Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

Now that I realize I can use lightning for shit posting, I may need to start my own node.

Someone could argue that lightning is not decentralized enough for true shitposting.

On other news, it looks like order books are betting on UP.

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[Searing]

The price of BTC is creeping up IMHO on the off chance that the SEC will approve the 'top heavy for the rich' ETF next month

https://bitcoinist.com/3-reasons-sec-bitcoin-etf-next-month/

The danger is, if that does NOT go thru...the price, again IMHO, will dump below 6k again

be cautious

brad

stfu basher!! :\ you are such a self serving person i hope you lose your shirt shorting&distorting <<<

yeah right... maybe I should cry instead of laughing?

Certainly Searing is neither a basher, a short player nor a book talker.  

He does have a tendency to dwell on the possible negative outcomes, though.  

Even in the brightest and clearest of days, searing can manage to spot a cloud or two.  

Just looking for a bit 'more' news or such on why BTC is pumping now BESIDES the usual 'hedge' of some BTC IN CASE this

SEC thingy..comes to pass in the next month. I have seen this before with other FAILED attempts at ETF's etc from SEC etc

So is there some other reason(s) of MAJOR noteworthyness to counteract what I see as the main 'weight' on this price rise of

BTC and/or pump? If so point it out....would like to see more balanced and more reasons than just this one instance...(again,

seen this before with failed SEC ETF's etc...would be MORE comfortable with more action than just this upcoming event to base

this on...)


as to the cloud or two? do you blame me...we have current society issue (see Trump and Putin) that are boggling my mind..when

I try to figure out this 'magical internet money' bitcoin on top of that .....well....always looking to cover my butt....

my current view is 'everything is a bubble' stock market/ maybe? crypto (hope acts as store of value and not) and such

therefore have been thru 5 recessions ...trying to be a 'bit' proactive here....on all aspects and hodl as much crypto as possible

but to say I'm weirded out by 'reality' and 'society' and 'current political climate' is an understatement....so just going with

'everyone is as clueless as I am...powerful or not' and staying out of debt and preparing for our next, IMHO, major recession...

as to crypto..my 'optimistic bet' (i hear gasps) are....that it will act as a store of value (like gold) and not get as messed up

as I expect my traditional investments will become....thus use BTC as my 'hedge' ...

being a bit 'pessimistic' never hurt anyone...I especially should have 'heeded' such in 2017 (groan!)

anyway, worse case I'm wrong, my ass is 'covered' stay out of debt and crypto hoard is more or less intact....best case

I over-reacted..and then will be confused on all the moon/rainbows/unicorns/fairy dust/and gnomes in my future ...

brad


brad

[gentlemand]

Just looking for a bit 'more' news or such on why BTC is pumping now BESIDES the usual 'hedge' of some BTC IN CASE this

SEC thingy..comes to pass in the next month.

Just as the Winklevoss rejection was the excuse for the alt explosion, perhaps this rejection will the excuse for the monstrous defecation that'll finally clear out the dead wood.

The least useful thing that could happen now would be an empty pump based on a doomed hope. It looks like we might get one anyway.

[JayJuanGee]

(quotes sprinkled with snippity snips)

yes i think it will fly to the moon but not with this rise, there are some sign of a giant rise and we are far from it now, so what will happen next month is an intermediate loop becoming from mini loops, it may rise to 8-9k then fall to where it starts.

if it moves steep it is suspicious for me. again alot of people hunting news for an acceptable reason to that rise but it will end just like in july and this time intermediate trend may end in below the last bottom. But for a short time you can enjoy with rise.

I fundamentally agree with this view.

I'm not sure we are due under 5k, but a steep, grim fall is ahead. We really need some capitulation to call it a night - at least in the form of vanishing volatility.

I agree with an assessment that consolidation tends to be accompanied by decreasing volatility, but in the end, we cannot ever really know how long the consolidation period is going to last and at what point the price is going to be pushed out of the consolidation range - so in that sense nothing is inevitable in bitcoin

Indeeed. Eventually, everyone here will be sure we're moving into the last big correction. When that happens, the badger might find it appropriate to go off skyrocketing without giving a single fuck.

