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Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (0.9%)
7/28 - 11 (10.3%)
8/4 - 16 (15%)
8/11 - 7 (6.5%)
8/18 - 6 (5.6%)
8/25 - 7 (6.5%)
After August - 59 (55.1%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26465005 times)
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September 20, 2024, 05:28:50 PM
Last edit: September 20, 2024, 08:35:52 PM by Torque
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What I am hearing is that we really need to find new ways to market Bitcoin to the ignorant masses.

PMs have been around for millennia, are deemed a safe investment by governments, banks, financial gurus, and the mass media, and yet...

...none of the ignorant masses around me that I know (e.g., friends, family, colleagues, etc.) even OWN any investment gold, silver, etc.

Literally zero ownership.

Ignorant masses in most cases just want to remain ignorant to justify their not investing, period.

They would rather moan about being poor, than to actually take action to do something about it.

So if they refuse, or can't afford, to purchase PMs, then what makes us believe that they would invest in Bitcoin?

The same rules apply, I think.

Because investing is hard, requires parting with money they barely have (and that they would rather spend elsewhere), and requires taking risks.
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September 20, 2024, 06:14:50 PM
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Im more for the usage and basic base population in BTC rising, it is true most people dont keep savings or investments especially.  Some would argue they invested in education to later gain, still its alot of debt on average in the west not capital.   Theres the housing market or possibly pensions, those two are the most common savings of a kind for people to use.

Theres also life assurance policies and other types of saving, trading and investment but its become fairly rare.  Nixon's order could have been been nullified if the people had taken over and just held gold instead of dollars but they dont so the gap between the two is gigantic now.

Theres been net buying in Gold for a couple decades, so some countries like India China populations do hold some but mostly its central banks which are responsible for that long term trend.    China and Russia both see gold as a means to usurp dollar influence globally.  Its hard to say what will happen apart from an obvious value decline in FIAT continually by necessity now due to deficit budget spending.

Gold is a commodity, it has no yield so I would be picky and state its more speculative then a mainstream investment.   It has no decay, so its superior to normal commodities but its still the same difficult market variable spiky price to trade and hold.   This is part of why gold is unpopular, alot of patience required but its clear theres benefits eventually.

   BTC I would compare to that, its not used enough, deployed for yield etc. so it can resemble the spiky commodity markets. So long as its increasingly used I'm positive on it.   I always hear outside of USA or the west of a dollar drought, the inability to access global commerce through illiquidity restricts business.  As an outsider to developing markets thats hard to understand so well, but maybe it means we need more alternatives to politics and FIAT.

65k+ on a weekly close I'm looking for something to happen, as rising further now would be a positive break to a negative 6 month sequence since March.  The inverse scenario is a failure at this point and I think more repeats, which I believe we are making lower lows.  Im looking for resolution but also for things to get messy with greater volatility most likely first off.

BTC is over a trillion now, we perceive 6 months as a long time when its just 1 giants foot step so we might end up waiting alot longer still tbh
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September 20, 2024, 06:18:19 PM

@JJG have been thinking a bit about what you said about spending some btc, and replacing it. Looked into some memorable ways of spending my first btc, and came across an island(https://wikitravel.org/en/Big_Corn_Island) I think we all need to visit at some point, it even has a floating Bitcoin bar(https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g612405-d24092796-Reviews-Bit_Coin_Island_Bar-Big_Corn_Island_Corn_Islands_Southern_Atlantic_Autonomous_Re.html)!

Has any one got some good/memorable suggestions for your first BTC purchase?

Will absolutely replace what I spend tho!

Do I get that right, you plan to spend BTC for something just for the sake of spending BTC and plan to later buy it back?

Can't follow this line of thought to be honest. Spending BTC is not fun, it's always painful as you sold always too early. Buying BTC is the fun part.

Again (mis-)quoting JimboToronto with: "Buy if you can, sell if you have to."

