Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

$9k soon!
Observing @ $8,498
Let's break!!!
By the way, good morning 🙂

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[plasticAiredale]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/10/09/irs-issues-new-guidance-on-the-tax-treatment-of-cryptocurrency/#4f7b79d459e5

Looks like they want to treat the hardforks and airdrops now as taxable income events. Hopefully someone can explain how that isn't the case. All I need is to worry about now is keeping track of the 50 shitcoin hardforks and airdrops that get created everyday. That makes no sense so I assume I am wrong somehow.

No you're right. But you don't have to worry about it. It's rather a good news in fact, I hope it will be enforced heavily.

The idea is that you can be taxed ONLY if you sell the result of the fork. If there is a fork and you don't do anything with the coins then nothing is taxable.

How is it a good news? Well it decreases the incentive of a fork. Because tons of people won't get the new coins, knowing they will be taxed.

Hence less shitcoins and less forks.

I hope you're right but their FAQ says:

If a hard fork is followed by an airdrop and you receive new cryptocurrency, you will have taxable income in the taxable year you receive that cryptocurrency.

So what does receive mean in that sentence? Because I technically could say I have Bitcoin Gold, though I've never downloaded their wallet, nor imported my private keys into it. But I had Bitcoins in actual Bitcoin addresses at the time of the Gold fork. When do/did I "receive" the Bitcoin Gold? Do I already have them? Not until I sell them like you interpret? Do I have to backfile my 2017 taxes if I sell the fork now as income then, plus pay the capital gains? Can I argue at the time of the fork the chain had no value and thus there was no actual income?

It's all so stupid.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Bitcoin gains 3.6% as UNICEF begins accepting cryptocurrencies..


Source: https://decrypt.co/10192/bitcoin-gains-4-unicef-accepting-cryptocurrencies

They consider it a blessing to receive cryptocurrencies, this has brought a very good impact to the market.

[rolling]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/10/09/irs-issues-new-guidance-on-the-tax-treatment-of-cryptocurrency/#4f7b79d459e5

Looks like they want to treat the hardforks and airdrops now as taxable income events. Hopefully someone can explain how that isn't the case. All I need is to worry about now is keeping track of the 50 shitcoin hardforks and airdrops that get created everyday. That makes no sense so I assume I am wrong somehow.

They don't understand the difference between a fork and an airdrop so of course they screwed it up by combining them.

In either case, they treat forks like airdrops and they are clear that if it's technically possible to exercise control over the fork coins, then they are taxable on the date of creation at the market price regardless of whether you access them or not. The selling of the coins is a separate taxable event.

[rolling]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/10/09/irs-issues-new-guidance-on-the-tax-treatment-of-cryptocurrency/#4f7b79d459e5

Looks like they want to treat the hardforks and airdrops now as taxable income events. Hopefully someone can explain how that isn't the case. All I need is to worry about now is keeping track of the 50 shitcoin hardforks and airdrops that get created everyday. That makes no sense so I assume I am wrong somehow.

No you're right. But you don't have to worry about it. It's rather a good news in fact, I hope it will be enforced heavily.

The idea is that you can be taxed ONLY if you sell the result of the fork. If there is a fork and you don't do anything with the coins then nothing is taxable.

How is it a good news? Well it decreases the incentive of a fork. Because tons of people won't get the new coins, knowing they will be taxed.

Hence less shitcoins and less forks.

That isn't what it says at all.

[siggy_77]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/10/09/irs-issues-new-guidance-on-the-tax-treatment-of-cryptocurrency/#4f7b79d459e5

Looks like they want to treat the hardforks and airdrops now as taxable income events. Hopefully someone can explain how that isn't the case. All I need is to worry about now is keeping track of the 50 shitcoin hardforks and airdrops that get created everyday. That makes no sense so I assume I am wrong somehow.

No you're right. But you don't have to worry about it. It's rather a good news in fact, I hope it will be enforced heavily.

The idea is that you can be taxed ONLY if you sell the result of the fork. If there is a fork and you don't do anything with the coins then nothing is taxable.

How is it a good news? Well it decreases the incentive of a fork. Because tons of people won't get the new coins, knowing they will be taxed.

Hence less shitcoins and less forks.

So, having read the PDF, and noting that I am not a tax lawyer:

It all basically comes down to if you have control of the hard forked / airdropped coins. 

If your BTC are on an exchange, and a hard fork or airdrop occurs where the exchange credits you the new coins... then you are on the hook for the income as you have control of the new coins in your exchange account.

