Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Gab0]

Bitcoin Core Developer Joins Forces With Former Morgan Stanley Exec To Warn SEC
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2018/09/21/bitcoin-core-developer-joins-forces-with-former-morgan-stanley-exec-to-warn-sec/#338841615baf

In the letter, published late last night, bitcoin core developer Bryan Bishop, former Morgan Stanley managing director Caitlin Long, e-commerce coding pioneer Christopher Allen, founder of Ernst & Young’s blockchain team Angus Champion de Crespigny and fund manager attorney Gavin Fearey warned the SEC against certain types of enterprise adoption.

Long considered a boon to the cryptocurrency space, the letter argues that enterprise adoption could actually corrupt some of bitcoin’s inherent benefits if not properly overseen. Specifically, the letter warns against practices employed by the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), which owns the New York Stock Exchange and recently announced its intention to launch a cryptocurrency exchange of its own.

Among a number of recommendations made in the letter, Bryan Bishop, who has been contributing to bitcoin’s core code since 2014, argues that the biggest change the SEC needs to implement is to partner directly with cryptocurrency engineers to develop a new kind of regulation.

...

Specifically, the letter, dated September 19, 2018, argues that restrictions should be put in place on how Bakkt, ICE’s planned cryptocurrency exchange, might handle cryptocurrency when it launches.

In a section headed “We caution against applying rules to digital assets in ways which do not reflect their strengths,” the authors of the letter warn that the traditional financial practice of storing customer funds in a single account would undermine some of the core strengths of cryptocurrency.

Edit: Does the SEC really need to protect bitcoin? Was not the SEC supposed to protect itself from bitcoin?

Edit2: I'm sorry if this was published before.

[1713258295]

1713258295

[Hueristic]

So Bitcoin Core has a devastating bug in the code since March 2017 Also, it appears that every single shitcoin that forked off of Bitcoin core 14.0-16.3 is also going to have to patch things up. We really dodged a bullet here. Hope no other surprises are lurking in the code. 

Seems a bit ironic that we get some fairly strong negative news about fundamental weakness in bitcoin (sloppy coding), and dodging a bullet, as you put it, bones, and then subsequent to that we get a $200 plus pump.  Hopefully, this is not a bull trap, but surely I can understand forcing the closing of some shorts, and also just a whole bitcoin market dynamic in which bitcoin can go through extended periods of doing the opposite of what seems logical.

This market is completely detached from reality we are firmly in Fake News territory now.


OT: https://medium.com/@Vikebeer/it-looks-more-like-an-oligarchy-to-the-rest-of-us-d561a7d3d74d

Nice wakeup move. It might still be phony. I'm waiting for 7.5k for partial confidence. My SOMA prediction is it will deflate quickly, and we'll get the usual sideways or downward weekend.

Straight Off My Ass predictions - Almost always wrong, almost all the time!

I hear yah and feel the same. For the first time I'm considering grabbing some of that shit usdt just to try for a increase but with my luck I know this would be the time tether would pull their chew and screw. Lol

$6800 was the point I was trying to hit but browser balked on me so I didn't go for it.
Browser came back @6778.

[JayJuanGee]

So Bitcoin Core has a devastating bug in the code since March 2017 Also, it appears that every single shitcoin that forked off of Bitcoin core 14.0-16.3 is also going to have to patch things up. We really dodged a bullet here. Hope no other surprises are lurking in the code.  

Seems a bit ironic that we get some fairly strong negative news about fundamental weakness in bitcoin (sloppy coding), and dodging a bullet, as you put it, bones, and then subsequent to that we get a $200 plus pump.  Hopefully, this is not a bull trap, but surely I can understand forcing the closing of some shorts, and also just a whole bitcoin market dynamic in which bitcoin can go through extended periods of doing the opposite of what seems logical.

This market is completely detached from reality we are firmly in Fake News territory now.

That is NOT the conclusion that I would reach from that data... bitcoin seems to be as real as you can get in terms of sound money and in terms of difficulties that some of the BIGGER players in the traditional financial circles are having to wish that it could be uninvented.

