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Question: Is this the last time we see sub-$10K?
Yes - 38 (40.9%)
No - 55 (59.1%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21533169 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (142 posts by 32 users deleted.)
jojo69
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January 04, 2020, 06:32:38 PM

well fuck

got steam working

got qt working

got armory working..yaay

all that took some learnin' to edit /etc/fstab to get the permissions right on my legacy FAT and NTFS volumes where all the data was

framerates were a bit down from the win7 build so I tried to install the amdgpu drivers...boots to blackscreen

At least I remembered about setting "nomodeset" in GRUB to recover from a bad video driver, but it looks like I am distro shopping again to find something where the drivers work right...

10 days to go
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January 04, 2020, 06:47:48 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)



how? I'm very interested in your answer, really.


And if you do use a mixer or are able to really ofuscate your coins... then comes the problem on future AML/KYC where you could have problems spending your coins.

if you have countries like Portugal or Germany (where you just have to prove you own the address more than a year) i do expect not a large problem even if you have to go with the AML/KYC procedure.

Prove of ownership more than a year in the past for a single adress with a amount of 0.001 BTC on it would be perfect for me in 2027.  Grin

Well, let's say you do your split one BTC into 1000 parts. Ok, unless you do a lot more additional movements it would be easy to see where do those BTC come from. AND if you ever use more than one to do a payment (ie: for any tx higher than 0.001) you will have to combine several and then it will be absolutely clear the common point where these addresses come from.

It's not just proof of ownership, but origin of funds... something that complicates if you do manage to really obfuscate the origin of yours. And in the case of using a mixer, you could end with coins "tainted" in some way or another.

I mean, yeah, go split some of your coins if you want.... but don't go full retard on it Tongue

i don't doubt that if you have addresses with which you will get in focus of authorities because you have an monthly income of <10k and you want to cash out an address with >500k on it. but if you are flying under the radar with small addresses you don't have to prove the origin of funds. and even if. I bought mining equipment in 2013 for what? to play SatoshiDice and lost all or either not.

When BTC goes 1mio, the tax authorities will have software that tells them exactly to which wallet an address holding coins belongs as bitserve already explained, there will be certainly no more "under the radar" by then latest. Some block explorers can do a good job on associating addresses to wallets already nowadays.
Also consider that when BTC goes to 1mio, you won't be able to cash out the smallest amount to fiat without KYC, I would consider that too.

Like bitserve I'd also strongly really recommend against such a 1000-split. Otherwise you need to go through a mixer or an exchange but these fees would kill your plan completely.

Writing from a tax paradise with regards to crypto coins it could be perceived as offensive and rude if I would say "just pay your taxes then", but it could save you some trouble and a lot of fees though I am not in your shoes and can't judge what taxes would eat away.




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January 04, 2020, 06:51:26 PM

Also consider that when BTC goes to 1mio, you won't be able to cash out the smallest amount to fiat without KYC, I would consider that too.

I don't understand this part. Explain please?

If 1 btc becomes $1m, then 0.001btc will be $1k. I am pretty sure you will be able to find someone who's going to accept that btc for physical cash.
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January 04, 2020, 07:03:16 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)

Also consider that when BTC goes to 1mio, you won't be able to cash out the smallest amount to fiat without KYC, I would consider that too.

I don't understand this part. Explain please?

If 1 btc becomes $1m, then 0.001btc will be $1k. I am pretty sure you will be able to find someone who's going to accept that btc for physical cash.

If you are referring to things like localbitcoins, then possibly you may be right. But I personally would bet that by the time BTC is 1mio we'll have all sorts of AML in every country that forbids these kind of P2P transactions, at least for amounts larger than say a few hundred USD.

In my country the amount limits for legal cash transactions will be again reduced soon, and the hawks among the legislators are up to reduce it further.
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January 04, 2020, 07:06:08 PM

Also consider that when BTC goes to 1mio, you won't be able to cash out the smallest amount to fiat without KYC, I would consider that too.

I don't understand this part. Explain please?

If 1 btc becomes $1m, then 0.001btc will be $1k. I am pretty sure you will be able to find someone who's going to accept that btc for physical cash.

If you are referring to things like localbitcoins, then possibly you may be right. But I personally would bet that by the time BTC is 1mio we'll have all sorts of AML in every country that forbids these kind of P2P transactions, at least for amounts larger than say a few hundred USD.

In my country the amount limits for legal cash transactions will be again reduced soon, and the hawks among the legislators are up to reduce it further.

Do you do KYC every time when you (assuming you are American) go to Europe for a vacation while converting your USD to EUR in exchange offices? I don't think so. (I don't know their limits though having a wild guess $1k is probably within their limits)

Why would they make a KYC law only for BTC?
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January 04, 2020, 07:10:53 PM

Well shit not sure how this is going to pan out but maybe Power ISA will do.


