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Question: What year will we achieve a new ATH?
2019 - 49 (30.6%)
2020 - 63 (39.4%)
2021 - 34 (21.3%)
2022 - 8 (5%)
2023 - 1 (0.6%)
Never - 5 (3.1%)
Total Voters: 160

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21182657 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (24 posts by 13 users deleted.)
HairyMaclairy
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April 24, 2018, 05:14:52 AM

We only have 6 days left for my poll choice to be correct, can we step on it?

My poll choice is correct.  Can we slow down?
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rolling
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April 24, 2018, 05:18:06 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

#1 Ok, here is an argument for you then. When bcash forked, the market made a choice and declared bitcoin, bitcoin when the value stayed in bitcoin and did not transfer to bcash

#2 Here is another one, bcash changed the difficulty adjustment mechanism (block #478559) before bitcoin activated segwit (block #481824) and was therefore a fork of bitcoin at that instant. Then, even if you want to say segwit is not bitcoin, bitcoin forked from itself at block #481824 and then won the fork with itself and became bitcoin

Did I dumb it down enough for you?

I mean I hate doing this because it's getting really boring and I feel like everyone here should have just understood what I was saying by now but:

#1 So it's a democratic thing? Because I can tell you some of the value did go to bcash. So the fact that more went to core is what made it "the real bitcoin"? So if 51% had gone to bcash you would have reluctantly agreed that it was the real bitcoin? Even though ver's ideas are garbage? What if bcash slowly gains more and more and gets to over 50% in the future? Does it then become "the real bitcoin". If the value bounces back and forth back and forth between 49% and 51% relative to each other does the "real bitcoin" change every day as the value changes? Even if I don't go this route and accept your reason. Even if I allow that "the market decided" why does the market get to decide? You still have to say why. You can't just declare it. It just so happens that I agree with the markets decision however If ver's garbage vision for bitcoins future had won out in market capitalization after the fork I wouldn't have accepted it as "the real bitcoin" just because it had slightly more market cap. I would be here saying that core was the real bitcoin in my opinion even though it was slightly less capitalized.

#2 If that is a real reason, than you would have to say that you would call ver's version of bitcoin "the real bitcoin" if the roles had been reversed and core forked first instead of cash forking first. Are you really prepared to stand behind that?

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

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April 24, 2018, 05:20:31 AM
Merited by Ibian (1), Last of the V8s (1)

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am not defending Ver and his trash coin. I am as adamantly opposed to BCash as anyone here. All I'm saying is that any argument that you make that one bitcoin is objectively "the real bitcoin" breaks down.

You sir, need to lay off the crack pipe

Well then make an argument for why your preferred fork is "the real bitcoin" that is not based in opinion or some sort of logical fallacy.

This is the test to determine the real Bitcoin, it's really very simple:

I run old original Bitcoin software that was released before the 2017 forks, both hard and soft.
I use that software to make a transaction.
The chain upon which that transaction is accepted is the real Bitcoin.


(A watertight definition would need to include version numbers and reference to non-contenious early hard forks)



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April 24, 2018, 05:21:20 AM

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

Jesus christ man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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April 24, 2018, 05:25:05 AM

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am starting to see the wisdom in this simple statement... fuck.. even rosewater is making a lot of sense... omg.. omg..  Cheesy Cheesy

Yeah, on a person note. Maybe everybody that doesn't like me can bite me. How'd that be?


I think that a lot of peeps like you.  Peeps don't necessarily show our like (or appreciation) in direct ways, and in some regards, it does not matter too much how much peeps like you or not.  For example, when peeps name you as an example of something to do or not to do in regards to bitcoin, then that could be considered as a form of flattery, even if they do not get it right or even if they are trying to tease you for some aspect of your seeming on line persona...

We know that if someone lose their cool and become too emotional over internet communications, then that might reflect more about that person taking internet matters too seriously.. or if you start pumping other coins in this thread or calling for BIG blocks or some other disingenuous nonsense, then that might be another story in which you actually do become meaningfully disliked or lose credibility because of your combative off-topicness, rather than just being teased about something that you may have said in an earlier posts... and give me my pants back, you fuck!!!!!!....

and really, in the end, hopefully you participate in this thread for yourself and not based on what other people might think about you here, right?

