Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[suchmoon]

I personally believe that there is good debt and bad debt.  Good debt is investing in some thing(s) that are likely to appreciate in value or allow you to earn more capital/value/wealth.

There are some scenarios where it makes sense to borrow for depreciating stuff as well - it becomes a sort of a rental then. A car is one example. There is no way I'd spend $25k of my own money and I really don't wanna drive a $5k clunker because my time has value too. So I "rent" it for $200 a month or so. Will not build any equity in it but I don't care, it's not an investment.

Borrowing beyond one's means - bad. Borrowing to take advantage of the horribly broken banking system - fair game.

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[JayJuanGee]

I will admit that Roger ...

There is a bit of a strange overlap with his supposed concept of wanting decentralization, but wanting to have veto power, too...

OK, I'll bite. What is this 'veto power' of which you speak?

It is a concept that Roger Ver does not want to participate unless he gets his way.  

So to you, withdrawing from participation is 'veto power'.

Whoaza, jbreher dee bcash supporting bear.   Your blind support for Roger Ver seems to be causing you to distort and twist what I said about that emotional self-absorbed nutjob, also known as Roger Ver.

Do you have such 'veto power', JJG?

What the fuck does this have to do with me?  Each of us has control to act within our circumstances to a certain degree, of course, and surely my position is much different than someone like Roger Ver, who got into bitcoin much earlier than me, and came into a much different public role in bitcoin, in large part, due to his early investing into it (I think that he might have done some leveraging too, that paid off, but however, he got in, he made a killing early on which allowed him to serve a much different role than any regular person, and along with that might also be responsibilities that he would have that a normal person might not have - context specific, of course).

Do you believe the desire to be able to remove yourself from an undesired situation is somehow aberrational?

Get the fuck out of here with your nonsense implied assertion that Roger Ver has been playing some kind of passive role... and removing himself.. he is not doing any such thing... A more accurate depiction would involve describing his continued activism in the space including engaging in an ongoing attack on bitcoin, and having these kind of emotional desires to prove himself.

- and your desire to defend him and craig wright ...

I don't have any desire to defend Roger or CSW. You seem to be conflating these personalities with BCH -- a common small blocker delusion.

Yes.. redefine all that you like, but your conduct rises to the level of defending various bcasher nutjobs, including Ver and Wright.

Sure, I correct stated untruths regarding these folk, but that is defending the truth, not the personalities themselves.

You can parse and attempt to distinguish your actions all that you like, but in the end, you are still supporting and defending the overall bullshit conduct and attack attempts of the bcasher nutjobs, and whatever other BIG blocker nutjob flavor of the months come your direction that might be helpful to your overall stupid ass, propagandistic and possibly ill informed BIG blocker narrative.

[El duderino_]

actually, to be perfectly honest, if I'da sold a coin or two at 19k,
I'd be feeling pretty gloat-ish about now...

In retrospect I ought to have unloaded the whole bucket and never looked back. So it goes

But..bbut... this is exactly what people said back in Dec 2013 when the price hit $1200. Many did unload it all then.

And they regret it now.

Some didn't. And they feel awesome right now, even after this latest downturn.

You know it's gonna happen again, and it will be even more epic.

@Torque - I agree, I would have been a millionaire if I’d cashed out at $19,xxx during the last ATH. I didn’t cash out.....
I know that we’ll see way above $20,000 in the future & I’ll be rewarded for my patience.

North of $50,000 per coin after the next halving.

Power to my fellow HODLERS

[JayJuanGee]

Isn't this the same footage where the thing blew up moments later?  

funny you mention that, I thought the same bout 2 years ago....lol
(apologies for self quote)

Of to the number of the beast

I hope thats not the Challenger....

I understand that we continue to make comparisons to earlier times, and frequently attempt to get our brains around the numbers or whether a sufficient amount of time has passed in order to permit a rocket.

In my mind, I have been  considering the possibility that this period could be kind of like the one in which BTC is stuck in the 200s for a bit over 8 months, and then when she broke out of that range, she went quickly up to $500, then returned to retest support at $300 and then got stuck in the $350 to $450 range for a bit more than 6 more months.

I recall between August 2017 and December 2017, when we quickly went up to $19k and then returned back down.    I experienced some numerological difficulties - adjusting to the quick changes.

It seems that I am still having some subconsciousness difficulties with numbers - 3 digits versus 4 digits.  A few days ago, I had a short dream of BTC prices dropping, and you know the way dreams can kind of be elusive because it seemed that I looked at prices in the $800s, and I thought shit, BTC prices are dropping pretty badly, and then I looked again and BTC prices were in the $600s.  I did a bit of a double take to absorb that I was seeing 3 digits rather than 4, and I said to myself, "oh shit", and whenever there are fast drops, there is a bit of a concern about what to do with my orders, and of course, I tend to think about being able to buy before the bounce and to attempt to time the bounce properly.  

