address YOU own - either paper, hardware, or software wallet. You use this as a CHANGE output.

You sign the transaction as you prefer (I would use Electrum myself, but beware: UPDATE ELECTRUM before opening it!) The computer can (should?) be offline while you sign. Just unplug the cable, turn off wifi or whatever. Save the signed transaction. Then reboot before putting the computer back online.

After doing this, you can broadcast the transaction you saved.

[UnDerDoG81]

Thanks guys. This crypto stuff is too complicated to me :/ Even though I am in computers for over 30 years. I wanted to buy some alts as the market is down, but I am too concerned to do that. I don´t want to lose the coins with an hack or other security reasons. I don´t even know how to get my BCash or Gold lol.

I created my paper wallets back in 2013 and did not touch them ever again. Even that was a mess at that time. Buy or format your computer only to create the paper wallets. Never go online with that computer. I am scared to death daily that my coins get stolen even from the cold storage lol. I hope in the future there will be better ways.

[Biro Bob]

Seriously, I am posting this the 3rd or 4th time. Is nobody worried about whats going on in the market? Who cashes out 100 Billion in 3 days for the 3rd time in 3 weeks? Pump and dump 100 Billion?
I don´t believe in these stories posted here like "people cash out, buy christmas presents" etc. No average Joe has this huge amount of cash.

Average Joe has just found himself considerably richer this year and scared of ‘losing’ his newfound wealth as happened in 2011 and 2014. As such, you can’t blame fear for making him jittery and selling preemptively of something that may or may not happen.

Weak hands is a real disease. Sadly institutional investors and more savvy investors have mo money and mo time and are quite happy to ‘wait’ as long as it takes to ‘buy all the coins’.

My 2 Satoshis.

FWIW. I am not selling anything and will carry on using Bitcoin with its ‘too high right now’ fees for now and the future.

[bitebits]

In between all this short term bearish posts and sentiments, I will make a Bitcoin market cap prediction. Something I don't do often but I feel Bitcoin currently trades at an attractive discount:

Bitcoin today has a market cap <250 billion. Q3 2019 I expect the market cap to be >500 billion.

Please quote me for future reference.

[Elwar]

In between all this short term bearish posts and sentiments, I will make a Bitcoin market cap prediction. Something I don't do often but I feel Bitcoin currently trades at an attractive discount:

Bitcoin today has a market cap <250 billion. Q3 2019 I expect the market cap to be >500 billion.

Please quote me for future reference.

Done and done.

[jojo69]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

There is a step between having a paper wallet and sending it to the exchange.

You have to import your private key into a hot wallet before sending it to the exchange. When you send less than 10 bitcoins to the exchange, depending upon your hot wallet software, you will either get the remaining coins in a different address or it will go back to your original address (blockchain.info).

Either way, once you import your private key to a hot wallet...it's no longer secure. You need to go through the process to put it on a paper wallet again.

unless you run something like armory where you can create a transaction and sign it on a completely secure offline computing environment, then import that sig to an online box and broadcast it

[vroom]

got me a new lambo, a fittness lambo



doing something for my health so I can hodl longer  

[Arriemoller]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

There is a step between having a paper wallet and sending it to the exchange.

You have to import your private key into a hot wallet before sending it to the exchange. When you send less than 10 bitcoins to the exchange, depending upon your hot wallet software, you will either get the remaining coins in a different address or it will go back to your original address (blockchain.info).

Either way, once you import your private key to a hot wallet...it's no longer secure. You need to go through the process to put it on a paper wallet again.

unless you run something like armory where you can create a transaction and sign it on a completely secure offline computing environment, then import that sig to an online box and broadcast it

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

My recommendation would be to download the Coinomi wallet to your Android smartphone, add the coins bitcoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. Then choose bitcoin and use the sweep option from the alternatives in the upper right corner to either scan the QR code or type in the private key. You now have your bitcoins in the Coinomi wallet instead of in your paper wallet. Then you do the same with  bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. you now have an empty paper wallet (almost, there are 29 more coins to claim, but they are not yet supported by Coinomi, so save the "empty" wallet for later).
you can now use one of the two built in exchanges to convert your altcoins to bitcoin or some other altcoin  if you so wish. Then just send whatever amount you want from Coinomi to an exchange if you wish to cash out to fiat, and make a new paper wallet for the rest if you feel uncomfortable with having your coins on a phone wallet.

[UnDerDoG81]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

There is a step between having a paper wallet and sending it to the exchange.

You have to import your private key into a hot wallet before sending it to the exchange. When you send less than 10 bitcoins to the exchange, depending upon your hot wallet software, you will either get the remaining coins in a different address or it will go back to your original address (blockchain.info).

