Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Dabs]

I thought about that, but it's a lot of work, for something that can happen again in the new wallet. My cold wallet is now very securely backed up and I'll have to redo everything if I change wallets. I might do it at some point, but right now it's just too much work.

I think I'll wait for SatoshiLabs to add Coin Control to Trezor Wallet (thanks 20kevin20), and then mark all of the attack dust as "do not spend". Will see how this works out and take it from there.

It's a good idea these days to go through the exercise of setting up a new wallet once a year or two. Keeps you on your toes too. Your backup can hold another 12~24 words eh? (Or did you go through metal stamping / etching in multiple locations which makes it a lot of work?)

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[AlcoHoDL]

I thought about that, but it's a lot of work, for something that can happen again in the new wallet. My cold wallet is now very securely backed up and I'll have to redo everything if I change wallets. I might do it at some point, but right now it's just too much work.

I think I'll wait for SatoshiLabs to add Coin Control to Trezor Wallet (thanks 20kevin20), and then mark all of the attack dust as "do not spend". Will see how this works out and take it from there.

It's a good idea these days to go through the exercise of setting up a new wallet once a year or two. Keeps you on your toes too. Your backup can hold another 12~24 words eh? (Or did you go through metal stamping / etching in multiple locations which makes it a lot of work?)

Not metal, laminated paper, but something like that, yes.

I see your point and I agree, just can't be bothered right now. Maybe when we hit $100k. Oh wait, that's this year, right?

[Richy_T]

Could be an attempt of your gov to identify you, or for a bad actor to link your addresses together. If the attacker sends you 544 sats to an address of yours containing 1 BTC and you include another input of 9 BTC in the tx, whoever sends you the dust now finds out you don't only have 1 BTC in your wallet but 10. It's easier to trace this once you send the dust yourself and start from there.

I don't really see how this gains you any benefit over just regular blockchain analysis.

[Richy_T]

I think I'll wait for SatoshiLabs to add Coin Control to Trezor Wallet (thanks 20kevin20), and then mark all of the attack dust as "do not spend". Will see how this works out and take it from there.

Any decent wallet will not try to spend dust that costs more to send than it's worth. I'm not sure if this would be under the limit or not.

[hisslyness]

Was reading an article that estimated the top 1% of the worlds population own roughly 44.8% of the wealth.

Consider the following, there is currently 7.9Billion People and only 21Million BTC That is 0.002658227BTC Per Person...

Or is it....

1% = 79Million People
44.8% Bitcoin = 9,408,000BTC
0.119088607BTC for each of the Top 1%

Leaving....

99% = 7.821Billion People
55.2% Bitcoin = 11,592,000BTC
0.001482163BTC for each of the 99%

But.....

If you look at the remaining 99% closely, roughly 64% or 5.056Billion only control 2% of the worlds wealth or 420,000BTC

0.000083069 For each of the bottom 64%

Not taking into consideration any lost coins! The more variables we add the less and less Bitcoins Per Person....

Where above do you currently fit!....

It would just be matter a time, hold onto as many Bitcoins as you can! You are establishing your Generational Wealth!

[JayJuanGee]

I'm all for coinbase doing the IPO and being the "first crypto company to get on nasdaq" BUT the only question I have is.. If you sit on money to invest, why would you buy coinbase stock vs buying btc? Enlighten me someone?

You cannot buy bitcoin in your typical tax-advantageous accounts (in US), such as IRA and Roth IRA.
Theoretically, you can if you open something called self-directed IRA, but it is a hassle and they have yearly fees, typically.
You can buy GBTC and COIN there, though.
A simple explanation. Most US people have a bulk of their investable money in those entities (IRA and Roth IRA).