My understanding is thatBTC  price gets pushed in whatever direction the whales perceives is least resistance, and frequently, actual news events are not going to make much of a difference in terms of correlating outcomes, at least not in the short term, except perhaps creating incentives for whales to push the opposite of what is expected.  

So, people come to believe the situation is bearish and they place a lot of shorts on the books, then one or more whales come in and force those shorts to close by pushing the price in the opposite direction that the majority of margin positions (in this case shorts) was expecting.  That is not fake news, but it is a combination of market momentum and some strategic placement of capital by whales in order that they can push the market in their opportunistic preferred direction (at least in the short term), and surely these manipulators are NOT always successful.. .. and sometimes they just completely lose control of the market (e.g. BTC's price direction).

So regular folks (including myself and likely you) should just be prepared for BTC price movements in either direction, and sure they would like to make you and me and other regular folks to become jaded, but if you been in bitcoin long enough, you already have a decent sense that whales can manipulate within certain limited channels and ONLY for certain periods of time, but also from time to time they are also going to lose control of the situation (at least temporarily, which can last for many months), and in these cases, with Bitcoin, the price is very likely to go up and making it more costly for the whales to get back into some kind of short term semblance of control, so many of us non-jaded folks (who have sufficiently studied the space and understand what is going on with BTC fundamentals being strong) are going to profit from our hands NOT being shook by the short term playing around of whales.   

The situation is not fake news.  It's real.

[Hueristic]

That is NOT the conclusion that I would reach from that data.

My understanding is that price gets pushed in whatever direction the whales perceives is least resistance, and frequently, actual news events are not going to make much of a difference, except perhaps create incentive for the opposite.  So, people come to believe the situation is bearish and they place a lot of shorts, then one or more whales come in and force those shorts to close by pushing the price in the opposite direction.  That is not fake news, but it is a combination of market momentum and some strategic placement of capital by whales in order that they can push the market in their opportunistic preferred direction.

Good speculation and the correct place for it. I stand by my statement there is a detachment from reality and it is just getting worse and once those EFTs are in it will be nothing but insider trading.

[JayJuanGee]

That is NOT the conclusion that I would reach from that data.

My understanding is that price gets pushed in whatever direction the whales perceives is least resistance, and frequently, actual news events are not going to make much of a difference, except perhaps create incentive for the opposite.  So, people come to believe the situation is bearish and they place a lot of shorts, then one or more whales come in and force those shorts to close by pushing the price in the opposite direction.  That is not fake news, but it is a combination of market momentum and some strategic placement of capital by whales in order that they can push the market in their opportunistic preferred direction.

Good speculation and the correct place for it. I stand by my statement there is a detachment from reality and it is just getting worse and once those EFTs are in it will be nothing but insider trading.

By the way, I was editing my above post while you were making your above response, but I would like to add here that you seem to be quite skeptical of the power of bitcoin.  

Of course, traditionally powerful folks, and especially those who have access to a lot of fiat, are going to attempt to use BTC as their playing ground for as long as they can get away with it, and so there remains a kind of war going on and regular people have not completely lost this role, and the bitcoin community has a lot of vigilence within it.  We are not just the pawns of the rich, as sometimes they would like you to believe yourself to be, and even though ETFs are going to provide more tools for the rich to play around and to manipulate bitcoin, it is also going to both cause bitcoin prices to go up quite stupendously and become a kind of Trojan horse, as some have theorized.... They let bitcoin in and then they are kind of stuck with some of its sound money features that is going to push less sound money to become more sound.

[Hueristic]

...So regular folks (including myself and likely you) should just be prepared for BTC price movements in either direction, and sure they would like to make you and me and other regular folks to become jaded, but if you been in bitcoin long enough, you already have a decent sense that whales can manipulate within certain limited channels and ONLY for certain periods of time, but also from time to time they are also going to lose control of the situation (at least temporarily, which can last for many months), and in these cases, with Bitcoin, the price is very likely to go up and making it more costly for the whales to get back into some kind of short term semblance of control, so many of us non-jaded folks (who have sufficiently studied the space and understand what is going on with BTC fundamentals being strong) are going to profit from our hands NOT being shook by the short term playing around of whales.   

