Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[PoolMinor]

I have a memory similar to that one.

I remember buying ETH @$1 picked up 275.
Felt really lucky at the time to sell them when they got up to $3 each.

[1713927930]

1713927930

[Last of the V8s]

meanwhile for balance  https://twitter.com/JohnBarrowman/status/1304530250487836672?s=20

[PoolMinor]

observing 10450 pop

painting up to 10500 for sure



EDIT:  Or not.  What the fuck do I know.

Under 12,5 until beginningish of October....I would say the 10th

[aesma]

EU developments:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/leak-eu-to-create-superbody-of-watchdogs-to-oversee-digital-currencies/

Cryptocurrency developers should produce a ‘white paper’ with all the relevant information about the issuer, the token or the trading platform “to enable potential buyers to make an informed purchase decision and understand the risks relating to the offering,” the proposal says.

National and European regulators must approve these documents before issuers can start operating.

A faceless Tor user who calls himself “Satoshi Nakamoto” will seek approval from self-entitled bureaucrats before releasing “bitcoin.pdf” and a bunch of source code, because... because.  Everybody is a bank-loving masochist with a regulatory fetish!  Confirmed by strongest science.

"Because they are tied to national currencies, supporters of ‘stablecoins’ claim they can avoid the bubble-and-burst evolution seen with Bitcoin."

Because they are tied to national currencies which are already digital, they have no fucking point...except pointless redundancy, I guess? They continue to miss the point of Bitcoin's reason for existence in the first place.

Bitcoin is bitcoin. There's no "issuer", there's no backing, it is what it is. You want some? Mine it or buy it.

The EU tentative regulation that Biodom mentioned, as I understand it, is aimed at tokens issued by corporate actors (libra is explicitly mentioned, and tether would qualify as well). My previous post simply states that I personally agree that such corporate entities should be held liable, and any failure to comply with redemption requests immediately should have civil and criminal consequences.

The last thing we need is more fractional reserve scams springing up like mushrooms everywhere.

Requests for immediate redemption of BTC only works if the individual contract with the institutional custodial entity does not exclude the ability to redeem immediately.  Some services are written in such a way that redemption is not part of the arrangement, and there continue to be a decent number of normies who use those kinds of services  (out of convenience, etc) (robinhood, GBTC and likely some other similar services).  

Of course, if anyone is getting exposure to BTC through such custodial services that do not allow immediate redemption, then surely they are more likely buying some sort of voucher rather than actual BTC.

So, in that regard, hopefully investors in BTC are mostly using custodial services that allow them to redeem their BTC at any time, and if they use other kinds of services that do not allow for immediate redemption of BTC, such usage is very limited in nature and ONLY a fraction (perhaps less than 20%) of their actual BTC exposure.

The other day I was doing some research on Google about amazon gift cards and BTC, and found something along the lines of "how to buy Bitcoin, the easiest way" as the first or second result. I click, and here is an article about how to buy BTC on eToro. Except at no point do you actually get BTC, there is no wallet, there is no withdrawal, it's just an "investment". I had thought about using such services to invest in the US stock market, although they're not really available in my country yet, but that made me realize that it's exactly the same thing with stocks, you don't hold any, it's just a pile of IOUs, total BS.

[d_eddie]

They reflect the majority of everyone's corporate workplace now: ZombieCorps.

So let's see: bankrupt zombie megacorps who are propped up by the banks and make little to no profit, begin to issue their own corporate-branded digital shit tokens in order to lock the public into their walled-garden of products and services, and also to tack on processing fees, storage fees, and other hidden fees, while behind the scenes also playing arbitrage between the various national fiat currencies and front-running them.

Am I getting close here? Bueller?

I mean, how long until Amazon issues their own private shitcoin? Or Walmartcoin?

The German finance minister Olaf Scholz reiterated today that the ministers are “firmly convinced that private-sector cryptocurrencies do not make sense” and “should be banned if necessary”.

I hate to say it, but he is 1000% correct. They do not make any sense.