My reasoning is more on the utility of btc, wanting to transact in it and learn how to do that. Up to this point I buy, I transact to btc address and thats all great but I haven't sent/sold any for anything physical or a service. So yes your right I just want to spend some for the sake of it, and I 'm asking if anyone has anything memorable they have done for their "first time"

I get the Jimbo quote, only do it when you need to. But when I need to, I need to know how to do it too.


Understood, I see your point now.

It's actually good to see and actually experience things working and as somebody who needs to see things working myself (and stick my fingers into it) I support that view fully.
Though maybe just send some sats around (i.e. between your exchange and one or more of your wallets), no need to spend precious corn for funzies at this point in time (except of course if needed due to lack of dirty fiat as it is my situation - though I use it only for really urgent needs, funzies and luxuries are only planned for next year..).
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September 20, 2024, 06:39:34 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

Go to sleep, dream a dream that you want, tomorrow you become a millionaire.

Nothing is instant, patience is needed.

Just hold.
how do I dream dreams that I want ?
Start by learning the techniques in this article...

https://www.bettersleep.com/blog/is-it-possible-to-control-your-dreams

I think that it relates to the idea of controlling your lucid dreams.

I am not personally claiming to know how to do it.
I remember having powerful dreams when I began taking magnesium + zinc supplements (a doctor recommended them). The dreams were almost like feature-length movies, complete with plot, twists & turns and everything. I was looking forward to going to sleep, wondering what dream I would have.

I have now stopped taking supplements (trying to take my nutrients from natural sources), and the dreams have subsided. I still have them, but not as intense and complex as when I was taking the supplements. Or maybe I do have them, but can't remember them? It's interesting how a chemical change can affect you in different ways...

I am not quite sure how to react to this since even though I have been taking quite a few supplements over the years, frequently I consider that I might be just wasting money with the various ones that I take.. .and also I had not really noticed any kind of meaningful change in regards to how I sleep or the dreams that I have (or don't have).  I am pretty sure that I had been taking zinc of a bit more than 1 year (50 Mg in the evening), and I recall taking it previously (maybe several years ago), and there is some Zinc (11 mg) in my current multi-vitamin that I have probably been taking continuously for a few years in the mornings.  I might have tried Magnesium as a separate supplement for a while several years ago, yet I don't recall any changes, and in my current multi-vitamin it is listed as 100 mg.   

Maybe I will try taking Magnesium again.. I saw an article that said that we should not take more than 420 mg (for men) or 350 mg (for women) per day, and then that article listed various kinds of Magnesium, which caused me to ask the question regarding which kind might be better, which perhaps Magnesium Glycinate might be better?

A quickie look at ordering on Amazon shows dosages of Magnesium Glycinate that are between 200 and 500 mg, which seems to be that they don't care if our dosage might go over 350mg or 420mg.. especially if I might consider the 100mg in my multi-vitamin.  I might need to consider, including opening myself up to recommendations in regards to either brand, dosage and/or type of Magnesium.

My dreams were either world class horror movies or world class sex dreams with me and my wife.

I am having a few wee widdo bit of difficulties believing such a story. 

What guy has "world class dreams" of having sex with his "wife".. just does not seem to conform with my conceptions (pun not intended) of the nature of man (at least not "real" men, #nohomo).

@JJG have been thinking a bit about what you said about spending some btc, and replacing it. Looked into some memorable ways of spending my first btc, and came across an island(https://wikitravel.org/en/Big_Corn_Island) I think we all need to visit at some point, it even has a floating Bitcoin bar(https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g612405-d24092796-Reviews-Bit_Coin_Island_Bar-Big_Corn_Island_Corn_Islands_Southern_Atlantic_Autonomous_Re.html)!

Has any one got some good/memorable suggestions for your first BTC purchase?

Will absolutely replace what I spend tho!
Do I get that right, you plan to spend BTC for something just for the sake of spending BTC and plan to later buy it back?

Can't follow this line of thought to be honest. Spending BTC is not fun, it's always painful as you sold always too early. Buying BTC is the fun part.

