Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

I really start to think that Saylor reads the WO...
[...]

Saylor is just trying to catch up with us, we are only 30844 pages ahead of him.

I wonder, Remember from the beginning Michael Saylor said Bitcoin had no chance,
all of a sudden he became Bitcoin ambassador,  one very thing I have known about Billionaires is that they will only tell you half the truth.

In several interviews Saylor explained very precisely why and how he changed his view on BTC.

Actually, he understands Bitcoin and its implications on a deeper level than most other public figures.


Saylor is no ambassador.  But he puts his money where his mouth is and sacrifices a lot of his time educating other people about BTC.

He wouldn't have to do it... he is super rich... he could just enjoy life fucking models all day long until he dies.

Saylor acts on conviction, because he gets how important BTC is for the world.  And that's what many Bitcoiners value.

Saylor got in very late, the Bitcoin party started long ago while he was busy playing the public critics role against Bitcoin most other figures in the Bitcoin community were busy accumulating more, now the music has changed and Saylor wants to join the party by all means. Anyways he is welcome on the list he can still fill some bags just left over anyway. The best pizza was served long ago.

You are talking nonsense.. Piesel.. Yeah.. relatively speaking Saylor came late to bitcoin, but so fucking what.

Even though we probably should not be kissing the asses of anyone in bitcoin, even if they end up serving as a pretty BIG bitcoin spokesperson in a lot of ways.. And surely Saylor ended up coming to bitcoin in a way that was quite aggressive and assertive in terms of his investment of both money and time, as Gachapin pointed out.

The amount of his splash should lead to a kind of "holy fucking shit" revelation in regards to how much he had seemed to have wanted to put into bitcoin, especially on a kind of relentless campaigning and educational front in which there are not too many smart people (who are also billionaires - maybe bitcoin ended up transitioning into billionaire rather than 9 digit millionaire status? hahahahaha).. who are even capable of articulating a variety of bitcoin related subjects correctly and in such illuminating kinds of ways...   Again, I am not trying to worship him or to suck his dick, but it still seems accurate to attempt to recognize the "holy fucking shit" level of his contributions rather than suggesting that he is an inferior creature because he came to the bitcoin party way later than several other bitcoiners (relatively speaking).

Another thing in relation to your lateness to the party ideas, sure Saylor may well be relatively later to the party than a lot of current OG bitcoiners, but in the whole scheme of things bitcoin remains an asset class/phenomena that is immature (and young, redundant?) as fuck - in terms of the level of adoption being likely in the less than 1% territory both in terms of number of bitcoin adopters who hold anywhere near a sufficient and meaningful level of allocation into bitcoin relative to where they could/should be in terms of their personal circumstances/wealth, and the quantity of monetized value that is currently in bitcoin (likely in the 1/2000ths level or so meaning that the current monetized value is something in the $1 quadrillion territory, but bitcoin has a market cap that is only around $0.5 trillion).

[1713429924]

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[1713429924]

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[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Biodom]

A nice piece of hopium (from reddit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhL-NhJKeCo

TL;DR G. Foss has an intrinsic value of btc of $250K and a target of $2mil (in today's $) with no time frame specified, maybe a few decades.

[JayJuanGee]

While we are criticizing him, maybe take some time to watch this.  It's really the best interview so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2DDOyqRltg

I just watched this a bit more than 1 hour video interview too, and I will concede that there is some validity to any kind of claim that Saylor is honing his various pro-bitcoin arguments and some of his ways of talking about bitcoin.

I am not sure if I would classify the above-linked interview as his best interview - because Saylor has had a lot of very good interviews, and in some sense, it seems that he has a pretty good ability to vary some of his talking points, so that it is quite possible that some of his earlier interviews are both going to cover subjects that are more basic or even resonate more strongly for some folks who might need to hear that subject matter angle - so there would be no way that any one of his many interviews (probably around 100+ by now) would be able to capture all relevant and important talking points in a way that is universally the best of all ways of presenting bitcoin matters.

By the way, I am not always clear regarding how much confrontation might be better or the accusation of circle jerk, so in some sense any interview can have differing dynamics when the interviewer might be making a lot of challenges to the interviewee but there could also be ways that some presentation of topics comes out better because interviewer and the interviewee are somewhat on the same page.  In this particular interview, the interviewer did not seem to want to be hostile towards Saylor, but there were several instances in which Saylor had to reframe or recharacterize the way the subjects of the questions were asked.. so in that regard, there seemed to have been some difficulties getting to higher levels of discussion because Saylor continued to identify several necessities to step back and dumb down the subject matter somewhat in order to help to clarify his framework in contrast to how the interviewer had initially framed or reframed whichever topic they were trying to discuss.

[jojo69]

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[wagmi]

Meanwhile....

