Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Biodom]

Perhaps, bitcoin is similar to the adaptive neural network.
It is not fully independent, of course, but there are similarities to two examples below.
Note the reflection on program simplicity as a key.
Maybe, the simplicity of bitcoin (vs ethereum) is a much larger advantage than previously thought.

Example #1
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a25686417/amoeba-math/

So the amoeba can solve an NP-hard problem faster than any of our computer algorithms. How does this happen? The Keio scientists aren’t sure, exactly.

Example#2

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/science/chess-artificial-intelligence.html

It [AlphaZero] clearly displays a breed of intellect that humans have not seen before, and that we will be mulling over for a long time to come.

https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/how-the-artificial-intelligence-program-alphazero-mastered-its-games

...the simpler its programs got—from AlphaGo to AlphaGo Zero to AlphaZero—the better they performed. “Maybe one of the principles that we’re after,” he said, in a talk in December of 2017, “is this idea that by doing less, by removing complexity from the algorithm, it enables us to become more general.” By removing the Go knowledge from their Go engine, they made a better Go engine—and, at the same time, an engine that could play shogi and chess.

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[Arriemoller]

Yeah dude, 0.04 % CO2 in our Air. Its a huuuuuuuge problem. Wow.



Atmosphere of Earth   -    Percentage

Nitrogen    N2    78.084
Oxygen    O2    20.946
Argon    Ar    0.9340
Carbon dioxide    0.04
Neon    Ne    0.001818
Helium    He    0.000524
Methane    CH4    0.000179



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

We will soon be on co2 levels that affects our cognitive abilities. It is rising quickly and we will soon all be breathing air equivalent to that in a closed room with no ventilation full of students at the end of a double class.
And that will make us all stupider.

looks like it already affected you..

If you had ever been on a submarine you would have known how infinitesimally small increases in co2 will have dramatic effects.
I'm not going to give you any links because this is common knowledge.

If you had listened in fifth grade biology you would know what C6H12O6 means.

Iban, sometimes you are just a r0ach light.

[jojo69]

2) species loss ... ok maybe this is an issue, it's subjective and depends on your feelings though. Massive extinction events have happened regularly in the Earth's past from various means. How much species diversity is exactly the right amount? do you feel like playing god to determine that? humans have cultivated huge quantities of biomass in the form of crops, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, there are probably more animals alive on the planet today than at any time in the past, let's celebrate mammalian abundance husbanded by humans! ... are they just not the "right" animals for your liking? my liking? his liking? should we all be living in teepees and hunting the roaming meager herds of buffalo in competition with wolves and large cats? Who really knows what is the right balance for number of species and quantities of each species that should be alive on earth at any particular time? It's just an excessively complicated question to believe anyone who claims to know the answer, they are just bullshitting you to gain an advantage over you somehow.

Very much the crux of the matter as I see it.  Yes, as I have consistently maintained, my preference for the complex and diverse arrangement of forms out of which human intelligence arose is largely aesthetic.

You have demonstrated yourself not to be willfully ignorant.  You must understand that your preference for a subdued planet brought wholly under the reign of humanity is also aesthetic, a selfish and misguided aesthetic in my view but there it is.

I do not demand that you share my aesthetic values, though I will resist the conversion of wildness to commodity to the end.

[Toxic2040]

jojo69 I'm going to reply because I respect your contributions, good humour and seemingly easy grasp of common sense of most complicated matters (you may have imbibed a little too much of the eco-facist Kool-aid to see the forest for the trees here though)

Just because the globalists are using a crisis to expand their power it does not necessarily follow that the crisis does not exist.
This is sloppy logic Marcus, try harder.

You've got the cart before the horse, logically speaking. In hindsight, the IPCC was set-up with the goal of creating a manufactured crisis (or hijacked), any dissenting scientists of the initial IPCC were hounded out of the organisation over the years, sometimes viciously.  More than a few of the most effective dissenters have had curiously early-age heart attack deaths, but that's hard to say if there is a 'statistical fingerprint' of foul-play afoot. Of the "97%" consensus, it takes only 1 lone voice of the remaining 3% to be correct for them all to be wrong, that's science, ask Einstein.

the more concerning threat is not climate change anyway its rising co2 levels.

ocean acidification, species loss, collapsing fisheries stocks, depleting fresh water aquifers, the list goes on

I really have to take issue with the implied idea that there is some specific lever we can throw, in this case co2, and continue on our merry way.

We need to completely rethink our relationship with our, very finite, biome and stop behaving like petulant valley girls with daddy's credit card.

let's take these one at a time;

1) ocean acidification ... this is a bogus made up term to begin with, the oceans are alkali with pH around 8.2, they are not acid, have never been acid. It's a typical scary word propaganda trick to think humans are making the oceans acid ( zero OMG!! bad humans), the correct scientific term if you were referring to a tiny change in pH from dissolved CO2 would be dealkalinization ... btw CO2 dissolving in the oceans is a major route for permanent sequestration of carbon into lime, chalk, etc deposits via calcium carbonates used structurally by invertebrates and crustaceans.