Gotcha, so it's for tax purposes more or less? How does it work if you buy BTC direct, no tax cuts or otherwise?

yes and plus, as i mentioned, you are not allowed to trade btc in most IRAs, but you can trade stocks (like GBTC and COIN).
BTW, it looks like that WS wants to play COIN the same way they played FB (push it down first).
They probably think that this drop might entice more employees to sell.
Right now those employees are probably on pins and needles since they could have sold it in pre-IPO sales for $470 and now the price is $100 lower.
$580 on FTX looks like a joke (for now).

The self directed IRA is well worth going through the hoops to setup. Thanks to WO I learned of the possibility over a year ago and decided to do it. Best decision I've ever made. Yes there are yearly fees but so what. It's worth it to take control of your retirement account. Don't sleep on this especially if you have a decent chunk sitting in a regular 401k or IRA not doing much.

That was some of the angles that I was superficially considering in late 2014.  I had already acquired a decent direct stake in bitcoin by late 2014, but my stake in bitcoin was negative in terms of the amount that I invested in and the BTC price (I think that the BTC price was around $400 during that time and my cost per BTC was likely higher than $600 per BTC), and I was thinking that I could take half of my 401k and largely more than double my BTC holdings (and bring down my average cost per BTC too), but have those funds within a self-directed IRA - so not suffer any tax consequences for the management or the moving around of those funds, once they are in such self-directed IRA.

My ultimate conclusion was that I had already acquired a more than sufficient stake in bitcoin, so why put my 401k funds at potential risk - and if BTC goes up anywhere close previous ATHs of $1,163, my BTC investment would provide sufficiently in terms of returns and hedging and of course, I was thinking that there were decent possibilities that BTC go into the $3k to $5k range with $10k as more bullish scenarios that could take many years to play out.

I don't really regret my decision, even though I do see the power of such self-directed optionality, which does still seem quite tempting and probably even more tempting for someone who might have a longer investment time horizon, as compared to my own.

Weird stuff is going on. Yes BTC is kind of putt putting but my kid is going on about his DOGE mining (I've reactivated a few Titans, and they are fucking PROFITABLE? ON DOGE?? IT'S THE GOD OF SHITCOINS!!!!!)

So what's up? People just nuts? I'm not seeing relative movement on LTC, it's still pegged at .004 to a BTC instead of the .012-.018 before the 2019 implosions.

I have around 20 l3+ miners and they merge mine ltc/doge

I sell the ltc for fiat and btc.

I hodl the doge and level up my sales.

2000 at 4 cents
2000 at 5 cents
2000 at 6 cents.
2000 at 7 cents
2000 at 8 cents
2000 at 9 cents
2000 at 10 cents
2000 at 11 cents
2000 at 12 cents
2000 at 13 cents
2000 at 14 cents

every one above is gone sold.

So i still have
1000 at 15 cents
1000 at 16 cents
1000 at 17 cents
1000 at 18 cents
1000 at 19 cents
  500 at 20 cents
  500 at 21 cents
  500 at 22 cents
  500 at 23 cents
  500 at 24 cents

while all of the above was listed and sold or is still listed.

I am stacking about 5 ltc and 10000 doge a month mining.

when every thing sells out or when I stack 20000 doge with the current mining I will stack again.

My partner hodl all his doge and is pushing 700,000 doge on hodl

I am a little reluctant to engage on your shitcoinery talk Philip, but seems that you are taking a kind of practical approach to the matter to try to skim profits in a seemingly reasonable way that really structures you to benefit from the volatility of that piece of shit, lock in profits as the doge coin prices goes up and still have some more to sell in the event it goes up even more.. which seems outrageous that it even got over a penny and now it is reaching 14x outrageous..

Anyone who holds onto an asset such as doge (referring to your partner) seems quite deluded and surely a kind of gamble based on ongoing pumpability that could end up drying up at any minute, especially when considering how much lackenings in fundamentals exist with that particular coin.