If your BTC are on an exchange, and a hard fork or airdrop occurs where the exchange DOES NOT credit you the new coins... then you are in the clear, you don't owe anything on the new coins.

If your BTC are in a personal wallet, and a hard fork/airdrop occurs..  If you know about it and download the "new" wallet so you can have control of the new coins, again you are on the hook.. report that income.

If your BTC are in a personal wallet, and a hard fork/airdrop occurs..  If you are unaware of it, and never download the new wallet... It will prolly come down to how understanding the IRS auditor is..  either you owe it, cuz you *could* get control if you downloaded the new wallet,  or you don't owe, cuz you obviously wouldn't download a wallet for something you were completely unaware of...

[LUCKMCFLY]

According to an Analyst, it is imperative that the price remains at $ 8,600 or more, it is a very strong resistance.


More Info: https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/10/10/why-bitcoin-price-should-retake-8600-to-maintain-bull-trend/

According to this, I think that a liquidity zone is generated there to resist any bearish blow.  

The bulls must be prepared to make this good and strategic movement.

[infofront]

My posts with the same content have also been deleted.  I am heart broken. 

The plot thickens.
Congrats on Legendary!

Let's not attract the attention of the serious-minded mods.
That's what got us rusticated last time - too many reports.

For that matter, maybe I need to start deleting more of the "Fuck You" and trolling posts. We can't have Fatman flooding the mods with reports 

[JSRAW]

~snip~

JSRAW, you are seemingly correct ....... (Edited)

(Edited) they can say, publicly to you, to butt the fuck out... hahahahahaaha

Agreed and cherry picking 



#NoHomo

[infofront]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/10/09/irs-issues-new-guidance-on-the-tax-treatment-of-cryptocurrency/#4f7b79d459e5

Looks like they want to treat the hardforks and airdrops now as taxable income events. Hopefully someone can explain how that isn't the case. All I need is to worry about now is keeping track of the 50 shitcoin hardforks and airdrops that get created everyday. That makes no sense so I assume I am wrong somehow.

No you're right. But you don't have to worry about it. It's rather a good news in fact, I hope it will be enforced heavily.

The idea is that you can be taxed ONLY if you sell the result of the fork. If there is a fork and you don't do anything with the coins then nothing is taxable.

How is it a good news? Well it decreases the incentive of a fork. Because tons of people won't get the new coins, knowing they will be taxed.

Hence less shitcoins and less forks.

That's incorrect. If you receive airdropped/forked coins, you're responsible for reporting that as income. Period.
The only loophole is that you're not responsible if you can't actually claim the coins, or have no control over them. An example of that would be if your exchange doesn't distribute the forked coins to you.

[JayJuanGee]

The BTC price is holding at a steady $8,400 range. With the release of bakkt we should be seeing 10k within a week or 2. I believe another bull run is coming. I would only sell partial bags and hold the rest long term.  Remember BTC price cannot crash if noone sells! If noone sells the price HAS to go up!

Sorry to say that... But it is completely wrong.
Miners produce. They have to pay their bills. They have to sell.

It's not a question of choice, in the BTC ecosystem there MUST be sellers. There will always be.

The only question is: is there more sellers or buyers?

I'm bearish until the end of October.

Bearish in a bull market.  Go figure.

[Fatman3001]

My posts with the same content have also been deleted.  I am heart broken. 

The plot thickens.
Congrats on Legendary!

Let's not attract the attention of the serious-minded mods.
That's what got us rusticated last time - too many reports.

For that matter, maybe I need to start deleting more of the "Fuck You" and trolling posts. We can't have Fatman flooding the mods with reports 

You're a mod, smartass. And you know that's not the case.

[xhomerx10]

For that matter, maybe I need to start deleting more of the "Fuck You" and trolling posts. We can't have Fatman flooding the mods with reports 

You're a mod, smartass. And you know that's not the case.

You think infofront is a mod? That's rich.

 He obviously doesn't care enough to read the thread before posting which is why he is consistently wrong about the thread and the members who frequent it.

[Dabs]

If your BTC are in a personal wallet, and a hard fork/airdrop occurs..  If you are unaware of it, and never download the new wallet... It will prolly come down to how understanding the IRS auditor is..  either you owe it, cuz you *could* get control if you downloaded the new wallet,  or you don't owe, cuz you obviously wouldn't download a wallet for something you were completely unaware of...

I think this makes sense. What if there was some Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Green, Bitcoin Purple, Bitcoin Silver, Bitcoin Platinum, Bitcoin Diamond, Bitcoin Whatever ...