Again (mis-)quoting JimboToronto with: "Buy if you can, sell if you have to."
My reasoning is more on the utility of btc, wanting to transact in it and learn how to do that. Up to this point I buy, I transact to btc address and thats all great but I haven't sent/sold any for anything physical or a service. So yes your right I just want to spend some for the sake of it, and I 'm asking if anyone has anything memorable they have done for their "first time"

I get the Jimbo quote, only do it when you need to. But when I need to, I need to know how to do it too.

I tend to think about spend and replace in more manageable levels, and so any kind of spends that you do really would not even have to be anything very memorable or big, since it seems that the BIGGER the spend, then potentially the more difficult to replace... unless you already have a few thousand dollars that you have in your bank account and then you spend that few thousand using bitcoin (since you found a place that accepts bitcoin for your hotel or flight or food or something like that), and so then you plan your spend and replace accordingly.
...<snip>
Good point, doesn't have to be a huge amount it could just as be an smaller amount, the transaction is the learning and a little bit just to do something fun. Maybe i wait until pizza day next year and do that Smiley

In 2014 and 2015, I must have had more than 20 people who I sent gifts of bitcoin that tended to be between $5 and $20, and in those times I was in spend and replace mode, so surely I replaced those transaction with at least the quantity that I spent, and most instances I would buy back a bit more than I spent so that I would feel that my BTC stash was not going down, yet at the same time, surely my BTC stash could have had been larger if I had used the money just to buy more BTC for myself rather than sending gifts of bitcoin to others, and in an overwhelming majority of those instances, the recipient was not very excited about receiving bitcoin from me. 

One of the reasons that it was fairly easy to send bitcoin during that time had to do with my use of Circle, so all I needed to know about the other person was their e-mail address, and so I would send the transaction to their e-mail address from my Circle account, and then if they opened up the e-mail, then the transaction became irreversible; however, if they did not open the e-mail, then I could claim back the money to my Circle account.  It was easy, and these days it seems that there are fewer of those kinds of "easy" services.

Of course, using third party services like that was not really bitcoin, so even when I was sending to bitcoin addresses, I tended to use 3rd party services on one side or the other side of the transaction, although I did have a blockchain.info wallet too, so I did use that too, from time to time, in order to transact directly, and surely some kinds of wallets are seeming to be more self-sovereignty oriented than others, yet it seems to always have had been that the more self-sovereign that we tried to be in terms of trying to maintain privacy and/or self control of our wallets (and addresses) the more complicated it sometimes becomes in regards to keeping track of keys.. which is all fine and dandy as long as we don't lose our phone or whatever device we might be using to transact.

What I am hearing is that we really need to find new ways to market Bitcoin to the ignorant masses.
"Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve"

I hold dear to this mantra, we dont need to promote BTC. Its gone mainstream there is an awareness of it, but whether someone goes deeper or not is a personal decision.

I have given up talking to people about, really because of the hostility i receive mostly.

There is a certain validity to those kinds of views, yet I would not describe very much hostility in regards to my bringing up the topic, even though there could be stains of hostility underlying some of what I would more characterize as forms of apathy... and or inaction, since sometimes, even if there might be some interest, many times the interest is expressed in detached kind of ways in which there are regrets that "I should have had listened to you," which causes my most common rebuttal to proclaim that there is no time like the present.. and proclaiming that I still make the same recommendation to get started as soon as possible... So the almost universal response of inaction might be interpreted as a kind of passive aggressive hostility in the guise of apathy.  I am still a sucker though, since I am more than willing to discuss bitcoin matters with anyone who is expressing interest that seems to be motivated by them rather than my having to motivate and/or inspire them to be interested... so there can be some sense of rejection if I am upping my animation and my showing of interest in a topic that is hardly exciting to the one(s) on the other side of the discussion.

I think we need to be extreme carefull with the movements, because now we have some super HUGE players into the BTC, the problem with this pre announced Bullish market is the preannounced part.