Regarding your selling ultimately into dollars and BTC, of course, BTC is the better longer term asset, but surely you are likely generating a decent quantity of dollar related bills too that are either somewhat connected to the business (probably the shed could be considered in such direction), and whether your electicity costs are going up, surely that is an ongoing expense in which it is good to have available dollars  but surely to spend the dollars rather than the BTC with considerations of Gresham law principles, even if you might have options to pay in BTC. 

By the way,  any of us who might attempt to increase some of our spending of BTC would likely be considering that we might be spending and replacing or at least taking those BTC from excess BTC that we had acquired - which may well be part of Saylor's recent rationale to considerably increase his likely ongoing BTC expenditures by deciding to pay as certain number of non-employees in BTC (not sure if they have options regarding doing that partially or if it is just something that they have to receive 100% in BTC).. but anyhow, my point is that these kinds of paying in BTC can become way easier to do when there had already been decisions to convert so large of portions of cashflow into BTC.. so when I largely recommend 1% to 10%, and if Saylor/Microstrategy had many examples of way higher allocations into BTC (maybe in the 50% or higher arena), then they become way more justified in terms of their shaving off some of those BTC holdings or putting the BTC holdings to work in terms of satisfying their ongoing operating expenses.

[AlcoHoDL]

I think I'll wait for SatoshiLabs to add Coin Control to Trezor Wallet (thanks 20kevin20), and then mark all of the attack dust as "do not spend". Will see how this works out and take it from there.

Any decent wallet will not try to spend dust that costs more to send than it's worth. I'm not sure if this would be under the limit or not.

All dust attacks are exactly 0.00000547 BTC, some are from the same address, but not all. That's around $0.34 per dust particle. I guess it would cost more to send than it's worth...

[20kevin20]

I don't really see how this gains you any benefit over just regular blockchain analysis.

Perhaps the bad actor knows that someone with small experience in crypto will not know about dust attacks, and so chances are high that those who do not move the dust are either inactive wallets or their owners know how to avoid these kind of attacks. If so, then you as an attacker know who is more vulnerable than the rest, prioritizing them on the list of targets.

@AlcoHoDl yes, it will cost more to spend than the dust itself. Especially during these times.

[BitcoinBunny]

Joe Biden and his evil Democrats going to try to expand the Supreme Court because if you are not happy with a voting outcome you can just change the rules as you can go along right?

Not even a mention of this on the CNN propaganda network.

Perhaps it's time someone invaded the USA and liberated it from these gangsters.

[JayJuanGee]

Saylor believes the 4 year cycles are over. In any case, their company is hodling for a minimum of 5 years.

I think he is wrong, that would mean that the halving and subsequent boom would never again be followed by a bust. No way, it's way to early for that.

I don't think he's completely correct either. So it could be there might be a bear winter thing, but maybe not 80% to 90% corrections. If you are prepared for that, and we get a smaller one, then you should be fine.

And the next halving is a puny thing, taking just a little over 3 btc per block. So maybe not completely correct, but this halving will be disappointing IMO. What will not be disappointing is what happens between now and said halving. I think we're going to see things we've never seen before.

It seems quite premature to be suggesting that this upcoming halvening is NOT going to be significant and even go so far as to call it "puny" when the fact of the matter remains that the impact of the value of the coins ONLY needs to be around 2x in order for the halvening to have a similar value impact (sure there may well be some other factors, but on the face of it, think about it).**  So, the 2020 halvening had BTC prices bouncing between $7k and $10k at around the time of the halvening, and do we have at least double that value now?  And what is going to be the value of BTC at around the time of the 2024 halvening?  Get a grip peeps, including uie-pooie, d_eddie.   Or am I reading you wrong?

What price do you expect BTC to be around the 2024 halvening?  I surmise that the BTC price around the 2024 halvening is going to be at least $60k.. which would be more than 6x the BTC price around the time of the 2020 halvening.  Would that be significant?  Would that be "puny"?   Here's my "speculation" of an answer in small text... so you do not read my answer before coming up with your own answer... do your own mental, logical and factual based work, peeps.. and don't be lazy fucks....  :   Would that be significant? well, yes.   Would that be "puny"?     not only no.. fuck no. 


