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 Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21331206 times) This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (104 posts by 20 users deleted.)
BTCMILLIONAIRE
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 March 15, 2019, 06:32:05 AMMerited by HairyMaclairy (1)

Actually you might have persuaded me that 2 + 2 doesn’t necessarily equal 4.  You might have gotten me there.

I haven’t responded because I am still thinking about it.  To your point, it’s not a topic I know a lot about.
Yes that's what I assumed, since you seem like a generally curious person.

In case you care about the intuition, imagine numbers on a circle. If you have {0,1,2,3} and align them on a circle, the next number after 3 is a 0. Now when you use the usual operations of a field (multiplication or addition) you have to stay within that set of numbers. So by adding 2 to 2 you move two to the right of 2 and end up back at 0. This is also the Mathematics behind Boolean Algebras, and thus the basis of computation (where the set of numbers is just {0,1}).
It goes deeper than that if you want to know why it's not exactly just some randomly made up system and why it's natural, but that would require study of the abstract rules and the elements required to create any number system.

For people who reject the idea of "infinity" in practical reality these finite fields are far more real than "1+1=2" ones, as those are by definition infinite. This information should bring anyone to pause and ponder over reality, it sure broke many conceptions I previously had for me.

The big take-away for me was, from a philosophical point of view, that no matter how obvious something seems, as soon as you take a potentially arbitrarily small step to the side your perspective can change dramatically.

It helps me to think about "knowledge" and "truth" as a place in some abstract space. Sometimes what appears obvious may be a mountain, but once I move a step to the side I can see behind it and everything changes dramatically, despite looking from virtually the same starting point.

This I suspect, is fundamentally why humans have such widely opposing opinions on seemingly obvious topics. And it's also why I try to balance out any conversation by proposing the opposite view or other different approaches.

I don't care about convincing anyone, I'm well aware that in the majority of cases that isn't possible. But if some bystanders take away something from the interaction I feel it was worth it. And if not, then I thought about new things that I might not have otherwise.
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katrinmi
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 March 15, 2019, 06:32:06 AM

Paashaas
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 March 15, 2019, 06:34:36 AM

My crack about Calvin Ayre being CEO of BSV was a crack at Ricky Falconwings calling himself CEO of Bcash.

Inability to detect sarcasm -- even when in clear use of driving home a point -- duly noted.

Certainly BSV is sinking faster than a 737 Max.

*sigh* 'tis true. only up four bucks 'merkin since the start of February.

Wait... what!?
Seems like it's up in terms of dollars due to BTC appreciating, while being down in terms of BTC. Only took a quick glance on CMC though, so room for error here.

Coinmarketbook.cc is better than CMC.

BSV is ranked 16...
HairyMaclairy
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 March 15, 2019, 06:35:58 AM

Ok work with me here.  How do we achieve the assumption that numbers are a finite field?

Feel free to refer me to beginner level reading to save you typing it all out.
BTCMILLIONAIRE
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 March 15, 2019, 06:37:53 AM

Here comes the CNBC Signal. Short now?

https://i.imgur.com/kEY35ki.png

I like how CNBC tries to spin that a 5% gain for the year on bitcoin is an awesome reward for holding a high risk "asset" that can literally go to zero at any second from a random cryptography bug or side channel, or just completely implode naturally since it's entire valuation is based on nothing but market manipulation.
Annual returns aren't particularly interesting when it comes to investments. The expected (= "projected average") value is what matters. And in the case of Bitcoin, regardless of whether or not it crashes to zero, is strictly positive.
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KnowNoBorders.io

 March 15, 2019, 07:01:18 AM

Coinmarketbook.cc is better than CMC.

BSV is ranked 16...

Interesting site. I'm quite surprised BSV even has that much buy support.

Don't understand who would buy it or why. To be fair I feel the same way about Cardano...

PundiX is on the verge of overtaking BSV.
mindrust
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 March 15, 2019, 07:15:31 AM

It is so sad that Richard Heart ended up as an ETH/Shitcoin Shill. He used to be a very hardcore bitcoin maximalist.

He exactly knows that he is running a scam with Bitcoin Hex but he does it anyway.

Fucking scammer.

nutildah
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 March 15, 2019, 07:23:38 AM

Suddenly I'm feeling pretty bearish

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/14/another-bitcoin-bull-market-is-coming-in-2019-fundstrats-tom-lee.html

Televisions wrongest crypto talking head calls for a new bull market...

Why do they keep propping this toadstool up? He doesn't know which way his ass is facing, so why does CNBC expect anybody to believe he can forecast the price of BTC?

They seriously need a new crypto boy, one without a solidly backwards track record.
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#TheGoyimKnow

 March 15, 2019, 07:25:47 AM

It is so sad that Richard Heart ended up as an ETH/Shitcoin Shill. He used to be a very hardcore bitcoin maximalist.