So much people is gonna take debt to buy BTC because " is gonna be UP right now after the Halving", "is gonna be UP just after the FED announce", and with that the BIG players can destroy you manipulating the market. So take so much care dont be an idiot and play the long game.

I know a lot of people here is gonna say my comment is shit, but guys we are a 0.0001% of the world and most of here for sure are always be in profit because you enter so much early.But the outside world is diferent.
You're comment is not shit, it is 1000% dead on the money.

The best time to buy BTC is when it is way down, kicked in the mud, and nobody cares.

Not when "some event occurred" or "some event is about to occur".

For a newbie no coiner or low coiner, the best time to buy BTC is as soon as possible. Get started and then buy frequently and persistently until no longer being either a no coiner or a low coiner and having enough to feel financially and psychologically prepared for up.. which surely could take a decently long time for a person to stack enough sats (at whatever price) to start to feel sufficiently/adequately prepared for up.

What I am hearing is that we really need to find new ways to market Bitcoin to the ignorant masses.
PMs have been around for millennia, are deemed a safe investment by governments, banks, financial gurus, and the mass media, and yet...

...none of the ignorant masses around me that I know (e.g., friends, family, colleagues, etc.) even OWN any investment gold, silver, etc.

Literally zero ownership.

Ignorant masses in most cases just want to remain ignorant to justify their not investing, period.

They would rather moan about being poor, then to actually take action to do something about it.

So if they refuse, or can't afford, to purchase PMs, then what makes us believe that they would invest in Bitcoin?

The same rules apply, I think.

Because investing is hard, requires parting with money they barely have (and that they would rather spend elsewhere), and requires taking risks.

I think that investing into bitcoin is much easier than investing in precious metals (PMs), yet still there is a learning curve, and there are also needs to take action rather than merely considering the matter in a passive yet no action way.

Im more for the usage and basic base population in BTC rising, it is true most people dont keep savings or investments especially.  Some would argue they invested in education to later gain, still its alot of debt on average in the west not capital.   Theres the housing market or possibly pensions, those two are the most common savings of a kind for people to use.

Theres also life assurance policies and other types of saving, trading and investment but its become fairly rare.  Nixon's order could have been been nullified if the people had taken over and just held gold instead of dollars but they dont so the gap between the two is gigantic now.

Theres been net buying in Gold for a couple decades, so some countries like India China populations do hold some but mostly its central banks which are responsible for that long term trend.    China and Russia both see gold as a means to usurp dollar influence globally.  Its hard to say what will happen apart from an obvious value decline in FIAT continually by necessity now due to deficit budget spending.

Gold is a commodity, it has no yield so I would be picky and state its more speculative then a mainstream investment.   It has no decay, so its superior to normal commodities but its still the same difficult market variable spiky price to trade and hold.   This is part of why gold is unpopular, alot of patience required but its clear theres benefits eventually.

   BTC I would compare to that, its not used enough, deployed for yield etc. so it can resemble the spiky commodity markets. So long as its increasingly used I'm positive on it.   I always hear outside of USA or the west of a dollar drought, the inability to access global commerce through illiquidity restricts business.  As an outsider to developing markets thats hard to understand so well, but maybe it means we need more alternatives to politics and FIAT.

65k+ on a weekly close I'm looking for something to happen, as rising further now would be a positive break to a negative 6 month sequence since March.  The inverse scenario is a failure at this point and I think more repeats, which I believe we are making lower lows.  Im looking for resolution but also for things to get messy with greater volatility most likely first off.

BTC is over a trillion now, we perceive 6 months as a long time when its just 1 giants foot step so we might end up waiting alot longer still tbh

You are quite the pessimist, and it seems that historically you have been that way.  Even though I don't agree with your pessimism, I still sent you a merit for your providing several pieces of rationale for your pessimism - even though I am getting the sense that you still don't really understand or appreciate both the paradigm-shifting nature of bitcoin nor that bitcoin is both in a battle and also in its earliest stages of exponential scurve adoption, which justify that perceptions of "being stuck" or "waiting" is more of an illusion rather than a reality.
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September 20, 2024, 06:47:27 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), d_eddie (1)

I remember having powerful dreams when I began taking magnesium + zinc supplements (a doctor recommended them). The dreams were almost like feature-length movies, complete with plot, twists & turns and everything. I was looking forward to going to sleep, wondering what dream I would have.