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April 24, 2018, 05:25:15 AM


On a lighter node. Screw lambos. I'm want one of these.



not sure I'd want to be in a knockdown in that

I think I will stick with monohulls
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April 24, 2018, 05:25:54 AM

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

Jesus christ man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

You're beat just stop already. You can't rewrite history to suit yourself. I understand that there are many scenarios in which bcash "could" have been declared bitcoin but those things didn't happen. We are not discussing what may or may not happen in a fork situation, we are talking about what actually happened which is bcash forked from bitcoin. End of discussion.
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April 24, 2018, 05:26:58 AM
Merited by Anon136 (1)


On a lighter node. Screw lambos. I'm want one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfgbHvuYRU


I don't like the look of catamarans. Doesn't seem like a practical boat like monohulls.

I would get something like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVudJwOeB0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwG_o0Yvm8g

Monohull or catamaran, I am with you on this one, fuck lambos. SailboatCoin is the real LamboCoin! DO YOU HEAR ME BCASH FANBOYS?

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April 24, 2018, 05:28:51 AM

This looks like its just starting. Solid rise with growing volumes. A nice solid crossover on the MACD and breakout above $9.5k would cement it imho. It's shut up and take my money at this point. Buy all the thing's. ymmv.   Cheesy

#dyor #btfd 



bitserve
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April 24, 2018, 05:33:53 AM

Nice to wake up and see we have clearly broken $9K. Wouldn't mind a bit of sideways action before the next leg up.

P.S.: Only 472BTC to $10K in Bitstamp
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April 24, 2018, 05:41:05 AM

damn, 9288

I am digging this
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April 24, 2018, 05:42:17 AM

I don't like the look of catamarans. Doesn't seem like a practical boat like monohulls.

I would get something like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVudJwOeB0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwG_o0Yvm8g

Monohull or catamaran, I am with you on this one, fuck lambos. SailboatCoin is the real LamboCoin! DO YOU HEAR ME BCASH FANBOYS?


Well first off no cat will ever be as sexy as a really beautiful monohull. I could never argue that. And yea I love monohulls too but the wife gets seasick in my little monohull and cats, apparently, drastically reduce sea sickness so I promised her that we would buy a cat next time.


not sure I'd want to be in a knockdown in that

I think I will stick with monohulls
Apparently well designed modern cats are no less safe for blue water cruising than monohulls, or if so only marginally enough so that no one really cares. Other than that they have some other big advantages. The layout is much more accommodating to extended time aboard than monohulls generally. The way you have the whole open floorplan galley and dining that transitions smoothly into the deck as one big area and more privacy between the two separated hulls. Also cats just plain move faster. And everything stays nice and level indoors, no rocking around, you can just have a regular stove, no need for a gimble. So yea plenty of love for monohulls from me, just probably wont be what I end up buying if I do buy another yacht someday.
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April 24, 2018, 05:43:28 AM

So, somebody in here mentioned the Abra app/wallet. So I got curious and downloaded it on my "try stuff out" phone, and I must say it looks promising.
If I got it right you can move your funds between crypto and fiat within the app, which makes theter unnecessary.
I'm not a trader, but there is one sure thing in bitcoin land, and that is that bitcoin goes up in December and down in January. So I'm going to move my play stash to SEK on the coming December top and move it back to BTC on the January dip, just to try it out.  
fluidjax
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April 24, 2018, 05:44:10 AM
Merited by Last of the V8s (1)

This is the test to determine the real Bitcoin, it's really very simple:

I run old original Bitcoin software that was released before the 2017 forks, both hard and soft.
I use that software to make a transaction.
The chain upon which that transaction is accepted is the real Bitcoin.


(A watertight definition would need to include version numbers and reference to non-contenious early hard forks)


Quote from: Anon136
Would old software know how to cope with segwit? I think it would consider newer blocks invalid on both forks and stop downloading them but it could probably still connect to peers on either network fork so I think you should be able to publish a transaction on either.

Also, why is your definition dependent upon which chain a transaction could be published on instead of which software could allow one to author a valid block? That seems like and equally valid way to think about it as in terms of transactions.

You can ignore segwit it is irrelevant for the purpose of this test. The old software doesnt generate segwit TX's
Old software (pre soft fork) still works on the Bitcoin chain, but not on the BCH chain.
The Bitcoin chain is backwards compatible with older Bitcoin sotfware.
The Bitcoin Cash chain is not backwards compatible.
Common sense tells you which is the real Bitcoin.

HairyMaclairy
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April 24, 2018, 05:44:18 AM

I bought the pump.