BTC Dominance 2017: 44%
BTC Dominance 2022: 44%

[Biodom]

OT: for the science buffs out there...here is something that was unexpected (for me):

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-make-the-universe-think-for-us-20220531/

TL;DR an amazing story on "deep" learning networks, including detailed explanation of "backpropagation"
Spoiler: they can convert the image of the number into acoustic waves and then back into a number (their deep learning system would rec that acoustic wave as a number).

[death_wish]

Even though we probably should not be kissing the asses of anyone in bitcoin, even if they end up serving as a pretty BIG bitcoin spokesperson in a lot of ways.. And surely Saylor ended up coming to bitcoin in a way that was quite aggressive and assertive in terms of his investment of both money and time, as Gachapin pointed out.

He’s more than that.  MicroStrategy is a de facto national intelligence agency for Bitcoin.  Hello, what is their core business?  Their highly profitable business, the proceeds of which they have used to buy all those bitcoins?  Analytics and data mining to guide strategic business decisions.  Business Intelligence.

(This also relates to some points on the POW vs. POS thread, where I will reply later.)

I am dismayed that they apparently got blindsided together with everyone else, as someone out there quietly built up terrifically huge short positions and prepared to execute a multi-pronged trashing of the market, timed to hit right after the big Fed meeting.  But it’s not surprising.  MicroStrategy are no dummies—but (I infer/upon information and belief) Blackrock, Citadel, et al. are no dummies, either.  It is sharks vs. sharks, by analogy to “spy vs. spy”.

(Don’t forget that in mid-2020, Saylor himself very quietly built up MSTR’s initial long position.  IIRC, before he publicly announced it, he managed to scoop up something like 0.18% of the total then-existing BTC supply without anyone noticing.)

Not that timely intelligence on that would mean dumping BTC!  Not for someone who is in it for the long term.  If I had high capital and an inkling that a much higher-capital party was preparing to wreck the market, I would hold BTC long while shorting perps and dated futures, hedging with options, and taking other steps to batten down the hatches and secure my position with the goal of winding up with more BTC and more dollars at the bottom.

FYI, I also take it as highly significant that Saylor and his Business Intelligence company more or less suddenly exchanged their saved-up dollars to bitcoins in mid-2020.  (They essentially switched their savings account to BTC—before they started exchanging some of their ongoing income into bitcoins, and using debt to buy even more bitcoins.)  That is the action of an extremely well-informed investor, who had access to mountains of data that you and I have no idea about.

That’s much more significant than his tweets.  Helpful though those are (thx, @saylor).

[Gachapin]

A nice piece of hopium (from reddit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhL-NhJKeCo

TL;DR G. Foss has an intrinsic value of btc of $250K and a target of $2mil (in today's $) with no time frame specified, maybe a few decades.

Watching this, it came to my mind that there probably is a natural selection going on right now, with POS shitcoins luring in the dumb money so that the smart money gets its time to buy up the most important POW-Coin on the cheap.

Is that planned? Probably not... only natural selection..


Very fittingly they displayed a steak in a frying pan, when Proof Of Stake was mentioned... 

[Biodom]

Even though we probably should not be kissing the asses of anyone in bitcoin, even if they end up serving as a pretty BIG bitcoin spokesperson in a lot of ways.. And surely Saylor ended up coming to bitcoin in a way that was quite aggressive and assertive in terms of his investment of both money and time, as Gachapin pointed out.

He’s more than that.  MicroStrategy is a de facto national intelligence agency for Bitcoin.  Hello, what is their core business?  Their highly profitable business, the proceeds of which they have used to buy all those bitcoins?  Analytics and data mining to guide strategic business decisions.  Business Intelligence.

(This also relates to some points on the POW vs. POS thread, where I will reply later.)

I am dismayed that they apparently got blindsided together with everyone else, as someone out there quietly built up terrifically huge short positions and prepared to execute a multi-pronged trashing of the market, timed to hit right after the big Fed meeting.  But it’s not surprising.  MicroStrategy are no dummies—but (I infer/upon information and belief) Blackrock, Citadel, et al. are no dummies, either.  It is sharks vs. sharks, by analogy to “spy vs. spy”.

(Don’t forget that in mid-2020, Saylor himself very quietly built up MSTR’s initial long position.  IIRC, before he publicly announced it, he managed to scoop up something like 0.18% of the total then-existing BTC supply without anyone noticing.)

Not that timely intelligence on that would mean dumping BTC!  Not for someone who is in it for the long term.  If I had high capital and an inkling that a much higher-capital party was preparing to wreck the market, I would hold BTC long while shorting perps and dated futures, hedging with options, and taking other steps to batten down the hatches and secure my position with the goal of winding up with more BTC and more dollars at the bottom.