2) species loss ... ok maybe this is an issue, it's subjective and depends on your feelings though. Massive extinction events have happened regularly in the Earth's past from various means. How much species diversity is exactly the right amount? do you feel like playing god to determine that? humans have cultivated huge quantities of biomass in the form of crops, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, there are probably more animals alive on the planet today than at any time in the past, let's celebrate mammalian abundance husbanded by humans! ... are they just not the "right" animals for your liking? my liking? his liking? should we all be living in teepees and hunting the roaming meager herds of buffalo in competition with wolves and large cats? Who really knows what is the right balance for number of species and quantities of each species that should be alive on earth at any particular time? It's just an excessively complicated question to believe anyone who claims to know the answer, they are just bullshitting you to gain an advantage over you somehow.

3) collapsing fisheries stock ... yep totally agree with you here, it sucks, people are stupid and greedy and the tragedy of the commons will prevail any time you get a shared resource situation like this. I think inevitably aquaculture will alleviate this in the near to not-too-distant future. Fish-farming has come a long way fast since price of wild fish started spiking after stocks collapse, locally I've seen some great ventures in exotic fish species, delicacies that were always thought too hard to be farmed, lobster, abalone, white-bait, scallops, etc. In fact, I suggest invest, aquaculture is going to have a great profitable future and its good for our local habitat (I mean who doesn't love to go fishing for realz?)

4) depleting fresh water aquifers ... yep totally agree again. Tragedy of the commons strikes again, mix in brain-dead socialist politicians looking to milk tense local water rights situations and the resulting mess is all but inevitable. I don't know any good solutions to fresh water problems, historically they are solved by wars, reduced populations, enforced conservation (rationing), then dams. Desalination from an abundant energy discovery is a fringe possibility (fusion or etc).

Now this is better trolling...almost epic. Your arguments seem almost reasonable. But have to tell you Marcus..still not buying. Just goes to show you things are not always what they appear at first glance. ftfy.


1-  This is not a bogus term. It is describing exactly what is happening to the pH balance of the oceans not what state they are in currently.

http://www.whoi.edu/ocean-acidification/

What is Ocean Acidification?

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, when humans began burning coal in large quantities, the world’s ocean water has gradually become more acidic. Like global warming, this phenomenon, which is known as ocean acidification, is a direct consequence of increasing levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) in Earth’s atmosphere.

2- Source? or is just another "fact" your pulling out of your ass? Unless you are over 5 decades old I do not thing you have enough personal experience to draw a sound conclusion. Again..I disagree. Yes..someone(we?) have to draw a line and say this is enough. I will use a first hand experience of fishing when I was a child. The salmon that would come into the Sound and up rivers with odds names like the Cowlitz and the Nooksack seemed endless. I fantasized I could walk across their backs to the other shore without hardly getting my feet wet. I personally caught a 37lb king and was told it might be to small to keep, 40 and 50 pounders were common. Today, a 30+lb king is considered massive. This trend is found throughout our entire ecosystem as species are displaced, disrupted and outright destroyed by human activities worldwide.

3- See above

4- So you see the problem as just a political one? No matter that microscopic plastic particles are found in 94% of the fresh water tested? Ever hear of the Love canal? Again, first hand experience. A large aerospace company has a facility near a small town. They would prep aircraft parts for painting by first using a solvent. As these things happen, a huge plume of this stuff was released and it dispersed over a large portion of this town. 30 years later there is a team that does nothing but go around and test bore holes throughout the town for elevated levels of this toxin. Once I learned of this I quickly moved my family out of the area. Not before having to explain to my kids why it was a bad idea to be outside after a heavy rain or why not to splash through the mud puddles as small children are want to do.

5- Oh wait..there is no five...as you dodged the original question entirely. Rising co2 levels...
 
 

[VB1001]

How Many Full Nodes Bitcoin Online ?

bitserve for you:

gmax / frank1 online

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5080565.80

[El duderino_]

LFC enjoy the rest of the evening

Just WTF happend there

Did anfield explode or what ..... have Fun this evening

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

As for the rest, it’s 2018.  Not believeing in science is only fashionable on YouTube conspiracy channels.   There’s no scientific proof rings as hollow as the cigarette companies that still claim there is no link between cigarette smoking and lung cancer. 

you have no clue what you are talking about ... skeptical scientists have been treated like filth in the media and public forums by the eco-nazis for that long, so now they just shut up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zk7Xfyv6k4

we are living in times of crypto-authoritarian regimes when scientists live in fear of putting forward legitimate results, if you're okay with that keep parroting the party myths ... that's not a conspiracy, that's the reality of our time. Are you a weak-minded fool following the mob and their propaganda masters or are you made of stronger stuff that you will be proud to tell your grandchildren about?

Not the best way to bring a point across, but certainly very valid. This critique is precisely why I left academia. It's a commercialized shitshow increasingly void of rigour.

[bitserve]

How Many Full Nodes Bitcoin Online ?

bitserve for you:

gmax / frank1 online

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5080565.80

Thx for the info! Your thread is *very* interesting but really exhausting to properly follow and verify all assertions. Will get back to it at a later time when I can focus

[VB1001]

^
If it is so interesting and at the same time very complicated...