I have now stopped taking supplements (trying to take my nutrients from natural sources), and the dreams have subsided. I still have them, but not as intense and complex as when I was taking the supplements. Or maybe I do have them, but can't remember them? It's interesting how a chemical change can affect you in different ways...

Interesting. Which type/form of zinc and magnesium and what was the dosage?

I was only every able to have two types of lucid dreams, I was like the wind I could go anywhere i wanted and could fly there. I could feel the wind blowing against my face, I was aware I was dreaming and I could feel some emotions. I could feel some physical sensations, like standing on beach I could feel the sand in my toes or leaning against a wall I could feel the brick pattern with shoulder. It was very odd but enjoyable. The second type I could observe a scene, sort of like an out of body experience is described. It was very uncomfortable, I could hear people taking and watching them do things. I couldn't interact with them I was like a ghost, present but couldn't feel anything physical.

In the hypnosis sessions i got, i always was some kind of "soul", and one of the few times i felt the wind, the way you described it, when hovering over a big pyramid waiting for something to happen there, and i was waiting a long time (like eons) already, and still had to wait much longer. And i was fine with that, and calm, at peace. An intensive meditative experience.
Since then, i'm often imaginating that we (humans) don't get reborn, but we're one soul, each, and we get one life, each. Before and after, we're just souls again.
Sorry for being OT, this is probably totally different, but the way you felt the wind reminded me of all this.
It's time for me to get hypnotized again, asap  Cool

Quote
I was an interesting time, the only thing that still happens sometimes now many many years later, is that I will experience sleep paralysis. You wake up and you can't move for a bit. I blame myself for fucking around with this but once the realization kicks in the panic goes away and you can kind of make yourself come out of it. I do miss the flying tho!

This is typically a sign of waking up during deep sleep states. Suggesting a possible connection to the alarm clock method.
I tried to learn lucid dreaming using the "am i awake or dreaming?" method. Constantly repeating this phrase in the back of my head throughout the day, sometimes hundreds of times. Then there's the moment when you are actually dreaming and ask yourself (in the dream) if you are awake or dreaming. And then you take a look and you will know. I wasn't dedicated enough to this routine and quit it after a few lucid dreams. This method also doesn't mess with you sleeping patterns.

The main motivation was actually my first lucid dream. I was just dreaming normally, and in this dream a old friend, that i have not seen in a while, came up to me and said: "listen: you are dreaming, but now that you know, you can do anything you want". Suddenly the dream was like a black-and-white movie and i could consciously act in it. It ended a while later, after i lost control again. After i woke up, i wanted more and began to research lucid dreaming.
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I see rumors circulating online about rumors that big banks may soon be able to custody your crypto. Meaning that you’ll be able to have (for example) Bank of America hold onto your Bitcoin for you instead of an exchange or self custody. I think this will go a long way towards making mortgages backed by Bitcoin a reality for the masses. It could also spur more adoption from people who avoid crypto exchanges and don’t want to self custody, which I imagine is a lot.
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I see rumors circulating online about rumors that big banks may soon be able to custody your crypto. Meaning that you’ll be able to have (for example) Bank of America hold onto your Bitcoin for you instead of an exchange or self custody. I think this will go a long way towards making mortgages backed by Bitcoin a reality for the masses. It could also spur more adoption from people who avoid crypto exchanges and don’t want to self custody, which I imagine is a lot.