Are you assuming that we need "one last BIG correction"?  I am suggesting that there are lots of scenarios, including a scenario in which no additional BIG corrections take place from the downside from here... and so what if there is a 20% correction after we reach $10k,  that is not the same as having any kind of assumption that we need to have a down before we can have an up..

[HairyMaclairy]

Concept only - not to scale.

[Last of the V8s]

^unrelatedly: Have fun while making those private keys secure!



https://www.etsy.com/listing/614770978/d20-twerk-o-matic-booty-dice-butt-plug (via @shinohai)

[JayJuanGee]

The price of BTC is creeping up IMHO on the off chance that the SEC will approve the 'top heavy for the rich' ETF next month

https://bitcoinist.com/3-reasons-sec-bitcoin-etf-next-month/

The danger is, if that does NOT go thru...the price, again IMHO, will dump below 6k again

be cautious

brad

stfu basher!! :\ you are such a self serving person i hope you lose your shirt shorting&distorting <<<

yeah right... maybe I should cry instead of laughing?

Certainly Searing is neither a basher, a short player nor a book talker. 

He does have a tendency to dwell on the possible negative outcomes, though. 

Even in the brightest and clearest of days, searing can manage to spot a cloud or two.   

Just looking for a bit 'more' news or such on why BTC is pumping now BESIDES the usual 'hedge' of some BTC IN CASE this

SEC thingy..comes to pass in the next month. I have seen this before with other FAILED attempts at ETF's etc from SEC etc

So is there some other reason(s) of MAJOR noteworthyness to counteract what I see as the main 'weight' on this price rise of

BTC and/or pump? If so point it out....would like to see more balanced and more reasons than just this one instance...(again,

seen this before with failed SEC ETF's etc...would be MORE comfortable with more action than just this upcoming event to base

this on...

brad

You are not new to this rodeo, either, but you are still attempting to assert that there has to be a reason for one thing or another, and in the end, there can be all kinds of reasons that merely add up to UP or DOWN... In other words, I don't think that it is fruitful to look for reasons (like mainstream media frequently does), and sure, sometimes some events are more influential than others in pushing bitcoin over the edge to go one price direction or another, but sometimes we cannot really be sure about which caused which when we add it all together.

So for example, if the bears have been attempting and attempting and attempting to eat away at BTC price support in the upper $5ks and lower $6ks, but they are just running out of coins, and they are running out of peeps to scare out of their coins... at some point, they might just have to let the price go up, because that is the direction of least resistance - however, merely because BTC prices start to go up, that does not mean that bears might not get another chance to push it down again (they might be successful and they might not).. so yeah, we can have explanations that we just have to take with a BIG ass grain of salt, anyhow... so what purpose does it serve to strive to find such explanations when they are likely fleeting and they are also likely to cause more stress than necessary, when in the end, both you and I and a few other long term BTC bulls, understand BTC well enough to know that the most likely inevitable longer term price direction is up rather than either down or sideways... so in the end,  we know not to be shaken from our coins and we that we are quite likely to be in a very decent spot down the road (while others in the mainstream are just learning about BTC, we already know about it)

[Searing]

The price of BTC is creeping up IMHO on the off chance that the SEC will approve the 'top heavy for the rich' ETF next month

https://bitcoinist.com/3-reasons-sec-bitcoin-etf-next-month/

The danger is, if that does NOT go thru...the price, again IMHO, will dump below 6k again

be cautious

brad

stfu basher!! :\ you are such a self serving person i hope you lose your shirt shorting&distorting <<<

yeah right... maybe I should cry instead of laughing?

Certainly Searing is neither a basher, a short player nor a book talker. 

He does have a tendency to dwell on the possible negative outcomes, though. 

Even in the brightest and clearest of days, searing can manage to spot a cloud or two.   