Quote
The summary is this: Libre and Open contributors to RISC-V have been disregarded for several years. Long before I joined the RISC-V mailing lists, it was well-known within that small and tightly-knit community that if you were not associated directly with UC Berkeley, you were basically not welcome. Caveat: if you signed the NDA-like agreement which conflicts directly with, for example, the Debian Charter and the whole purpose of libre licenses, then you got a “voice” and you got access to the closed and secretive RISC-V resources and mailing lists.
Quote
The video and 3D acceleration opcodes will be entirely in the Power ISA. We are sick and tired of the RISC-V Foundation’s intransigence and blatant mismanagement. Therefore, we will comply to the absolute minimal letter with RV64GC for the benefit of our users, backers, and sponsors who will be expecting RISC-V Compliance. However, RISC-V and the RISC-V ISA itself will no longer receive the benefit of the advancements and innovation that we have received funding and support to develop.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/libre-risc-v/m-class/updates/nlnet-grants-approved-power-isa-under-consideration

https://nlnet.nl/project/Libre-RISCV/

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January 04, 2020, 07:15:37 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1)

[...]

Writing from a tax paradise with regards to crypto coins it could be perceived as offensive and rude if I would say "just pay your taxes then", but it could save you some trouble and a lot of fees though I am not in your shoes and can't judge what taxes would eat away.

Well, if my coins are ever worth several million US dollars, I wouldn't mind paying my taxes and thus being able to spend the rest of my wealth without worrying about the tax man checking me out all the time. For example, assuming I end up holding the equivalent of $100m, I wouldn't mind at all paying even half of it ($50m) in taxes! If this means that I end up with $50m that I can freely and totally legally spend without worrying at all, I'm perfectly happy with that.

BTW, the above is purely hypothetical, I forgot my passphrase, all coins gone, now only have what's left in my Kraken account (around 1000 Doge I think)...
mindrust
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January 04, 2020, 07:22:40 PM

[...]

Writing from a tax paradise with regards to crypto coins it could be perceived as offensive and rude if I would say "just pay your taxes then", but it could save you some trouble and a lot of fees though I am not in your shoes and can't judge what taxes would eat away.

Well, if my coins are ever worth several million US dollars, I wouldn't mind paying my taxes and thus being able to spend the rest of my wealth without worrying about the tax man checking me out all the time. For example, assuming I end up holding the equivalent of $100m, I wouldn't mind at all paying even half of it ($50m) in taxes! If this means that I end up with $50m that I can freely and totally legally spend without worrying at all, I'm perfectly happy with that.

BTW, the above is purely hypothetical, I forgot my passphrase, all coins gone, now only have what's left in my Kraken account (around 1000 Doge I think)...

I haven't really made my mind about taxes (sometimes i think it is theft, sometimes I think we need to pay taxes or else everything will fall apart. Can't decide.) though I am not sure if you would be OK when you see the amount they are going to ask from you.

I'll give you a hint. They'll ask at least 1/3. Most likely half.

I am no fucking way OK with this amount. NO. Fuckin. Way. (1/3, maybe but it is still going to make me sad and angry.)
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January 04, 2020, 07:24:45 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)

Also consider that when BTC goes to 1mio, you won't be able to cash out the smallest amount to fiat without KYC, I would consider that too.

I don't understand this part. Explain please?

If 1 btc becomes $1m, then 0.001btc will be $1k. I am pretty sure you will be able to find someone who's going to accept that btc for physical cash.

If you are referring to things like localbitcoins, then possibly you may be right. But I personally would bet that by the time BTC is 1mio we'll have all sorts of AML in every country that forbids these kind of P2P transactions, at least for amounts larger than say a few hundred USD.

In my country the amount limits for legal cash transactions will be again reduced soon, and the hawks among the legislators are up to reduce it further.

Do you do KYC every time when you (assuming you are American) go to Europe for a vacation and convert your USD to EUR in exchange offices? I don't think so. (I don't know their limits though having a wild guess $1k is probably within their limits)


Can't speak for the US, I am almost-EU situated. I haven't changed moneys for abroad recently, but I am pretty sure you'll have a hard time here changing $5000 to EUR in a bank or exchange office where you are not customer (hence fully identified). And it only gets worse these days.

What is now $5000 as limit will ony go lower quickly.
Cash is evil for most of the money economy. Just think about how often the butcher can go to the baker with the $20 cash you gave him for steaks. And how often the baker can come back to the butcher to buy again steaks (or buy services from you and you spend it again at the butcher). Right, endlessly, because $20 stay $20 nobody is taking a cut of 1-5%.
Now play this in your mind with credit cards, paypal, apple pay or whatever and you'll find that after a few times going back and forth all the money is at the payment provider because the fees ate all of the $20.

How can they force us into this scheme? Buy outlawing cash transactions step by step.

I have to add, when we talk about 1 BTC = 1mio USD I expect we are talking about 5 years +. And my point was merely to take the tendency that legal amounts for cash transactions are constantly lowered into Gyrsurs risk assessment when he plans such a step.

(off to watch Oilers vs Bruins)

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January 04, 2020, 07:26:23 PM

Mainstream adoption - it’s coming!



Wolves vs Man Utd

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January 04, 2020, 07:28:37 PM

Why would they make a KYC law only for BTC?