The situation is not fake news.  It's real.

I hear ya, basically just creating tokens out of thin air with futures markets should not have affected my attitude as much as it has.

By the way, I was editing my above post while you were making your above response, but I would like to add here that you seem to be quite skeptical of the power of bitcoin. 

Of course, traditionally powerful folks, and especially those who have access to a lot of fiat, are going to attempt to use BTC as their playing ground for as long as they can get away with it, and so there remains a kind of war going on and regular people have not completely lost this role, and the bitcoin community has a lot of vigilence within it.  We are not just the pawns of the rich, as sometimes they would like you to believe yourself to be, and even though ETFs are going to provide more tools for the rich to play around and to manipulate bitcoin, it is also going to both cause bitcoin prices to go up quite stupendously and become a kind of Trojan horse, as some have theorized.... They let bitcoin in and then they are kind of stuck with some of its sound money features that is going to push less sound money to become more sound.

I like your optimism, Thanks for that.

[jbreher]

Yeah. What cracks me up is how all y'all jumped down the throats of BCH developers for having a core dev discover a bug in a single (of several) Bitcoin Cash implementation, which was also never exploited.

Shoe's on the other door now. #justsayin

What are you talking about?  Apparently this is a several years long issue that has ramifications on any forks of bitcoin too.  So, it remains a bit unclear about your supposed "gotcha."  

So, I don't know where you get off in some high and mighty righteous in any kind of found bug conversation.

It's not meant to be a gotcha, it is meant to be an observation upon double standards.

[eddie13]

whales

Whales = the composite operator

Wyckoff, “The market is made by the mind of man, and all the fluctuations of the market and all the various stocks should be studied as if they were the result of one man’s operations. Let us call him the Composite Operator, who, in theory, sits behind the scenes and plays a stock to his advantage."

we should consider all market activity as a purposeful operation in which informed interests exert continuing control over stocks and the market. These large interests, such as banks, mutual funds, investment trusts, hedge funds, specialists, and position traders are best thought of as a Composite Operator.

Wyckoff, “imagine a super investor. How would that person handle the situation that is before you? What would that person look like? How would that person feel? What state of mind would your superior investor be in to deal with the situation confronting you?"

http://www.financial-spread-betting.com/trading/composite-operator.html

Wyckoff felt that an experienced judge of the market should regard the whole story that appears on the tape as though it were the expression of a single mind. He felt that it was an important psychological and tactical advantage to stay in harmony with this omnipotent player. By striving to follow his footsteps, Wyckoff felt we are better prepared to grow our portfolios and net-worth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wyckoff

I often like to think of it is the entire market is out to get me. Me against one entity, the composite operator..
I think about it as if I were the composite operator, how would I try to trick me out of my satoshis on the exchange, with bull traps, bear traps, fake walls, fake volume etc.
What would I do to trick the little guy out of his money?

Like 4D chess..

[Elwar]

Guys why is the price so low?


Still under $10k.

 

[HairyMaclairy]

Guys why is the price so low?


Still under $10k.

 

Because the halvening is still 19 months away and we have had our blow off top for this round

[HairyMaclairy]

[windjc]

Bitcoin Core Developer Joins Forces With Former Morgan Stanley Exec To Warn SEC
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2018/09/21/bitcoin-core-developer-joins-forces-with-former-morgan-stanley-exec-to-warn-sec/#338841615baf

In the letter, published late last night, bitcoin core developer Bryan Bishop, former Morgan Stanley managing director Caitlin Long, e-commerce coding pioneer Christopher Allen, founder of Ernst & Young’s blockchain team Angus Champion de Crespigny and fund manager attorney Gavin Fearey warned the SEC against certain types of enterprise adoption.