Just looking for a bit 'more' news or such on why BTC is pumping now BESIDES the usual 'hedge' of some BTC IN CASE this

SEC thingy..comes to pass in the next month. I have seen this before with other FAILED attempts at ETF's etc from SEC etc

So is there some other reason(s) of MAJOR noteworthyness to counteract what I see as the main 'weight' on this price rise of

BTC and/or pump? If so point it out....would like to see more balanced and more reasons than just this one instance...(again,

seen this before with failed SEC ETF's etc...would be MORE comfortable with more action than just this upcoming event to base

this on...

brad

You are not new to this rodeo, either, but you are still attempting to assert that there has to be a reason for one thing or another, and in the end, there can be all kinds of reasons that merely add up to UP or DOWN... In other words, I don't think that it is fruitful to look for reasons (like mainstream media frequently does), and sure, sometimes some events are more influential than others in pushing bitcoin over the edge to go one price direction or another, but sometimes we cannot really be sure about which caused which when we add it all together.

So for example, if the bears have been attempting and attempting and attempting to eat away at BTC price support in the upper $5ks and lower $6ks, but they are just running out of coins, and they are running out of peeps to scare out of their coins... at some point, they might just have to let the price go up, because that is the direction of least resistance - however, merely because BTC prices start to go up, that does not mean that bears might not get another chance to push it down again (they might be successful and they might not).. so yeah, we can have explanations that we just have to take with a BIG ass grain of salt, anyhow... so what purpose does it serve to strive to find such explanations when they are likely fleeting and they are also likely to cause more stress than necessary, when in the end, both you and I and a few other long term BTC bulls, understand BTC well enough to know that the most likely inevitable longer term price direction is up rather than either down or sideways... so in the end,  we know not to be shaken from our coins and we that we are quite likely to be in a very decent spot down the road (while others in the mainstream are just learning about BTC, we already know about it)

yeah, I agree, just in this instance..just seeing the old ETF supposed, maybe happening, and then does not happen...usual reversal

what is the reason it pops up NOW, besides my 'paranoia'?  Not seeing much, but the 'supposed' ETF angle

than again, wtf do I know...just saying, what came to mind on the current pump

I would rather this just be a coincidence and part of the general fatigue and pump back to what I think are reasonable above 10k prices

but if wishes were fishes...we'd all take a swim...

(wanders off mumbling to self..have a hard enough time with 'current' reality....add magical internet money on top of that mess and I'm

more than a bit befuddled...)

[Hueristic]

Why Schnorr signatures will help solve 2 of Bitcoin’s biggest problems today

So when trying to research this I came across this vid and I just cannot follow him with the combination of his accent and the difficulty of the material he's presenting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTsjMz3DaLshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTsjMz3DaLs

So I tried to find a primer and ran into this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTsjMz3DaLshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTsjMz3DaLs

And this is where I gave up!

I did find a few posts that gave an ELI5 on the subject so I have a pretty good idea of the reasoning and the benefits but I'd really like to see a more nuts and bolts explanation that I can follow, does anyone have a better link to a Vid for this subject for the non professional mathematician?

CNBC's explanation for the bounce   

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/bitcoin-jumps-after-report-says-blackrock-exploring-cryptocurrencies.html

"The price of bitcoin surged Monday after a report said that BlackRock has set up a working group to explore ways of taking advantage of the cryptocurrency market.....The world’s most valuable virtual currency by market value jumped more than 4 percent."

Someone needs to tell CNBC that 4% is not a surge in bitcoinland, but a common daily fluctuation.

LOL, RITE! 4% is not even a fart in this wind!

Looking forward to some quality Schnorr FUD from Jbear and crew. 

I don't know why you'd think that. I don't believe I have previously espoused an opinion on Schnorr sigs.

You basically said Schnorr signatures would do nothing to alleviate the scaling issue. That would qualify as an opinion.

P.S.: Here it is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg22571868#msg22571868

It would have a massive impact on the multisig transactions if what I read was correct as well as cutting down on the multisig spam(although I am not up on how big a problem that currently is).

25-30% efficiency improvement from Schnorr is not 'nothing', but also not earth shaking.

That is only multisig though correct?

[d_eddie]

Are you assuming that we need "one last BIG correction"? 