Maybe because btc is easier to conceal or move than money in banks or other paper assets.
mindrust
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January 04, 2020, 07:32:31 PM

Why would they make a KYC law only for BTC?

Maybe because btc is easier to conceal or move than money in banks or other paper assets.

But we aren't talking about huge amounts. If somebody wants to cash out $1m worth of bitcoins in an exchange of course they would ask KYC for that. There needs to be no exception for that crap.

My point is why would they ask for KYC when someone wants to cash out $1k worth of BTC while they don't ask it when you convert your $1k to 1k€?

Doesn't make any sense.

edit: Alright, I guess the logic is here, someone can move to another country with $1m worth of coins and use different exchanges to get lots of $1k and then merge them. While they cannot do the same with FIAT. I guess...
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January 04, 2020, 07:47:13 PM

Why would they make a KYC law only for BTC?

Maybe because btc is easier to conceal or move than money in banks or other paper assets.

But we aren't talking about huge amounts. If somebody wants to cash out $1m worth of bitcoins in an exchange of course they would ask KYC for that. There needs to be no exception for that crap.

My point is why would they ask for KYC when someone wants to cash out $1k worth of BTC while they don't ask it when you convert your $1k to 1k€?

Doesn't make any sense.

The situation now is such that even if you go to a bank to exchange a single 500€ note into smaller denominations you need to be KYC'ed. Why would exchanging 500€ of BTC into FIAT be any different?

Same for exchanging $ to € in a bank.

Also any person that do manage/store lots of cash is susceptible to be investigated/questioned about the origin of all that cash. Same if it were a big stash of gold or basically any unexplained wealth. Why would BTC be any different?

Either Bitcoin fails and they won't care OR we will see way more strict KYC/AML rules enforced on it in the future. More so considering the lack of physical entity makes it much more susceptible to be "misused".

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January 04, 2020, 07:53:18 PM

very interesting discussion boys.

so act now. let your TREZOR's roast. split to 100,000 sats. fees are low.

EDIT: I will do a test the next days if it is possible with a TREZOR and with Legacy and SegWit addresses.
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January 04, 2020, 07:56:02 PM
Last edit: January 04, 2020, 08:10:46 PM by Biodom

#human activity#

I'm thinking about how to split 1 BTC for future use. if the price will go somewhere to the 1m level I will however be under the radar of large fiat tx monitoring (<10k EUR) by authorities if I have to transfer it to a marketplace.

I'm uncertain about to spilt 1 BTC to 1,000 (0.001) or 10,000 (0.0001) adresses and hold them on a TREZOR.

any thoughts on that from you guys?

EDIT: but I think split 1 BTC to 1,000 adresses (1,000 x 0.001) should be enough.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address_reuse

too much work for too little benefit, IMHO.
Remembering (or properly storing) keys to all those accounts if paper wallets?
I am not sure that Trezor can manage. It certainly chokes on an account with 1K tx and complains even about an account with 200tx.
BTW, if you make all those accounts on a single Trezor, they are all connected anyway.

Besides, I thought that you are in Germany, where there is NO capital gains taxes on crypto (and no income taxes) if held more than a year.
In US, apparently, one can ID the specific tx for a particular sale, although I am not 100% sure about it (FIFO is typically better).
IN US current long term (held more than 12mo) tax rate is 0-20% (0 for income of less than 39.4K, 15% for 39.4-434.5K and 20% on above 434.5K). Quite reasonable, I should say.
Contact CPA, not a tax advise.
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January 04, 2020, 08:02:46 PM

Why would they make a KYC law only for BTC?

why wouldn't they?
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January 04, 2020, 08:09:50 PM

BTW, if you make all those accounts on a single Trezor, they are all connected anyway.

how they are connected from the outside view? you generate 1000 addresses for 1 BTC and split it to 0.001 on every single address with WasabiWallet for example.

I will consider all costs against the hypothetical benefit in the future.
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January 04, 2020, 08:14:41 PM

BTW, if you make all those accounts on a single Trezor, they are all connected anyway.

how they are connected from the outside view? you generate 1000 addresses for 1 BTC and split it to 0.001 on every single address with WasabiWallet for example.

I will consider all costs against the hypothetical benefit in the future.

The graph https://blog.trezor.io/wallet-accounts-and-addresses-bdfa6b66b037 is indicative.
A tree. 10 accounts per wallet limit.
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January 04, 2020, 08:21:42 PM

BTW, if you make all those accounts on a single Trezor, they are all connected anyway.

how they are connected from the outside view? you generate 1000 addresses for 1 BTC and split it to 0.001 on every single address with WasabiWallet for example.

I will consider all costs against the hypothetical benefit in the future.

The graph https://blog.trezor.io/wallet-accounts-and-addresses-bdfa6b66b037 is indicative.
A tree. 10 accounts per wallet limit.

I speak about addresses not accounts. BIP032 wallets with as much key pairs you want in it and the public view onto the blockchain.
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January 04, 2020, 08:25:29 PM
Merited by Globb0 (2), Cryptotourist (1)

I liked the original too.  Smiley

Ot oh!



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