I think they could make sense in some circumstances. Sending remittances via AmazonCoin or libra isn't that far from using bitcoin, conceptually. Of course the process under the hood is completely different, but it could have a similar function. Far too much stuff for central bankers to control. They would have to rely on FB or AMZN for KYC stuff (over certain limits, at least), and such big corporations have the muscle to topple the economic policies of (small?) nations. Of course they don't like the idea: it's much like bitcoin from their vantage point. No, not from yours - or mine, for that matter.

But let's assume they don't make sense in any possible way or circumstance. The would-be issuers could disagree, of course. They might have mischievous plans or whatever. So force the tokens to be tethered to a certain predetermined basket of assets or goods - specified in the white paper and hard to change. Force them to be backed by hard reserves. Force them to be redeemable on the spot, for their fair value. Make a law to specify "fair value" in such a way that the buyers of tokens have the upper hand when redeeming - no walled garden if they don't like it. Do AMZN or FB really want to risk a "token run"? Problem solved.

EDIT Trying to explain my position. I don't like the idea of bankers meeting up to "ban" anything with "token" or "digital coin" in it. The distinction between "private-sector" or "in-the-wild" cryptocurrency is too feeble and too easy to manipulate for my taste. If there are issuers, make clear laws that make them liable (and maybe harshly so: going again central banks is no small sin, after all). Once the ground rules are set and the user  is protected, let them print their tokens. They can't do any harm, but they could do a little good.

[strawbs]

It's Sunday today
which means it's time to get your
haiku heads on now

No merit prizes
from me this week (I'm all out)
but who needs prizes?

[Biodom]

Braydon Fuller, an unsung (until recently) hero/protector of bitcoin:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/researcher-kept-a-major-bitcoin-bug-secret-for-two-years-to-prevent-attacks/

Interesting opinion:
https://medium.com/in-bitcoin-we-trust/buying-bitcoin-puts-you-in-the-difficult-position-of-those-who-are-right-before-99-of-people-46d17109711b

[d_eddie]

Another Sunday
the corn is going sideways
another haiku




#haiku

[Dabs]

Some shitcoins do die. There are graveyards of old coins where even if you have the latest wallet, there are no peers to connect to, and no exchange lists them anymore (not counting yobit, for some reason dead coins live on there.)

[Biodom]

corn was ambitious,
EU says, and if it says so,
it was ambitious

#haiku

[JayJuanGee]

EU developments:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/leak-eu-to-create-superbody-of-watchdogs-to-oversee-digital-currencies/

Cryptocurrency developers should produce a ‘white paper’ with all the relevant information about the issuer, the token or the trading platform “to enable potential buyers to make an informed purchase decision and understand the risks relating to the offering,” the proposal says.

National and European regulators must approve these documents before issuers can start operating.

A faceless Tor user who calls himself “Satoshi Nakamoto” will seek approval from self-entitled bureaucrats before releasing “bitcoin.pdf” and a bunch of source code, because... because.  Everybody is a bank-loving masochist with a regulatory fetish!  Confirmed by strongest science.

"Because they are tied to national currencies, supporters of ‘stablecoins’ claim they can avoid the bubble-and-burst evolution seen with Bitcoin."

Because they are tied to national currencies which are already digital, they have no fucking point...except pointless redundancy, I guess? They continue to miss the point of Bitcoin's reason for existence in the first place.

Bitcoin is bitcoin. There's no "issuer", there's no backing, it is what it is. You want some? Mine it or buy it.

The EU tentative regulation that Biodom mentioned, as I understand it, is aimed at tokens issued by corporate actors (libra is explicitly mentioned, and tether would qualify as well). My previous post simply states that I personally agree that such corporate entities should be held liable, and any failure to comply with redemption requests immediately should have civil and criminal consequences.

The last thing we need is more fractional reserve scams springing up like mushrooms everywhere.

Requests for immediate redemption of BTC only works if the individual contract with the institutional custodial entity does not exclude the ability to redeem immediately.  Some services are written in such a way that redemption is not part of the arrangement, and there continue to be a decent number of normies who use those kinds of services  (out of convenience, etc) (robinhood, GBTC and likely some other similar services).  