It appears you geniuses have just discovered there is NO INCENTIVE for ANYONE to support a coin in which the distribution does not favor themselves, or as I've said a million times before:  digital shitcoins have no valid Schelling point while physical metals do.  You have a completely arbitrary, fly by night scheme vs the fundamental forces of nature here.  Guess who wins?  It's the equivalent of starting scientology then complaining that other people refuse to follow your stupid 'religion' and do something else.
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 March 15, 2019, 07:26:14 AMMerited by bones261 (2), vapourminer (1)

Ok work with me here.  How do we achieve the assumption that numbers are a finite field?

Feel free to refer me to beginner level reading to save you typing it all out.
As for a "beginner level" introduction, I'm not really aware of any that isn't gritty rigorous Math. And in that case any would be as good as any other I suppose, since the definitions are always the same (except for perhaps the symbols used). If you feel like digging deeper I'm sure you'll find any number of resources on Google. All my notes and books for these topics are in non-English though, so I can't recommend you any reference here. But alas.

Assumptions are created out of more or less thin air. Generally based on past experiences (I'm not sure if we can arrive at any assumption without making references to previous ones, which is a problem in and of itself). It's also not exactly that numbers "are" a finite field, they can be depending on how many you have to play with. The numbers we usually use are not a finite field, you always have a unique "+1". However.

In the case of finite fields, if you want to go from the "human experience" side you could think of it like this.

If you think that infinity exists, then there's not much reason to argue here since you can just keep adding numbers and always get a unique new one, so 1+1 will always be 2 in that world.

If you however believe that infinity can't exist in reality, then the only conclusion is that any field of numbers must be finite, because you'll eventually run out. And in that world you eventually come full circle, otherwise you can't have a number field that functions in the way we understand numbers. It is the only way to formalize our natural understanding of numbers (that I am currently aware of).

As for what fields are, here's a very brief overview that leaves out a fair deal of the gritty parts that are necessary to formalize this. But this should hopefully give somewhat of a more formal intuition that you could compare against our natural intuition.

A field can be any set of numbers that satisfies a few properties. The most important ones for the topic we're having are the existence of a set of elements (or numbers), the existence of two operations (e.g. addition and multiplication), the existence of a neutral element for each operation, and the existence of an inverse element for each operation.

Let's take {0,1} as the set of numbers. And addition and multiplication as its two operations. The operation "o" (+ or *) now has to ensure that each element has a unique inverse element. So if you take any element X , there must be another element Y such that X o Y spits out the neutral element regarding "o". For addition this is 0 (you add 0, shit happens), for multiplication it's 1 (you multiply by 1, nothing happens). If you think about it, whenever you invert a number you get its neutral, 3 * 1/3 = 1, 3 + (-3) = 0.

If these properties are violated you can somehow show that the whole natural intuition of numbers just breaks down, but I can't think of a good example on the spot. Been too long since I've done anything in this area.

In the usual fields the inverse element would just be -X for addition and 1/x for multiplication. In this finite field you can't do this, because "1/1" clearly does not exist as neither does an element called "-1".

However, with the circular arrangement you can quickly see that:

0+0 = 0
1+1 = 0

0*1 = 0
1*0 = 0
1*1 = 1

Hence, each element has an inverse regarding multiplication and addition, and our intuition still works. This way to look at it satisfies the requirements of a field. It just so happens to be finite. This curiously doesn't work for any set of numbers either, the number of elements has to be infinite, a prime, or a prime power.
If you want to get technical, then "2" in the way we normally understand it won't give you "2+2 = 0", but there is an abstract field that extends {0,1} in a way such that the elements that you could "call '2'" would satisfy 2+2 = 0. You can easily get 2+3=0 for {0,1,2,3,4} with the usual addition though (check this yourself if you'd like as an exercise).

As for 'why' this works, I doubt anybody knows. Emergent properties?

Essentially, fields are merely a formalization of the way in which we naturally came to use numbers based on our experience of reality. And the formalization naturally gives rise to both finite and infinite fields. There are also weird fields that have polynomials as their "numbers" and where "1" is suddenly a polynomial (the constant polynomial 1). But you would never expect either of these by not carefully thinking about the fundamentals, what you already know, the implications of either, or what other ways you could view what you already know in.

These weird mysteries are why I'm against quickly rushing to conclusions on any subject and prefer looking for as many explanations and vantage points as I am currently capable of. The universe has a way to always screw us when we think we "know", and to reward us with new exciting experiences if we remain open.
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 March 15, 2019, 07:42:07 AM

Thank you. I hope we, as a species, can keep moving towards having more discussions of this nature when it comes to talking to people of opposing perspectives.

It's not possible.  You already saw how overcome with joy Jew scumbag HairyMaclairy was when he posted about the stupid Jussie Smollet hoax.  He was jumping out of his chair in excitement to the idea that he could attempt to blame random white people for a hoax lynching.  These (((people))) operate solely on lies and deception, not "discussions".  "By way of deception thou shall make war" - official slogan of the Mossad.  And unironically sounds like it could be a quote from some religious text attributed to Satan, but no, it's their actual official slogan.

There is absolutely nothing to discuss with them.  Just as you could also not broker a deal with the devil, discussion is not possible with people operating in bad faith and entirely on lies and deception.  The only course of action is expelling them from your country just as nations have expelled the evil cult of Judaism over 300 times in the past.
Most people just haven't invested the time needed to be able to see things more clearly.