[VB1001]

My new Thread, Economy > Trading Discussion > List Exchanges Hacked 2011/2018

It's ready and members participating.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090869.0

Tomorrow I will update the data $/<BTC, names founders of the exchanges and how to save BTC in wallet, software, hardware, paper wallet and more.

I would like the WO's to comment on his experience in hacked exchanges.

Thanks in advance.

[infofront]

Global Warming Observer
A free service brought to you by the bitcoin community

Whenever there is a significant change in global temperature or contemporary opinion, please update this thread with a new shitpost, and a meaningless chart with some erroneous analysis is also welcome, feel free to comment on these if you have something worth contributing, ( if your post is not at all topical it will be merited )

Posting guild lines:
 Please lets keep this thread clean. ( I will be removing no off topic posts )
 Please post random comments on this thread, unless it is directly related to the last wall update (ex. The 20K ask was was NOT sold into, it was removed after being tested)

[jojo69]

lol

and here I thought it was the Jew observer thread

[d_eddie]

We've had this discussion already, haven't we.

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

Several solutions are being developed to batch the opening of multiple channels in one transaction. Some solutions are ready to deploy, some others are still in earlier stages. Some depend on Schnorr signatures, some don't. Next significant problem is channel balancing. I am not up to date on this yet.

How did bcash plan to solve the problem? With a larger highway? It's a non solution, bloating the blockchain linearly with the number*size (not the monetary amount) of transactions. This would have made it impossible to keep bitcoin alive on user-maintained full nodes.

Bald assertion devoid of supporting evidence.

As to blockchain bloat, not much evidence's needed at all. It's simple arithmetic. As to the impossiblity (or extreme unease) of keeping a full node*, it's just a tad less simple to work out the mass storage and bandwidth required. An empirical proof might be found in the statistics about bcash nodes that are active.


* Inb4: it's "a non-mining node that maintains the full, unpruned blockchain" in bigblocker's alternative lingo. The same jagon where "Satoshi's original vision" means some other coin.

[Ibian]

Yeah dude, 0.04 % CO2 in our Air. Its a huuuuuuuge problem. Wow.



Atmosphere of Earth   -    Percentage

Nitrogen    N2    78.084
Oxygen    O2    20.946
Argon    Ar    0.9340
Carbon dioxide    0.04
Neon    Ne    0.001818
Helium    He    0.000524
Methane    CH4    0.000179



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

We will soon be on co2 levels that affects our cognitive abilities. It is rising quickly and we will soon all be breathing air equivalent to that in a closed room with no ventilation full of students at the end of a double class.
And that will make us all stupider.

looks like it already affected you..

If you had ever been on a submarine you would have known how infinitesimally small increases in co2 will have dramatic effects.
I'm not going to give you any links because this is common knowledge.

If you had listened in fifth grade biology you would know what C6H12O6 means.

Iban, sometimes you are just a r0ach light.

An ad hom is not an argument.

[jbreher]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

just look at Ethereum ...

I don' know nuttin' 'bout birthin' no Ethereums. Ain't nobody gots time fo' that.

[alevlaslo]

rudeness is a sign of the opponent's rightness. Answer the question: how will you solve the problem of expensive commissions when the price of bitcoin rises?
will you pay $ 1000 for the transfer or mounth stand in line for $ 100?

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

How did bcash plan to solve the problem? With a larger highway? It's a non solution, bloating the blockchain linearly with the number*size (not the monetary amount) of transactions. This would have made it impossible to keep bitcoin alive on user-maintained full nodes.

And what about eth? It's never been a solution to that problem. It's a proprietary token, with the master doing as he pleases and considering switching to PoS just to be sure. Sod immutability and distributed ledgers.

But I guess many WO'ers have told you these things already. You're just being blind, or deaf, or both.

(Rudeness might also be a sign of weariness after reading so many mindless repetitions.)

users do not need to maintain the blockchain and it is dangerous, cold storage is recommended

decentralization does not exist nowhere, the only valuable thing is the proof of work

[Biodom]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

I know that i am not going to change your mind about this, but, still...sometimes 'whizbangery' is needed.

[Toxic2040]

Global Warming Observer
A free service brought to you by the bitcoin community

After stepping back and contemplating the inputs and outputs going on in this thread, it dawned upon me once again just how diverse the constituents of the bitcoin ecosystem are. There is no "center" or ideology that has majority over another. It seems to draw from all walks of life, political and economic variance is the norm not the exception. I think it might be bitcoins greatest strength. That we can all have such divergent philosophies and still reach consensus in a mathematically proven way is truly a gift beyond compare.


I do find it strange that this threads participation and viewership rises considerably when such off topic posts are made however...  I am sure it is just a coincidence.

[d_eddie]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

... unless you batch the operations. Which is already possible, although not yet deployed.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple fiat money suffices.

[alevlaslo]

the engine on water invented long ago, but the fuel companys always destroy such inventions, so as not to lose power https://youtu.be/Jivb7lupDNU

therefore, a million old modems 56 for them is better than one novelty, the future for a gross increase of block size