Long considered a boon to the cryptocurrency space, the letter argues that enterprise adoption could actually corrupt some of bitcoin’s inherent benefits if not properly overseen. Specifically, the letter warns against practices employed by the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), which owns the New York Stock Exchange and recently announced its intention to launch a cryptocurrency exchange of its own.

Among a number of recommendations made in the letter, Bryan Bishop, who has been contributing to bitcoin’s core code since 2014, argues that the biggest change the SEC needs to implement is to partner directly with cryptocurrency engineers to develop a new kind of regulation.

...

Specifically, the letter, dated September 19, 2018, argues that restrictions should be put in place on how Bakkt, ICE’s planned cryptocurrency exchange, might handle cryptocurrency when it launches.

In a section headed “We caution against applying rules to digital assets in ways which do not reflect their strengths,” the authors of the letter warn that the traditional financial practice of storing customer funds in a single account would undermine some of the core strengths of cryptocurrency.

Edit: Does the SEC really need to protect bitcoin? Was not the SEC supposed to protect itself from bitcoin?

Edit2: I'm sorry if this was published before.

I know they have good intentions with that letter but the SEC doesn’t oversee ICE and the SEC is not going to take the time to learn all that stuff.

[Elwar]

So...higher number is less fear?

[HairyMaclairy]

So...higher number is less fear?

Yes.  And should be considered as a contrary indicator.  Buy when fearful, sell when greedy. 

[Elwar]

So...higher number is less fear?

Yes.  And should be considered as a contrary indicator.  Buy when fearful, sell when greedy. 

I'm fearful of such a low bitcoin price because I'm greedy.

[JayJuanGee]

Yeah. What cracks me up is how all y'all jumped down the throats of BCH developers for having a core dev discover a bug in a single (of several) Bitcoin Cash implementation, which was also never exploited.

Shoe's on the other door now. #justsayin

What are you talking about?  Apparently this is a several years long issue that has ramifications on any forks of bitcoin too.  So, it remains a bit unclear about your supposed "gotcha."  

So, I don't know where you get off in some high and mighty righteous in any kind of found bug conversation.

It's not meant to be a gotcha, it is meant to be an observation upon double standards.

Yeah, but even if you are making a double standards assertion against bitcoiners, you are making that on kinds of strawman created implications as the ones that I already pointed out in my earlier post , and even HairyBeary posted an additional point with his question about whether a bcash developer had spotted the bug and informed the core developers of such.  Of course, you could not answer because so far the spotter of the bug has been anonymous.   

In the end, there had been commentary within the crypto community that bcashers had been attempting to make some kind of BIG deal out of this whole situation, when the reality is that the bug had the potential to cause a lot worse damage that would have had ramifications far beyond bitcoin. 

Furthermore, no one has been proclaiming that bitcoin is perfect, and there remain certain kinds of vulnerabilities including the narrowly dodged bullet of this latest bug find.  So, even though bitcoin might continue to have some if it's problems, it still seems quite fair to attempt to bash bcash in any way reasonably (and perhaps even unreasonably) possible because 1) there is more centralization in that smaller project, 2) they are largely engaging in a kind of fraud through various kinds of attempts to mislead people into thinking that they are the real bitcoin, 3) they seem to have a lot higher incompetency largely based on seemingly bitcoin rejects going over to that project and 4) there are probably a few more decent justifications that I am not thinking about at the moment based on my preference just to ignore the whole project except for the fact that they continue to exist like a zombie attack vector that won't go away including having peeps like you continuing to spew out the various nonsense talking points in order to attempt to keep frankenstein alive.

[JayJuanGee]

whales

Whales = the composite operator

Wyckoff, “The market is made by the mind of man, and all the fluctuations of the market and all the various stocks should be studied as if they were the result of one man’s operations. Let us call him the Composite Operator, who, in theory, sits behind the scenes and plays a stock to his advantage."

we should consider all market activity as a purposeful operation in which informed interests exert continuing control over stocks and the market. These large interests, such as banks, mutual funds, investment trusts, hedge funds, specialists, and position traders are best thought of as a Composite Operator.