FYI, I also take it as highly significant that Saylor and his Business Intelligence company more or less suddenly exchanged their saved-up dollars to bitcoins in mid-2020.  (They essentially switched their savings account to BTC—before they started exchanging some of their ongoing income into bitcoins, and using debt to buy even more bitcoins.)  That is the action of an extremely well-informed investor, who had access to mountains of data that you and I have no idea about.

That’s much more significant than his tweets.  Helpful though those are (thx, @saylor).

I am in a bit of a loss here. So, you are saying that he was SO well informed that kept buying while SOMEONE was preparing to cut bitcoin price in half?
M. Saylor is a good spokesman for bitcoin, but his buys were mostly (in time) at the higher price with an average of 30.8K or something like that.
He is not a trader, sure, but it was not a great acumen to buy in mid-late 2020. It's not like Winkelvosses, who bought roughly the same numbers of btc (about 120-130K) at $11 or around.
THAT was a prescient buy, made them multi-billionares from a few mil investment.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[CLS63]

Jeez, hasn’t poor mindrust suffered enough already?



@laman_nft3
NEW: Turkey's annual inflation soars to 73.5% in May, highest since 1998.

Ever hear about #Bitcoin  , Mr. President?
https://twitter.com/laman_nft3/status/1533024680629751810?s=21

🇹🇷

The Turkish economy has been managed very badly for a long time. The president Erdogan has the full control of the Central Bank which needs to be independent normally. The 73.5% inflation rate is the rate that the government stated. The inflation rate that independent academicians stated is 160.76%. Every young person who is living in my country is dreaming of living abroad. If Erdogan's dictatorial regime doesn't end by the elections taking place in one year, this would be a disaster for Turkey.

https://twitter.com/ENAGRUP/status/1532608409073242115?s=20&t=p-VzTWNnybNTzwFlxEkXCA

[cAPSLOCK]

While we are criticizing him, maybe take some time to watch this.  It's really the best interview so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2DDOyqRltg

I just watched this a bit more than 1 hour video interview too, and I will concede that there is some validity to any kind of claim that Saylor is honing his various pro-bitcoin arguments and some of his ways of talking about bitcoin.

I am not sure if I would classify the above-linked interview as his best interview - because Saylor has had a lot of very good interviews, and in some sense, it seems that he has a pretty good ability to vary some of his talking points, so that it is quite possible that some of his earlier interviews are both going to cover subjects that are more basic or even resonate more strongly for some folks who might need to hear that subject matter angle - so there would be no way that any one of his many interviews (probably around 100+ by now) would be able to capture all relevant and important talking points in a way that is universally the best of all ways of presenting bitcoin matters.

By the way, I am not always clear regarding how much confrontation might be better or the accusation of circle jerk, so in some sense any interview can have differing dynamics when the interviewer might be making a lot of challenges to the interviewee but there could also be ways that some presentation of topics comes out better because interviewer and the interviewee are somewhat on the same page.  In this particular interview, the interviewer did not seem to want to be hostile towards Saylor, but there were several instances in which Saylor had to reframe or recharacterize the way the subjects of the questions were asked.. so in that regard, there seemed to have been some difficulties getting to higher levels of discussion because Saylor continued to identify several necessities to step back and dumb down the subject matter somewhat in order to help to clarify his framework in contrast to how the interviewer had initially framed or reframed whichever topic they were trying to discuss.

Eehhh.. I was a little hyperbolic, but what I really like about this interview is he goes significantly deeper into some of his ideas.  I think he tunes it for the audience.  He does those fortune cookie quotes for Twitter, he does deep intelligent framing for his baseline audience, but I THINK because this interview was for the cerebral Reason audience he sort of went further and more esoteric.  I enjoy that.  I think his mental frameworks around Bitcoin are extraordinary.

[cAPSLOCK]

Meanwhile....

BTC Dominance 2017: 44%
BTC Dominance 2022: 44%

This is a significant and easily overlooked metric.

[Gachapin]

Meanwhile....

BTC Dominance 2017: 44%
BTC Dominance 2022: 44%

This is a significant and easily overlooked metric.

This time we also had NFTs that probably took some capital out of the shitcoin market..

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

This article is hilarious.  
...
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-you-should-sell-your-bitcoin
...

Fuck me, what a laugh!

And what a great ending!


PS
It's probably obvious that McCormack isn't sharpest tool in the shed.  But that tweet def takes the cake.  What an idiot...

I agree that I like the list and various provocative aspects, even if I do not agree with Svetski on a few of the points in the list because ultimately bitcoin is for everyone, even though they might not know it during their lifetimes.. hahahaha... and of course, Svetski has a right to make his sometimes overly provocative and narrow points whether I like/agree with each and every one of them or their nuances or not.

With regards with McCormack, I imagine that you (Gachapin) are referring to some tweet that McCormack made.. so I am not sure what that tweet reference is.