I cannot recall if (in my dream) I got my order "in on time", but I saw that the maximum of the drop was in the mid-to-upper $400s, and then a bit later, I saw that BTC prices had returned to the $800s.  Strange on a percentage basis... yet with some mental reservations (perhaps some shell shock), I thought that surely that going down into the $400s must have been the bottom and the bounce?

[JayJuanGee]

So price wise, is this going deeper or are we out of the dark? I personally think that we will go and test prices around 3xxx, where it should bounce back up. Again, no real TA behind it, just my own prediction based on different articles and stuff.

Would like to hear what TA specialists have to say about this. And maybe throw us some graphs.

You read a bunch of articles saying that bitcoin is going down, therefore the weight of the evidence causes you to feel that there are pretty decent chances that bitcoin is going down.

That makes a lot of sense.    

[lightfoot]

There are some scenarios where it makes sense to borrow for depreciating stuff as well - it becomes a sort of a rental then. A car is one example. There is no way I'd spend $25k of my own money and I really don't wanna drive a $5k clunker because my time has value too. So I "rent" it for $200 a month or so. Will not build any equity in it but I don't care, it's not an investment.

Blah. Used car: Invest in a set of tools and the ability to read and you can get that 25k car for a few K tops. My newest car is a 2002, 2001, 95,87,86,68. Why in the name of heaven would I want a new car?

[El duderino_]

@this moment i have a very fun moment like 1-2 times a week going to the massage saloon with my girl for a 2 hours relax time ,but just during the 1 hour foot massage reading this threat is becomming a real habit ......

for the rest short break to mallorca tomorrow hoping to catch belgium @the finals there fingers crossed for this once in a liftime oppertunity to make it to the finals and maybe to take the cup

@the same time common BTC break back above 7K its time    

[Elwar]

You read a bunch of articles saying that bitcoin is going down, therefore the weight of the evidence causes you to feel that there are pretty decent chances that bitcoin is going down.

That makes a lot of sense.    

Reminds me of that gorilla who used sign language to tell humans the garbage that his handlers fed him his whole life.

[JayJuanGee]

Price dont go up, price dont go down. Market sidelined for weeks. Small volatility.

Was the honey badger finally tamed?

Consolidation is a normal phenomenon, even in bitcoin.  The honey badger remains largely the same, as it has been through bitcoin's history, and that is why we have had these kinds of from time to time seemingly dull price performance periods.

Could be a good time period to get some other things done in life, because as we know, when the honey badger begins to stir, we could experience some damage and violence, especially if you don't attempt to protect yourself for a variety of possibilities.

[JayJuanGee]

Pretty amusing when back in January some people here thought the $3k-4k moves up and down every 2-3 days was "just a correction" and completely sustainable, lol.

but not haha amusing. I kind of always knew what the shot was going to be, but my inner bull took over the chinashop. Some said that I was a dreamer. But was I really the only one?

Are you sure that you are not just reframing history?  Funny how a bit of time passage can change perspectives... dragging you out from the cupboards in your dehydrated state, was not a pretty picture, as I recall, but maybe I am the only one?   

[suchmoon]

There are some scenarios where it makes sense to borrow for depreciating stuff as well - it becomes a sort of a rental then. A car is one example. There is no way I'd spend $25k of my own money and I really don't wanna drive a $5k clunker because my time has value too. So I "rent" it for $200 a month or so. Will not build any equity in it but I don't care, it's not an investment.

Blah. Used car: Invest in a set of tools and the ability to read and you can get that 25k car for a few K tops. My newest car is a 2002, 2001, 95,87,86,68. Why in the name of heaven would I want a new car?

To each their own. I value a few extra hours in my life a little bit more than $200 a month. Plus my garage has been full of miners since 2013 and that was not a bad decision at all.

[HairyMaclairy]

However the inability of the left to champion the cause of the working class is really disappointing.  How did the right become the champion of the rural working classes. Something went badly wrong there.  

It's pretty simple really... since the 90's the Democrats were lobbied and co-opted by transnational corporations to outsource all the blue collar jobs overseas, then promote the domestic white collar work life as the only the lifestyle left in America for anyone, anywhere. It was all highbrow and condescending. They figured that this is what all Americans want and need -- it's obvious they want to model American work life after Japan. Disregarding the fact that 80% of Americans are not cut out for a desk job just to sit behind a computer all day. They really just want to work with their hands and actually get something accomplished every day. They want their work life to have meaning, purpose, and lasting legacy.

Just go to college, earn your degree, and you'll be just fine they said. Get a white collar career and earn a great salary they said. Get married, buy a nice house, put your kids through college they said. Retire wealthy, they said.