It took me decades to see through some of the inconsistencies in what I used to believe was "good", and I spend more time thinking about random crap than I do on other things. And even then I'm still confused on most topics.

Alas, I'm convinced if we could create structures and incentives that fostered a culture of self-awareness and self-challenge (as opposed to challenging others) the vast majority of people would turn away from polemics and radicalism (in which I include most forms of public protest).
Real solutions aren't created by fighting. Catastrophic levels of such can lead to forced re-evaluation (e.g. world wars).

But in most cases substantial change happens not on the political stage, but with scientists and entrepreneurs. The incentives are currently just simply missaligned because our schools were structured for different purposes than to achieve the greatest humanity possibly could. They were created to produce biological factory robots during the industrial revolution.
micgoossens
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BTFD, on to 15K a coin !!!!

 March 15, 2019, 07:44:37 AM

BNP paribas closing 267 Offices

2200 jobs are gonna be gone

Banks........... going to be gone
Ibian
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 March 15, 2019, 07:45:09 AM

This is the beginning of wisdom.
micgoossens
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BTFD, on to 15K a coin !!!!

 March 15, 2019, 07:49:39 AM

I didn’t follow jojo and the ignore things.....

Can’t be he ignored all of them?? Or did he?

And why?
BTCMILLIONAIRE
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 March 15, 2019, 07:54:12 AM

To get back to our past talk about my excitement for VR.

I have been planning to create a game (VR or non-VR depending on timeline) that incentivizes people to break the auto-pilot lifestyle without them even noticing, should I ever be in the position to do so. You never asked and just assumed my position though, so we got into an argument back then.

I went from being a poor person that everybody claimed would amount to nothing to a degree in Math and self-made fortune. Mostly thanks to a game with proper incentive structures. And I want to recreate the experience for future generations, if I can. Not everybody wants to sacrifice their lives for "the greater good". Especially when the world seems to be set against you. But with the right incentives people might just end up doing so while enjoying themselves.
micgoossens
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BTFD, on to 15K a coin !!!!

 March 15, 2019, 07:57:40 AM

I’m still stuck with if one ows me 1BTC and another one ows me 1BTC..... i need to receive 2BTC
Right?

Of-course i know math Goes much further and i Will keep this page and read BTCMILLIONAIRE’s post when i have a better device as my iPhone

I remember he’s Nice post on whisky so i Will read the ones on this page as well, he explaines stuff pretty good

micgoossens
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BTFD, on to 15K a coin !!!!

 March 15, 2019, 08:02:19 AM

BTCMILLIONAIRE
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 March 15, 2019, 08:02:57 AM

I’m still stuck with if one ows me 1BTC and another one ows me 1BTC..... i need to receive 2BTC
Right?

Of-course i know math Goes much further and i Will keep this page and read BTCMILLIONAIRE’s post when i have a better device as my iPhone

I remember he’s Nice post on whisky so i Will read the ones on this page as well, he explaines stuff pretty good

Thank you for the kind words!

In this case we would be living in a world where the number "2" doesn't exist. As soon as you get to the "biggest" number that exists and try to create one more, you destroy all the Bitcoins and have to start over.

This happens in reality all the time. It's why when foxes breed too much and eat all the rabbits they will die (although the Math for that doesn't need to make use of finite fields and as far as I am aware of always used differential equations to model populations).
Ibian
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 March 15, 2019, 08:10:35 AM

Mass shooting in New Zealand.  Multiple armed perps(??).  Attack on two mosques. Multiple fatalities recorded.

Obviously terrorism.   Will see if reported as such. Bangladesh cricket team arriving by bus as attack commenced but drove off.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/14/asia/christchurch-mosque-shooting-intl/

Edit:  TVNZ reporter has seen shooter’s manifesto. Is White Supremacist madness with objective of inciting a race war and conflict over Second Amendment.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-mass-shooting-christchurch-mosque-police-respond-active-shooter-situation?variant=tb_v_1

Shooting was live streamed.

This is obviously horrifying.  Possible that young children targeted.   I would ask that some of the more committed racists on this thread take the opportunity to reflect on our common humanity.  I would also ask that some of the bystanders to casual racism here take a stand against it.  And I don’t want to hear shitty stories about how you don’t like Muslims but wouldn’t shoot up a mosque.  If you encourage an atmosphere of racism, then you are part of the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack
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#TheGoyimKnow

 March 15, 2019, 08:47:15 AM

The incentives are currently just simply missaligned because our schools were structured for different purposes than to achieve the greatest humanity possibly could. They were created to produce biological factory robots during the industrial revolution.

The schools are structured the way they are because predators are inherently smarter than their prey, so if we take this one step further, one can possibly make the leap that all intelligence is essentially predatory in nature. Through nothing more than financial scams and media lies, the Jews make believe they've somehow rightfully inherited the position as 'top predator' or supreme organism of the planet, and then seek to keep any competition down that could possibly get rid of them.  Thus the intentional dumbing down of society.

Then you have complete subhuman goyim like Beto O'Rourke and Justin Trudeau willingly agreeing to be their servants for whatever scraps they can get from the table.
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