I'm not assuming that much, but that's what my gut tells me through... well, that's advanced SOMA stuff 

I'm glad I followed my gut by shorting. I managed to stash some away and with this little climb I'm still well in the green even with the play money I left on the table.

My final point, however, was the admission that for all we know, the badger might well not give a single fuck what we or anybody else thinks or feels.

[jojo69]

Now that I realize I can use lightning for shit posting, I may need to start my own node.

This might be the second funniest war in history.

I actually see what you did there...not bad

[Anon136]

Schnorr signatures

Imagine if you could use just one signature for all of your transaction inputs rather than one signature for each of your transaction inputs. That's all us mortals need to understand. Leave it to the gods to work out how the math behind all of that works.

[HairyMaclairy]

Yes whenever you use a wallet you may have multi-inputs and multiple signatures, you just don’t necessarily realize it. 

Besides, Schnorr is just a stepping stone to coinjoin. 

[HairyMaclairy]

Now that I realize I can use lightning for shit posting, I may need to start my own node.

This might be the second funniest war in history.

I actually see what you did there...not bad

Don’t mention the war. 

[Hueristic]

Yes whenever you use a wallet you may have multi-inputs and multiple signatures, you just don’t necessarily realize it. 

Besides, Schnorr is just a stepping stone to coinjoin. 

Linky?

[Rosewater Foundation]

Yes whenever you use a wallet you may have multi-inputs and multiple signatures, you just don’t necessarily realize it. 

Besides, Schnorr is just a stepping stone to coinjoin. 

Linky?

Here's a good repost re CoinJoin
http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/building-on-bitcoin/2018/coinjoinxt/


Nothing on Schnorr tho

[DaRude]

And if that each person wanted to make just 32 transactions to different people bcash would need 30yrs to process that. Think about that!

I have thought about that. Today, that is indeed the case. Or even maybe longer - as 32MB is the currently supported max, which is subject to miners' decisions to create blocks smaller than max.

Which is, of course, why there has been discussion within the BCH development community -- for as long as there has been a BCH -- on other orthogonal approaches to scaling.

So while true today, it will be false for some value of 'tomorrow'.

In the meantime, BCH is not suiciding itself for the sake of some illusory benefit of 'decentralization' along some axis that is entirely irrelevant.

Orthogonal? You mean like side chains! WTF that wasn't in Satoshi's white paper!!!
Wait so you're saying that different solutions might come in the future so time and resources are better spent on near term issues rather than arbitrary usages cases for the whole population! You're so cute with your flawed logic, i bet your tears will taste sweet

[HairyMaclairy]

Yes whenever you use a wallet you may have multi-inputs and multiple signatures, you just don’t necessarily realize it. 

Besides, Schnorr is just a stepping stone to coinjoin. 

Linky?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1447960.msg14644650#msg14644650

[V1lpu]

The next bull cycle is coming?

[Hueristic]

Yes whenever you use a wallet you may have multi-inputs and multiple signatures, you just don’t necessarily realize it.  

Besides, Schnorr is just a stepping stone to coinjoin.  

Linky?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1447960.msg14644650#msg14644650

Here's a good repost re CoinJoin
http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/building-on-bitcoin/2018/coinjoinxt/


Nothing on Schnorr tho

Thanks Guys, I think this is it.

Then he suggested just using Schnorr multi-signature instead of the BLS signatures. The idea is that if you have inputs with pubkeys P and P2  you can combine them and to form a P+P2 pubkey and sign with that to prove authorization with both keys.  When this had previously been discussed the fact that someone malicious could set their P2 to P3-P and then sign the aggregate with just P3 seemed to kill it.

But actually a few months ago Pieter Wuille solved this as a side effect of his key tree multi-signature work,  He suggested instead that to combine P and P2, you use P*H(P) + P2*H(P2); this doesn't inhibit signing, but it makes it impossible to create a pubkey as a linear combination of other pre-existing pubkeys. Pieter has an implementation of this as part of the Libsecp256k1 multi-signature work: https://github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1/pull/322

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1377298.msg14011669#msg14011669