Yeah, well that's all fine and good while the American economy is going strong and consumerism is rampant (70% of GDP!).... until a financial crisis comes, and then they start outsourcing all the white collar jobs that are left in America as well. That is actually happening right now... in China, white collar jobs are booming for the exact same work that the former American desk jockeys used to do before they got downsized (translation: were too expensive to just go to meetings, do Powerpoints and push Excel spreadsheets around all day) and at a fraction of the cost.

First they gutted the lower middle class (blue collar jobs). Then they gutting the middle- middle class. Now they are gutting the upper middle class (white collar desk jobs). Soon in America there will be nothing left but a few wealthy elites at the top of all the multinational corporations (i.e., Amazon, Google, Apple, etc.), and everyone else working for them but getting paid peanuts (relative to local cost of living, insurance, long term debts, etc.) and barely scraping by.

The Democrats solution to this monster of a problem they created is apparently more govt debt, more corp debt, more handouts, more free services, and perhaps even Universal Basic Income. Socialized by more taxes on the middle class and the poor to pay for it all. It's preposterously stupid and naive to think that this will solve things in the short or long term. It's an attempt to bandaid over the problems instead of solving them. It's a snake eating its own tail.

This is a pretty serious problem and I am concerned about it.  

I am have some small involvement with a project that will put about 300 downtown white collar workers out of work by turning their day jobs into a series of automated workflows.  The components that can’t be done by computer will be done by workers in a low cost center in a regional city.  It won’t be offshored because the quality of the work product would be too low.  

From there it’s a race between developing world workers and the computers as to who will get their standards of quality high enough to subsequently replace the local workers.  But the computers are going to win.  You can see this with Foxconn dumping Chinese laborers for robots.

Automation is going to kill third world workers jobs even harder than it kills domestic jobs because, generally speaking, education standards are still lower on average in the developing world than in the West.  (Their best are as good as our best but that’s an aside).

The Democrats are right in that anyone without a decent education and the ability to be highly agile in their role is fucked.  I don’t know what the Republican solution is - locking up Hispanic children is a distraction.  Trade wars are a distraction, the 300 jobs that area going have nothing to do with China.  And that’s just one smallish  company.  The low cost Chinese workers can’t speak English so they are useless for white collar outsourcing.  

So everyone can whinge about the cost of education, but if your population isn’t educated, it’s not going to be competitive and it’s going to drag down your economy.

[lightfoot]

To each their own. I value a few extra hours in my life a little bit more than $200 a month. Plus my garage has been full of miners since 2013 and that was not a bad decision at all.

There is, as they say, that. I put my watch repair business on hold for miner repair for a few years, now I'm switching over the desks to clocks again. It's kind of weird.....

[Torque]

The Democrats are right in that anyone without a decent education and the ability to be highly agile in their role is fucked.

So everyone can whinge about the cost of education, but if your population isn’t educated, it’s not going to be competitive and it’s going to drag down your economy.

Yes, but how are young Americans going to compete for domestic jobs, when they have to get student loans for $50K-$100K @ 2-4% interest and when U.S. open borders allow immigrants (like H1B's) coming in by the tens of thousands who already speak English and got single or multiple degrees for next to nothing in their home country, all completely paid for?

Answer: They can't. They are saddled with a debt burden overhead that they have to service that the equivalent immigrant competing for the same job won't have, and they won't be able to accept a lesser salary in order to compete.

The low cost Chinese workers can’t speak English so they are useless for white collar outsourcing.  

You should do some more research. Expats who speak native English and Mandarin are being employed in China (metro cities like Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Shanghai, etc.) specifically to teach English to those educated Chinese students so they can get the outsourced white collar jobs from America.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Pretty amusing when back in January some people here thought the $3k-4k moves up and down every 2-3 days was "just a correction" and completely sustainable, lol.

but not haha amusing. I kind of always knew what the shot was going to be, but my inner bull took over the chinashop. Some said that I was a dreamer. But was I really the only one?

Are you sure that you are not just reframing history?  Funny how a bit of time passage can change perspectives... dragging you out from the cupboards in your dehydrated state, was not a pretty picture, as I recall, but maybe I am the only one?   

I was cool as can be. You must be thinking of someone else.

[Anon136]

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[lightfoot]

No kidding. This stability is boring as fuck.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bitcorn season.

[JayJuanGee]

LN capacity reached 51 BTC up from 30 last week

https://1ml.com/statistics

That is interesting Paashaas.

Seems like a kind of exponential increase in lightning network usage that is ongoing, and more than 52.4 BTC, as I type this response.

Perhaps increased confidence in the security of the lightning network, which is resulting in increasing avenues of utility for bitcoiners. 

Segwit abstainers are going to be one-step removed from such added Bitcoin utility, yet in any event all bitcoin hodlers are likely to be advantaged by such increases in BTC capacity.