Wyckoff, “imagine a super investor. How would that person handle the situation that is before you? What would that person look like? How would that person feel? What state of mind would your superior investor be in to deal with the situation confronting you?"

http://www.financial-spread-betting.com/trading/composite-operator.html

Wyckoff felt that an experienced judge of the market should regard the whole story that appears on the tape as though it were the expression of a single mind. He felt that it was an important psychological and tactical advantage to stay in harmony with this omnipotent player. By striving to follow his footsteps, Wyckoff felt we are better prepared to grow our portfolios and net-worth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wyckoff

I often like to think of it is the entire market is out to get me. Me against one entity, the composite operator..

I think that view of the market is too simplified, because I think that there are still a lot of free market principles at play, and perhaps bitcoin is going to bring some dynamics to the markets that have not been experienced before, with the introduction of a lot more laypersons into trading with a lot more access than they have previously had, and also bitcoin seems to be differentiable from any other asset previously in existence with the degree of the underlying soundness of the underlying asset, and so there is a considerable value in attempting to directly own it rather than some of the manipulation that might be attempted through exchanges and other financialization products that might attempt to represent the underlying asset while NOT being as valuable as the underlying asset.  So, even though I make proclamations of manipulation, I still believe that there is likely both differentiations from traditional markets, and likely a continuation to be differentiated from traditional markets. 

It is yet to be seen whether bitcoin is going to continue to be able to differentiate itself from traditional markets through tools and communities that are likely to continue to develop as the likely ongoing manipulation challenges and war continues to take place and to evolve into the future.  As individuals, we can continue to monitor these developments and decide to reallocate our position to the extent that we might believe the battle is evolving in one direction or another - yet I continue to have a decent amount of confidence in bitcoin about it's ability to continue to attract value and upgrowth inspite the likely continuation of threats from the inside and the outside, so BTC accumulation seems to continue to be a prudent strategy, and I wished I were younger to really be able to enjoy watching this play out for 100 years, but I would not have been in any kind of position to have had accumulated as decent of a stake in bitcoin in my younger years, either... so, the situation is what it is, and in that regard, each of us just has to continue to decide how to play our cards and to best position ourselves for the momentum that we believe is going to continue - even if the shorter term movements might sometimes move against us.

I think about it as if I were the composite operator, how would I try to trick me out of my satoshis on the exchange, with bull traps, bear traps, fake walls, fake volume etc.
What would I do to trick the little guy out of his money?

Like 4D chess..

That might not be a bad way to think about it; however, I don't think that regular people have enough tools to really play at the level of the players with more resources and perhaps thousands of coins on several exchanges.    So, perhaps there is a bit of David and Goliath going on, where the little guy still can win if s/he plays with a bit of strategy that anticipates some of the moves of the opponent before they come, as you seem to be suggesting.

I prefer to think of the whole situation as a river that is a bit out of control, and I am just trying to manuever around the various difficulties and take advantage of situations that seem to be part of the flow of the river, but I am not attempting to delude myself into thinking that I can control the river but just to go along with the flow rather than fighting the current.

[3x2]

So...higher number is less fear?

Yes.  And should be considered as a contrary indicator.  Buy when fearful, sell when greedy. 

It will always be not true, when you can say that it is the most greedy time?? If you are really greedy then you wont sell until you comeback too the same format as we were in 2017.

[StartupAnalyst]

When a person with money meets a person with experience, a person with experience leaves with money, and a person who has money leaves with Ripple...)

[HairyMaclairy]

So...higher number is less fear?

Yes.  And should be considered as a contrary indicator.  Buy when fearful, sell when greedy.  

It will always be not true, when you can say that it is the most greedy time?? If you are really greedy then you wont sell until you comeback too the same format as we were in 2017.

Its the relative change that matters as well.  We are currently near the top of the band and relatively greedy compared to 3 days ago, so I am short and ready to scale in further.