Either way, once you import your private key to a hot wallet...it's no longer secure. You need to go through the process to put it on a paper wallet again.

unless you run something like armory where you can create a transaction and sign it on a completely secure offline computing environment, then import that sig to an online box and broadcast it

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

My recommendation would be to download the Coinomi wallet to your Android smartphone, add the coins bitcoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. Then choose bitcoin and use the sweep option from the alternatives in the upper right corner to either scan the QR code or type in the private key. You now have your bitcoins in the Coinomi wallet instead of in your paper wallet. Then you do the same with  bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. you now have an empty paper wallet (almost, there are 29 more coins to claim, but they are not yet supported by Coinomi, so save the "empty" wallet for later).
you can now use one of the two built in exchanges to convert your altcoins to bitcoin or some other altcoin  if you so wish. Then just send whatever amount you want from Coinomi to an exchange if you wish to cash out to fiat, and make a new paper wallet for the rest if you feel uncomfortable with having your coins on a phone wallet.

How can we trust bitcoins worth millions to an smartphone app? I´ve read too many times that coins got stolen. I am not into this technical stuff but I bet the app could be hacked or so and all coins can get stolen?

[jojo69]

got me a new lambo, a fittness lambo



doing something for my health so I can hodl longer 

very nice...good for you!

[Arriemoller]

Well you do as you want, but I will keep my coins in my phone until the forkathon is over and then make a bunch of paper wallets for half my stash and move the other half to another Coinomi wallet. I will then use the seed from Coinomi to extract my private keys and claim all the coins that I couldn't claim in Coinomi using Bither and Bitpie instead.
Coinomi is non custodial if that makes you feel any better.
Personally I don't see how a wallet on your computer is any safer than a wallet on your phone (maybe except for a full node on an ofline computer).
It should be noted that the phone I use for crypto is only used for that and only gets started when I need to do something with my stash. On my everyday phone I have very little crypto.

[d_eddie]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

There is a step between having a paper wallet and sending it to the exchange.

You have to import your private key into a hot wallet before sending it to the exchange. When you send less than 10 bitcoins to the exchange, depending upon your hot wallet software, you will either get the remaining coins in a different address or it will go back to your original address (blockchain.info).

Either way, once you import your private key to a hot wallet...it's no longer secure. You need to go through the process to put it on a paper wallet again.

unless you run something like armory where you can create a transaction and sign it on a completely secure offline computing environment, then import that sig to an online box and broadcast it

That's why I suggested he "burns" the address completely, by sending the remains to a change address. So the security of the old key is not an issue anymore.

[Karpeles]

not FUD anymore, but outright lying

[fabiorem]

Right now BTC is holding the line pretty well, but I am getting the sense of fear and desperation in both the BTC and LTC subs. It's starting to feel a bit... impatient over there. It's a very different sentiment to that one in December. Either we've entered a new phase in crypto where one is going to need to be patient as the market caps are now much larger, or these impatient ones will be shaken out at losses at much lower prices.

I think we are in a bear market already. There's a feel of hybernation, of freezing winds.

[jojo69]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

[jojo69]

(maybe except for a full node on an ofline computer).

you can not maintain a node on an offline computer, by definition

[erre]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

There is a step between having a paper wallet and sending it to the exchange.

You have to import your private key into a hot wallet before sending it to the exchange. When you send less than 10 bitcoins to the exchange, depending upon your hot wallet software, you will either get the remaining coins in a different address or it will go back to your original address (blockchain.info).

Either way, once you import your private key to a hot wallet...it's no longer secure. You need to go through the process to put it on a paper wallet again.

unless you run something like armory where you can create a transaction and sign it on a completely secure offline computing environment, then import that sig to an online box and broadcast it

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

My recommendation would be to download the Coinomi wallet to your Android smartphone, add the coins bitcoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. Then choose bitcoin and use the sweep option from the alternatives in the upper right corner to either scan the QR code or type in the private key. You now have your bitcoins in the Coinomi wallet instead of in your paper wallet. Then you do the same with  bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. you now have an empty paper wallet (almost, there are 29 more coins to claim, but they are not yet supported by Coinomi, so save the "empty" wallet for later).
you can now use one of the two built in exchanges to convert your altcoins to bitcoin or some other altcoin  if you so wish. Then just send whatever amount you want from Coinomi to an exchange if you wish to cash out to fiat, and make a new paper wallet for the rest if you feel uncomfortable with having your coins on a phone wallet.

Coinomi/bither apps are a good simple way to cash your fork coins, just empty your wallets from btc before importing the private keys.

Here how a btc tx works:
When you send btc you are simply "crafting" a transaction and broadcasting it online.
For the crafting process you need a private key to "sign" a tx, in other world you need the proof that you are the owner of the coins you want to send, and you can do it by signing a message (the  tx itself) with your private key. You can do it offline, and later send the tx to the network (broadcast).
It's like a rubber stamp, you don't give the rubber stamp away with the document but only the ink stamp (the signature), and you can't reverse engeniering the key from the signature.

[Arriemoller]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.