I think I may be done trading Bitcoin until late 2018.  
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April 24, 2018, 05:54:11 AM

Well then make an argument for why your preferred fork is "the real bitcoin" that is not based in opinion or some sort of logical fallacy.

What came first. Bitcoin, or Bitcoin Cash ?

Now please go and fuck off already.

Yes I did. I "fucked off". See my earlier comment where I said I'm done talking about it. I'm pissing people off and that never was my intention. Sorry.
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April 24, 2018, 05:56:12 AM

Still thinking this is complete nonsense but ...

https://bircoin.top/

We are 3% ahead of the prediction Cheesy


6.8% ahead right now. It's still a bullshit prediction. $1M at 2020? I can't be so lucky. No.
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April 24, 2018, 06:04:53 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Anon136 (1)

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

#1 Ok, here is an argument for you then. When bcash forked, the market made a choice and declared bitcoin, bitcoin when the value stayed in bitcoin and did not transfer to bcash

#2 Here is another one, bcash changed the difficulty adjustment mechanism (block #478559) before bitcoin activated segwit (block #481824) and was therefore a fork of bitcoin at that instant. Then, even if you want to say segwit is not bitcoin, bitcoin forked from itself at block #481824 and then won the fork with itself and became bitcoin

Did I dumb it down enough for you?

I mean I hate doing this because it's getting really boring and I feel like everyone here should have just understood what I was saying by now but:

#1 So it's a democratic thing? Because I can tell you some of the value did go to bcash. So the fact that more went to core is what made it "the real bitcoin"? So if 51% had gone to bcash you would have reluctantly agreed that it was the real bitcoin? Even though ver's ideas are garbage? What if bcash slowly gains more and more and gets to over 50% in the future? Does it then become "the real bitcoin". If the value bounces back and forth back and forth between 49% and 51% relative to each other does the "real bitcoin" change every day as the value changes? Even if I don't go this route and accept your reason. Even if I allow that "the market decided" why does the market get to decide? You still have to say why. You can't just declare it. It just so happens that I agree with the markets decision however If ver's garbage vision for bitcoins future had won out in market capitalization after the fork I wouldn't have accepted it as "the real bitcoin" just because it had slightly more market cap. I would be here saying that core was the real bitcoin in my opinion even though it was slightly less capitalized.

#2 If that is a real reason, than you would have to say that you would call ver's version of bitcoin "the real bitcoin" if the roles had been reversed and core forked first instead of cash forking first. Are you really prepared to stand behind that?

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

On a lighter node. Screw lambos. I'm want one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfgbHvuYRU



I think you have a valid argument, but you're arguing the wrong thing  Grin try changing the topic to defining what makes a chain "the real bitcoin" most likely you won't be able to agree on an objective definition of "the real bitcoin". If you can't define "real" you're wasting your time arguing which one is "real".

That brings me to my next point, i believe the concept of the "the real bitcoin" is subjective, i.e. my definition of ideal "real bitcoin" is most likely different from yours. For example, at this stage I tend to value long term decentralization exponentially higher above pretty much everything else, so my views align more with the core, thus for me bitcoin is the real bitcoin  Wink if i had 1 month to live with no heirs or Ver gifted me 1MM of those bcash things and i just had a concussion and was dropped on my head a dozen times as a kid and did wayyyy too many hard drugs and snorted glue and had brain damage and couldn't spell my name and (well, you get the idea) i might be yelling that bcash in the real bitcoin and try to pump it to the moon before cashing out at the fork.
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April 24, 2018, 06:05:24 AM

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

Jesus christ man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

Sure, I'll be that guy who says "Ok, I understand your line of questioning".  You want to debate hypothetically on events that did not occur and may never occur. What could usefully come of this debate? All I can see is it continues to create doubt and question in a seemingly decided market/community.  Although your questioning is very suspicious at the top of this BCH pump  Roll Eyes  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept you may have been confused for a moment and aren't a troll.

Have you been listening to Vinny?  
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April 24, 2018, 06:05:55 AM



Is it too late to post this, one of my fav cartoon memes. click for video

9277 is some relation to the 8500 area and another stage of the recovery from high of Feb and early March
You can ignore segwit it is irrelevant for the purpose of this test. The old software doesnt generate segwit TX's
Old software (pre soft fork) still works on the Bitcoin chain, but not on the BCH chain.
The Bitcoin chain is backwards compatible with older Bitcoin sotfware.



Seems fair reasoning.   This is the blockchain that proceeded with least disruption and most compatible time line.
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