**By the way, I will grant you some benefit of the doubt in regards to the required BTC price needing to be more than 2x higher in order for the impact to be higher based on the assessment of the size of the reward to BTC's whole circulating supply... Nonetheless, I am going to still use 2x as a general mental guideline.

[philipma1957]

I'm all for coinbase doing the IPO and being the "first crypto company to get on nasdaq" BUT the only question I have is.. If you sit on money to invest, why would you buy coinbase stock vs buying btc? Enlighten me someone?

You cannot buy bitcoin in your typical tax-advantageous accounts (in US), such as IRA and Roth IRA.
Theoretically, you can if you open something called self-directed IRA, but it is a hassle and they have yearly fees, typically.
You can buy GBTC and COIN there, though.
A simple explanation. Most US people have a bulk of their investable money in those entities (IRA and Roth IRA).

Gotcha, so it's for tax purposes more or less? How does it work if you buy BTC direct, no tax cuts or otherwise?

yes and plus, as i mentioned, you are not allowed to trade btc in most IRAs, but you can trade stocks (like GBTC and COIN).
BTW, it looks like that WS wants to play COIN the same way they played FB (push it down first).
They probably think that this drop might entice more employees to sell.
Right now those employees are probably on pins and needles since they could have sold it in pre-IPO sales for $470 and now the price is $100 lower.
$580 on FTX looks like a joke (for now).

The self directed IRA is well worth going through the hoops to setup. Thanks to WO I learned of the possibility over a year ago and decided to do it. Best decision I've ever made. Yes there are yearly fees but so what. It's worth it to take control of your retirement account. Don't sleep on this especially if you have a decent chunk sitting in a regular 401k or IRA not doing much.

That was some of the angles that I was superficially considering in late 2014.  I had already acquired a decent direct stake in bitcoin by late 2014, but my stake in bitcoin was negative in terms of the amount that I invested in and the BTC price (I think that the BTC price was around $400 during that time and my cost per BTC was likely higher than $600 per BTC), and I was thinking that I could take half of my 401k and largely more than double my BTC holdings (and bring down my average cost per BTC too), but have those funds within a self-directed IRA - so not suffer any tax consequences for the management or the moving around of those funds, once they are in such self-directed IRA.

My ultimate conclusion was that I had already acquired a more than sufficient stake in bitcoin, so why put my 401k funds at potential risk - and if BTC goes up anywhere close previous ATHs of $1,163, my BTC investment would provide sufficiently in terms of returns and hedging and of course, I was thinking that there were decent possibilities that BTC go into the $3k to $5k range with $10k as more bullish scenarios that could take many years to play out.

I don't really regret my decision, even though I do see the power of such self-directed optionality, which does still seem quite tempting and probably even more tempting for someone who might have a longer investment time horizon, as compared to my own.

Weird stuff is going on. Yes BTC is kind of putt putting but my kid is going on about his DOGE mining (I've reactivated a few Titans, and they are fucking PROFITABLE? ON DOGE?? IT'S THE GOD OF SHITCOINS!!!!!)

So what's up? People just nuts? I'm not seeing relative movement on LTC, it's still pegged at .004 to a BTC instead of the .012-.018 before the 2019 implosions.

I have around 20 l3+ miners and they merge mine ltc/doge

I sell the ltc for fiat and btc.

I hodl the doge and level up my sales.

2000 at 4 cents
2000 at 5 cents
2000 at 6 cents.
2000 at 7 cents
2000 at 8 cents
2000 at 9 cents
2000 at 10 cents
2000 at 11 cents
2000 at 12 cents
2000 at 13 cents
2000 at 14 cents

every one above is gone sold.

So i still have
1000 at 15 cents
1000 at 16 cents
1000 at 17 cents
1000 at 18 cents
1000 at 19 cents
  500 at 20 cents
  500 at 21 cents
  500 at 22 cents
  500 at 23 cents
  500 at 24 cents

while all of the above was listed and sold or is still listed.