Not to mention that Saylor is American; he may have noticed that the Biden administration dislikes POW.

In that latest and "greatest" video interview that cAPS provided (my response here), Saylor seems to be intimately aware of Biden's latest bitcoin-related proclamations and appreciates that the latest Biden memo seems to "get bitcoin" a wee bit better than some other political figures - and he specifically mentioned Elizabeth Warren - (well he was responding to a question that the interviewer presented to him)(you can see Saylor respond to that Warren's views specific question at around 14.5 minutes into the interview.. I cued it up for you here)

We were just talking about POS yesterday. Today he tweets:

PoW is money. PoS is credit.

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1533072638268035074?cxt=HHwWhMCyraTcyMYqAAAA

Jay, please don’t feel bad if I deem you overruled by Saylor.    This is now fully on-topic in WO:

Sure.. you are hilarious DW.

 

In other words, fuck Saylor.



hahahaha

Just kidding...




Let me focus for a second in regards to substance.

You can likely read through my various responses to your seemingly ongoing dramatization of the POW versus POS debate, and you may well start to appreciate that my responses are starting to boil down to my own assessment that you (DW) seem to be devolving into a kind of over-dramatization of either the problem that is in front of us and/or our need (as Bitcoiners) to be called to arms in fighting the seemingly ongoing POS onslaught... So even if we take your statement as true that all of the other coins are transitioning to POS which will result in bitcoin on its own as the ONLY POW coin, then I still am having quite a few difficulties recognizing and/appreciating those kinds of possible evolving facts to actually be as BIG of a threat to bitcoin as you seem to be wanting to make them out to be. 

In other words, fuck all the POS coins.. let all the shitcoins convert to POS.. who fucking cares?  It does not even seem to be  threat to bitcoin.. more like a sign of bitcoin is winning.. we are winning boys (and girl) we are winning (famous last words as the guillotine comes down)..

 

So, in that regard, Saylor's statement that describes POS as credit and POW as money does not really say anything different than what any of the OG bitcoiners (including yours truly, if I can be so brave as to include my lil selfie therein) are already saying in regards to POS being just a continuation of the status quo systems, while bitcoin remains the only innovation in town- at least so far.. .. and maybe even more likely the ONLY innovation if no other coins are even trying to imitate it (or to take any of its market share) any more..

Please don’t incite the wannabe sleuths around here to start guessing which account is his.

On the other hand, it is an awful coincidence that I started sounding the alarm here in WO about POS being a serious threat to Bitcoin—and then Saylor tweeted about it.  By wannabe-sleuth standards, that amounts to proof that I am Saylor’s super-secret Bitcoin Forum account!

oh gawd!!!!     

[Gachapin]

This article is hilarious.  
...
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-you-should-sell-your-bitcoin
...

Fuck me, what a laugh!

And what a great ending!


PS
It's probably obvious that McCormack isn't sharpest tool in the shed.  But that tweet def takes the cake.  What an idiot...

...
With regards with McCormack, I imagine that you (Gachapin) are referring to some tweet that McCormack made.. so I am not sure what that tweet reference is.
...

You can find a picture of his tweet under point 35.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-you-should-sell-your-bitcoin

Seems he already deleted it... wonder why 

[Gachapin]

I really start to think that Saylor reads the WO...

Saylor runs a business intelligence (BI) company that specializes in analytics and data mining to guide strategic business decisions.  Although I don’t know anything about MicroStrategy’s internal operations, I’d wager that Saylor probably has operations to monitor Internet chatter about MicroStrategy’s cash reserve asset:  Bitcoin.  National intelligence agencies would call that “OSINT”.

This is not to start some rumour or grandiose conspiracy theory, but to the contrary.  I’m pointing out that even if the instances you cite are not all coincidental—a big “if”!—even if Saylor picked that latest theme up from my WO posts, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Saylor himself saw anything here, much less that he regularly reads WO.  For billionaires who run business intelligence services to get reports about interesting points raised in public discussions would seem quite mundane to me.

I’ll also go out on a limb here, and guess that maybe Saylor and his BI company noticed the POS issue all by themselves.  POS has been growing like an invasive weed strangling the whole “crypto” world.  For those who don’t live in a Bitcoin echo chamber, it is lamentably impossible to miss being assaulted with explicitly anti-Bitcoin POS propaganda.  Not to mention that Saylor is American; he may have noticed that the Biden administration dislikes POW.

Yeah you are probably right.  
I just find it interesting to think about who might be reading the WO...

I wouldn't be surprised if he already has an account...

...it is an awful coincidence that I started sounding the alarm here in WO about POS being a serious threat to Bitcoin—and then Saylor tweeted about it.  By wannabe-sleuth standards, that amounts to proof that I am Saylor’s super-secret Bitcoin Forum account!

ha..