Of course, if anyone is getting exposure to BTC through such custodial services that do not allow immediate redemption, then surely they are more likely buying some sort of voucher rather than actual BTC.

So, in that regard, hopefully investors in BTC are mostly using custodial services that allow them to redeem their BTC at any time, and if they use other kinds of services that do not allow for immediate redemption of BTC, such usage is very limited in nature and ONLY a fraction (perhaps less than 20%) of their actual BTC exposure.

The other day I was doing some research on Google about amazon gift cards and BTC, and found something along the lines of "how to buy Bitcoin, the easiest way" as the first or second result. I click, and here is an article about how to buy BTC on eToro. Except at no point do you actually get BTC, there is no wallet, there is no withdrawal, it's just an "investment". I had thought about using such services to invest in the US stock market, although they're not really available in my country yet, but that made me realize that it's exactly the same thing with stocks, you don't hold any, it's just a pile of IOUs, total BS.

Probably we are a bit more sensitive regarding ability to directly hold if we understand the scarcity value proposition in bitcoin that could be undermined (to some extent) with third parties that do not allow you to hold or claim the underlying asset.  It could take a long time for regular customers to figure out that particular angle of bitcoin's value proposition.

At the same time, there seems to be quite a bit of evidence that NOT too many BTC are moving around, which surely could affect the BTC market but also bring into question, from time to time, the extent that some third parties might not be holding the quantity of BTC that they claim to be holding, and sure it is possible that some of them will get rekt because they do not have the underlying asset that they claim to have - especially if the BTC price goes shooting up and they are making shit up regarding how much BTC they have...  It seems quite likely that their customers could (and maybe even would) get screwed in such a process, too.

Another Sunday
the corn is going sideways
another haiku

#haiku

Well, in essence, we are witnessing that the 12th came and went, and surely there were some moment in which $10,501 was nearly breached, but we did not quite get a supra $10.5k closing, instead we got a sub $10.5k closing...

Close but no cigar, for some of the supra $10.5k closing wisheners in the no longer current poll.   not that I am a bear wannabe nor wishing any ill-will upon any wrong poll participant.  

[nullius]

Something that V8s posted earlier incited an essay that went off into a tangent; it took on a life of its own, and...  I think that I will just leave this here for now.

USA “We Can Do It!” J. Howard Miller (1942–43)

USSR “The Liberated Woman is Building Socialism” Adolf Strakhov (1926)

(Edited repeatedly due to a bizarre forum bug that broke the table after posting, but not on preview.  Inexplicable solution:  Add an empty table cell at the beginning of the row (!).)

[Yogee]

Did bitcoin enter the Kangaroo market again? $10K seems to be its favorite playground.

[Toxic2040]

[nullius]

Well, in essence, we are witnessing that the 12th came and went, and surely there were some moment in which $10,501 was nearly breached, but we did not quite get a supra $10.5k closing, instead we got a sub $10.5k closing...

For the record, did we hit or pass $10,472 at major exchanges?

Did bitcoin enter the Kangaroo market again? $10K seems to be its favorite playground.

All things considered, it’s been in this range for a very short time.  That’s not a trend.  People who are impatient for drastic weekly swings are far too accustomed to extreme volatility.

When I said before that the $10k range was “comfortable”, I hope that neither Jay nor anybody else took that as anything but optimistic.  Cheerful, even.  Those who predicted a sudden drop to $8k, $6k, or even lower were flat wrong.  Stability above that magical $10k line is good.  Those who short are getting spanked, whilst holders enjoy a store of value that’s doing just that.  Slow and steady...  The moon is still out there.

[JayJuanGee]

Well, in essence, we are witnessing that the 12th came and went, and surely there were some moment in which $10,501 was nearly breached, but we did not quite get a supra $10.5k closing, instead we got a sub $10.5k closing...

For the record, did we hit or pass $10,472 at major exchanges?

I was kind of snidily referring to the poll that is currently at the top of this thread, and I believe that closing price was around $10,450 (which would have been the price on Bitstamp at midnight UTC).