I am stacking about 5 ltc and 10000 doge a month mining.

when every thing sells out or when I stack 20000 doge with the current mining I will stack again.

My partner hodl all his doge and is pushing 700,000 doge on hodl

I am a little reluctant to engage on your shitcoinery talk Philip, but seems that you are taking a kind of practical approach to the matter to try to skim profits in a seemingly reasonable way that really structures you to benefit from the volatility of that piece of shit, lock in profits as the doge coin prices goes up and still have some more to sell in the event it goes up even more.. which seems outrageous that it even got over a penny and now it is reaching 14x outrageous..

Anyone who holds onto an asset such as doge (referring to your partner) seems quite deluded and surely a kind of gamble based on ongoing pumpability that could end up drying up at any minute, especially when considering how much lackenings in fundamentals exist with that particular coin.

Regarding your selling ultimately into dollars and BTC, of course, BTC is the better longer term asset, but surely you are likely generating a decent quantity of dollar related bills too that are either somewhat connected to the business (probably the shed could be considered in such direction), and whether your electicity costs are going up, surely that is an ongoing expense in which it is good to have available dollars  but surely to spend the dollars rather than the BTC with considerations of Gresham law principles, even if you might have options to pay in BTC. 

By the way,  any of us who might attempt to increase some of our spending of BTC would likely be considering that we might be spending and replacing or at least taking those BTC from excess BTC that we had acquired - which may well be part of Saylor's recent rationale to considerably increase his likely ongoing BTC expenditures by deciding to pay as certain number of non-employees in BTC (not sure if they have options regarding doing that partially or if it is just something that they have to receive 100% in BTC).. but anyhow, my point is that these kinds of paying in BTC can become way easier to do when there had already been decisions to convert so large of portions of cashflow into BTC.. so when I largely recommend 1% to 10%, and if Saylor/Microstrategy had many examples of way higher allocations into BTC (maybe in the 50% or higher arena), then they become way more justified in terms of their shaving off some of those BTC holdings or putting the BTC holdings to work in terms of satisfying their ongoing operating expenses.

Yeah.

I only care about BTC.

So I have to weigh how to get it at a discount since most of the BTC I get (not all) is via mined coins.

I primarily believe in power to coin or POW
I primarily believe in BTC.

But on a practical level. Current prices for in stock gear.

18,500 usd in BTC direct gear will get me about 38 usd worth of BTC after power.

18,500 usd in ETH/GPU gear will get me about 56 usd worth of BTC after power and autoverting to BTC

18,500 usd in LTC/DOGE gear will get me about 175 usd worth go BTC after power and autoverting to BTC

In the 3 cases above. I could do any of the three with my power setup.

In fact I can do all of them since I have 300 kwatts of available power. and about 140 kwatts in use.

So I do have  this  in L3+ miner 10,000 usd in LTC/DOGE gear

  It is fully paid off and  I do get  on a daily basis get  about 54 usd worth of BTC after power and converting the ltc and doge to BTC.


I won't talk about the BTC gear
I won't talk about the Eht/gpu gear.

MY l3+  gear burns  15kwatts an hour.

My Eth and my BTC gear burns over 100kwatts

All of my mining is designed to gather BTC in.

My main partner is far more bullish on all coins. He is holding far too many other coins.  I begged him to cash more doge and convert to cash and btc.

But on paper he did better holding his doge.

I made over 60k on doge this year.

He is more than that about 77k if he cashes them.

[Dabs]

Cheapest transaction fee now is at least $5 USD. According to many estimators, it's 100 sats per vbyte.

[cAPSLOCK]

Joe Biden and his evil Democrats going to try to expand the Supreme Court because if you are not happy with a voting outcome you can just change the rules as you can go along right?

Not even a mention of this on the CNN propaganda network.