And you never downloaded the wallet, so the fork coins actually never moved ... when they do decide to tax you, the value of the coins at today's rates should apply, otherwise you can just say, I'll pay you in the forked coins ... What is your Bitcoin Whatever address, I'll send the tax owed on it.

That would make more sense.

But then, I don't know if the IRS will interpret it that way. They can't tax you what it was worth yesterday, when you are paying them today. As any gains or losses were unrealized.

[Patel]

I have a strong feeling the Bitwise ETF is gonna be approved before Sunday

I want to believe this but I don’t think so. The SEC seem totally disinterested in anything close to approving an ETF.

I guess the above is true.....until they do approve one.

If they don't, it's gonna have to be a on a new rejection basis compared to their previous rejections, which by the looks of it, Bitwise has satisfied those concerns. Then it really is a moving goalpost. But I don't think that will happen. We already have regulated spot, regulated options/futures, and a Bitcoin ETF wouldn't be that risky anymore.

Let's see how it plays out

Well shit. It got rejected again.

[JL0]

Willy Woo on Twitter

https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1182270170322092038

Can someone explain me that please ?

[LUCKMCFLY]

Interactive information great chart, "Mayer 0.983"


Source: https://twitter.com/ChartsBtc/status/1182321677356560384

[rolling]

If your BTC are in a personal wallet, and a hard fork/airdrop occurs..  If you are unaware of it, and never download the new wallet... It will prolly come down to how understanding the IRS auditor is..  either you owe it, cuz you *could* get control if you downloaded the new wallet,  or you don't owe, cuz you obviously wouldn't download a wallet for something you were completely unaware of...

I think this makes sense. What if there was some Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Green, Bitcoin Purple, Bitcoin Silver, Bitcoin Platinum, Bitcoin Diamond, Bitcoin Whatever ...

And you never downloaded the wallet, so the fork coins actually never moved ... when they do decide to tax you, the value of the coins at today's rates should apply, otherwise you can just say, I'll pay you in the forked coins ... What is your Bitcoin Whatever address, I'll send the tax owed on it.

That would make more sense.

But then, I don't know if the IRS will interpret it that way. They can't tax you what it was worth yesterday, when you are paying them today. As any gains or losses were unrealized.

Sure they can and they will. It doesn't matter if you sell them. When you sell them, that's a separate taxable event which would probably be a loss if the value dropped since the coin was created.

If you had access to those coins and were aware of those coins, that is 100% taxable based on the value when they were created or when you had access to them, whether you accessed them or not.

In an audit, it would be hard to argue you didn't know about it or didn't have access to the coins, if they can show you as a prominent member of the bitcoin community and you had the expertise to access the coins.

Selling them today or paying the IRS has nothing to do with the gain realized when the coins were created. If you do sell them at a later date, that is another taxable event.

[xhomerx10]

Willy Woo on Twitter

https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1182270170322092038

Can someone explain me that please ?

 It's a simple ratio of Bitcoin's market cap over the daily transaction volume in USD I believe.

 edit: It's not quite as simple any more - you must also divide the result by the 90MA

[Searing]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/10/09/irs-issues-new-guidance-on-the-tax-treatment-of-cryptocurrency/#4f7b79d459e5

Looks like they want to treat the hardforks and airdrops now as taxable income events. Hopefully someone can explain how that isn't the case. All I need is to worry about now is keeping track of the 50 shitcoin hardforks and airdrops that get created everyday. That makes no sense so I assume I am wrong somehow.

No you're right. But you don't have to worry about it. It's rather a good news in fact, I hope it will be enforced heavily.

The idea is that you can be taxed ONLY if you sell the result of the fork. If there is a fork and you don't do anything with the coins then nothing is taxable.

How is it a good news? Well it decreases the incentive of a fork. Because tons of people won't get the new coins, knowing they will be taxed.

Hence less shitcoins and less forks.

That's incorrect. If you receive airdropped/forked coins, you're responsible for reporting that as income. Period.
The only loophole is that you're not responsible if you can't actually claim the coins, or have no control over them. An example of that would be if your exchange doesn't distribute the forked coins to you.

If that is true. Every Whale will dump (in the USA) rather than take a chance for another hostile fork of bitcoin and owing $50k to such or something because he did not dump.

I mean that means NO one could afford to HODL BTC in your own wallet due to malicious actors. Indeed north korea or Iran could 'fork' your coin for just that purpose. chaos.