Did bitcoin enter the Kangaroo market again? $10K seems to be its favorite playground.

All things considered, it’s been in this range for a very short time.  That’s not a trend.  People who are impatient for drastic weekly swings are far too accustomed to extreme volatility.

When I said before that the $10k range was “comfortable”, I hope that neither Jay nor anybody else took that as anything but optimistic.  Cheerful, even.  Those who predicted a sudden drop to $8k, $6k, or even lower were flat wrong.  Stability above that magical $10k line is good.  Those who short are getting spanked, whilst holders enjoy a store of value that’s doing just that.  Slow and steady...  The moon is still out there.

I doubt that too many active members of this thread are going to complain about a few bear shorts getting reckt here and there along the way... I am NOT sure if such reckening level has been met yet because the amount of price movement has been pretty low, even though in the past 30 minutes we have had some movement, including some observation of BTC price peaks around $10,577 in the past 20 minutes... that would be the highest price point since about 8 days ago.  (eg. we have not seen higher prices than that for the past 8 days)..

Direction from here?  I am not going to proclaim to have very many theories or much commitment, but I will mention that this week's candle closes in about 20 hours, and it appears that the BTC price needs to be above about $10,300 for this week's candle to close as a greenie - whether color makes much if any difference, or not.

[nullius]

For the record, did we hit or pass $10,472 at major exchanges?

I was kind of snidily referring to the poll that is currently at the top of this thread, and I believe that closing price was around $10,450 (which would have been the price on Bitstamp at midnight UTC).

Eh, I was kind of snidely gently and innocently referring to this:

Entered shorts at 10472, already locked in some profits to cover fees in case we go back to entry (where i moved my stop)

...some observation of BTC price peaks around $10,577 in the past 20 minutes...

My magic is still strong.

My magic is still strong.

Hah:  WO post #544888, topic=178336.msg55185555#msg55185555

Should have posted that essay I’ve been slowly editing.

Go, Bitcoin, go!

[jbreher]

https://blockstream.info/address/1DGwqAM8mV4aJVPidoBp9Zfz8GKhAzLkma
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ipcanh/damaged_secret_key/

I don’t use paper wallets but to only have one copy & not have it laminated?

School boy errors!

it was worth like $250  at the time, so i dont blame him for not taking that many precautions

At minimum, he should have kept maybe more than one paper copy, or saved some on USB sticks, burned to CD/DVD.

Every additional copy is an additional potential security breach.

[JayJuanGee]

For the record, did we hit or pass $10,472 at major exchanges?

I was kind of snidily referring to the poll that is currently at the top of this thread, and I believe that closing price was around $10,450 (which would have been the price on Bitstamp at midnight UTC).

Eh, I was kind of snidely gently and innocently referring to this:

Entered shorts at 10472, already locked in some profits to cover fees in case we go back to entry (where i moved my stop)

Sure, we get smarter than everyone else members posting specific price predictions and their trades, and frequently, they are notifying us about their down trades, as if they want other members to follow  or maybe to be able to come back later and demonstrate how smart they were.  Sometimes it will take a bit of time to get rid of these sorcerer wannabes, and surely sometimes they will leave more quickly after a few ridiculously wrong calls.

Swaystar had been here before, and had seemingly disappeared with his tail between his legs, but sure he comes back with some kind of hope for institutional (if we can refer to WO thread in such a way?) forgetfulness.

Hopefully, you did not invest too much with him.   

...some observation of BTC price peaks around $10,577 in the past 20 minutes...

My magic is still strong.

You are a wanna be soothsayer, too? 

My magic is still strong.

Hah:  WO post #544888, topic=178336.msg55185555#msg55185555

Should have posted that essay I’ve been slowly editing.

Go, Bitcoin, go!

You are shooting for 5s and 8s?  Torque, is that you?   

[bitebits]

Bitcoin advertising in Hong Kong:
https://twitter.com/danheld/status/1304880547118764033

Small letters disclaimer:
"Your Bitcoin are your responsibility. There will be no bailouts or quantitative easing. Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. Not suitable for money laundering."