Perhaps it's time someone invaded the USA and liberated it from these gangsters.

What do you think is currently happening?  It's just the invaders are not intent on liberating us, but enslaving us.

The US is most likely done.  It's too bad.  We were really a good experiment.  In my opinion one of the best attempts at a good government ever done.

And yet, fully, and completely failed, subverted and now being destroyed.

Most of my countrymen have no idea either...

[BitcoinBunny]

Joe Biden and his evil Democrats going to try to expand the Supreme Court because if you are not happy with a voting outcome you can just change the rules as you can go along right?

Not even a mention of this on the CNN propaganda network.

Perhaps it's time someone invaded the USA and liberated it from these gangsters.

What do you think is currently happening?  It's just the invaders are not intent on liberating us, but enslaving us.

The US is most likely done.  It's too bad.  We were really a good experiment.  In my opinion one of the best attempts at a good government ever done.

And yet, fully, and completely failed, subverted and now being destroyed.

Most of my countrymen have no idea either...

I'm just astonished this is being accepted.

And then people riot over dead criminals constantly.

Mind you, that's probably part of the tactic playbook I guess.

[philipma1957]

they are not going to stack the supreme court.

just talk.

[Elwar]

Joe Biden and his evil Democrats going to try to expand the Supreme Court because if you are not happy with a voting outcome you can just change the rules as you can go along right?

Not even a mention of this on the CNN propaganda network.

Perhaps it's time someone invaded the USA and liberated it from these gangsters.

What do you think is currently happening?  It's just the invaders are not intent on liberating us, but enslaving us.

The US is most likely done.  It's too bad.  We were really a good experiment.  In my opinion one of the best attempts at a good government ever done.

And yet, fully, and completely failed, subverted and now being destroyed.

Most of my countrymen have no idea either...

#TEXIT

[JayJuanGee]

i am a bit concerned with stockmarket/dodge/btc/everything pumping....bet everything 'adjusts' or 'corrects' about 15-20%

Right? Like, everything's fun and cool but it's kinda scary that we've re-entered a 2017-like phase of the markets where literally every shitcoin pumps. Wouldn't necessarily mind an even deeper correction but I'm more afraid of a crypto winter instead. Feels like there was so much hype ever since 2020 and I'm not sure how healthy this long of a hype is.

Damn, I'm so mixed up with my thoughts. I see Bitcoin pumping the hell up but I also see it dumping hard. And these alts are so damn tempting to get into right now just to multiply my BTC, but I know it's a somewhat repeat of 2017 and a lot of hands are gonna be baited and screwed hard by alts.. on the other hand, I've seen the markets for so many years and made enough mistakes to approximate when it's time to purchase alts and when it's time to dump them all, and it seems like we're right in between the two so I stretch out every millimeter of my brain thinking whether I should react in any way to the markets or just see my portfolio value act up like a tsunami instead again, lol. Had ~20 BTC only from 1 alt back in 2017 but greed took over. I've basically seen that turn from 1 to 20 BTC and then back to less than 1. Alts are great if you wanna multiply your coins quickly during these kind of times, but otherwise they're just traps waiting for the next victims

In other words, just say no to alts (aka shitcoins), and let others fuck around with attempting to time that crap including relying on hypening blah blah blah.. nonsense metrics.

Regarding everything going down in the event of a shitcoin correction, who cares?  King daddy bitcoin is not reliant on various shitcoins, even if there sometimes exists a decent amount of symbiotic back and forth between bitcoin, shitcoins and various other assets.  So, sure we can see that some froth might need to be purged from shitcoins, whether that is a correction or whether that is bitcoin pumping and shitcoins staying stagnant or going negative, who knows and who cares?  It could take 50 years for this crap to sort out, and maybe it won't even sort out in 50 years, but those of us who can tell the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and other asset classes should recognize bitcoin as the place to put decent proportions of our value - even if, from time to time, shitcoins are pumping way greater than bitcoin and we "could have" made money by fucking around with shitcoins. 

Yeah, if you want to fuck around with shitcoins, maybe you can take a certain part of less than 10% and play around with shitcoins.. but don't be taking significant portions of your value out of bitcoin, even if bitcoin might only be going up 2x when shitcoins are going up 10x because with shitcoins there is hardly any way to know how far or even if they are going to pump.

are we poor again? i cant remember the cutoff points anymore

I know some people want to claim being poor when there is less than a 5% drop from the ATH, but that is not the correct level of threshold.

Personally, I believe that a 5% drop from the ATH is the bare minimum, but I am not going to go as far as requiring a 10% drop in BTC price either, because anything greater than 10% rises to the level of pure catastrophe, and might as well just throw in the towel if we get to that point.

By the way, these personal determinations do not require any considerations regarding how high the ATH may have gotten.. whether that might be 6x in 7 months or some other attempt to spin matters positively.  Fuck that.  Better to have some real talk around here, and a 5% drop in BTC prices from the ATH is sufficient to trigger such "real talk."

[Dabs]

Logically, if everything stays the same, after a halving event, the price of BTC should simply double. But some things are not the same and there are lots of little variables we can't even consider, and that sometimes the market prices part of it in, or does not, or has a delayed reaction.

Users who are not miners are often not aware of what halving means. They just buy or sell coins.

What we have seen historically is that on or around the date of halving, the price tends to do a multiple over a few months after.

My dumb and naive math puts BTC at $1m before 2027, or even as early as 2025 (a year after the next halving).

After a couple more halvings, so 2028 and 2032, we should be above $5 million to $10 million per coin.

[OutOfMemory]

vaping can both make it easier and harder to quit cigs. easier because, unlike a cig, it wont stay lit till its done (cigs add chemicals to keep it burning, contrast that with a cigar with no chemicals.. it goes out when you leave it). so, light a cig and you pretty much are forced to smoke the whole thing as its gonna burn down to the filter anyway. plus it coats everything with that nice orange gunk.. (smokers just look at your computer innards and fans.. eeeew man mine were soooo disgusting).

vaping. press the button, inhale or once or twice, put it back in your pocket nice and neat, done. and those subzero mods can put out clouds of vapour of sizes that you have to see to believe. and no ash, no ashtrays that stink, no orange coating in the rooms etc. of course theres maintenance - cleaning, replacing seals, coils etc. but thats was actually an attraction to me.. kinda calming doing coils maintenance and whatnot.

[...]

I'm against smoking in general, but the way you describe vaping makes me want to try it. I see colleagues and friends with these vaping machines that look so high-tech, like some kind of weapon that came out of an alien ship or something. OLED displays, coil resistances, wattage, energy reserves. 

I wouldn't touch these with a stick. There are findings that the liquids based on oils containing vitamin-E harm the lung tissue.
Oil based vapor is that thick, white foggy very opaque vapor. In comparison, vaped herbs produce very light, transparent vapor just like when you heat up water on a stove.

I use a mobile vaporizer, very rarely, but it's manually heated with a pocket lighter. A bi-metal cap making a click sound when the right temperature is reached and then the taste/efficiency depends on how strong you draw. Looks like sucking on a crack pipe a little 
You can vape tobacco too, but you have to manually clean it quite often.
At home i use the "volcano" table-top vaporizer. It's the best you can get, it's running almost daily for over 15 years now, just had to replace a broken switch two years ago. The best thing is, you can make hash-dope from the debris. Black, oily stuff which knocks you off your socks and also brown, dry hash with a lot of herb fiber.
I also make chocolate with the remaining herb, after vaping it twice, still has plenty of potency.
This way it also becomes three times cheaper to vape mary j.

Enuff with the offtopic now. Y'all know i'm a weed connoisseur, already 

[lightfoot]

they are not going to stack the supreme court.

just talk.

*munches popcorn*