If BOA or Wells Fargo would custody BTC and it was FDIC insured up to 250k  Btc would whale bigly.
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September 20, 2024, 09:56:14 PM
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I see rumors circulating online about rumors that big banks may soon be able to custody your crypto. Meaning that you’ll be able to have (for example) Bank of America hold onto your Bitcoin for you instead of an exchange or self custody. I think this will go a long way towards making mortgages backed by Bitcoin a reality for the masses. It could also spur more adoption from people who avoid crypto exchanges and don’t want to self custody, which I imagine is a lot.

If BOA or Wells Fargo would custody BTC and it was FDIC insured up to 250k  Btc would whale bigly.

I agree the potential is there. Older investors that aren’t tech savvy would certainly appreciate it and likely feel more comfortable making their first Bitcoin purchase. I think the ETF does give those people a good option, not having to pay a management fee would make a bank a better option. Only downside is they’ll operate based on a fractional reserve, so they’ll be loaning out your BTC and likely paying a tiny bit of interest and selling BTC that doesn’t exist to customers. So it will be a double edged sword and a likely disaster in the event of a bankruptcy or major recession, but progress in assimilating with the existing system for those who want that.
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September 20, 2024, 10:52:36 PM
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Merited by JayJuanGee (1), d_eddie (1)

That sounds like a very sustainable withdrawal system if you are selling 2% every couple of years, yet I think that many of us might recommend spreading out your sells to be several times every couple of years rather than 2% to cover a whole 2 years, especially since this seems more like a consolidation area (and close to the bottom) rather than anything close to toppy.
I usually just sell once every month, just enough to cover my expenses. Keeping (near) all of net-worth in btc at all times has served me well so far.

I don't know why I sold so much this time. I had more coins than usual on CEX (due to the Mt.Gox payout), maybe that's why. It was a moment of weakness, I'm not proud of it...

I keep trying to ask Gox creditors what they got.. and I keep thinking that the amount received by Gox creditors was around 15%-ish of the size of what they had on the exchange (GOX).. .. but I am not really sure why I keep gravitating towards that 15% speculation number.

15% is pretty spot on. I chose ELSP (Early Lump Sum Payment). Those who chose Final Payment would get around ~20% I believe, but they haven't been credited in full yet as far as I know. I just wanted it to get over with.

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September 20, 2024, 11:25:24 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Krubster (1)

I keep trying to ask Gox creditors what they got.. and I keep thinking that the amount received by Gox creditors was around 15%-ish of the size of what they had on the exchange (GOX).. .. but I am not really sure why I keep gravitating towards that 15% speculation number.

15% is pretty spot on. I chose ELSP (Early Lump Sum Payment). Those who chose Final Payment would get around ~20% I believe, but they haven't been credited in full yet as far as I know. I just wanted it to get over with.

The percentage given back to gox creditors who chose the early lump sum payment was 15.8%. I don’t think there is an exact number yet for those who didn’t, but I do recall seeing something about early lump sum payouts receiving a second payout down the line if the funds leftover for the final payouts exceed some percentage. I believe it was 19.8%, but I could also be pulling that number out of my ass.
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September 20, 2024, 11:42:18 PM
Merited by d_eddie (1)

I see rumors circulating online about rumors that big banks may soon be able to custody your crypto. Meaning that you’ll be able to have (for example) Bank of America hold onto your Bitcoin for you instead of an exchange or self custody. I think this will go a long way towards making mortgages backed by Bitcoin a reality for the masses. It could also spur more adoption from people who avoid crypto exchanges and don’t want to self custody, which I imagine is a lot.

Sounds like they are planning on Rehypothecation.
degxtra1
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September 20, 2024, 11:49:20 PM

What I am hearing is that we really need to find new ways to market Bitcoin to the ignorant masses.

PMs have been around for millennia, are deemed a safe investment by governments, banks, financial gurus, and the mass media, and yet...

...none of the ignorant masses around me that I know (e.g., friends, family, colleagues, etc.) even OWN any investment gold, silver, etc.

Literally zero ownership.

Ignorant masses in most cases just want to remain ignorant to justify their not investing, period.

They would rather moan about being poor, than to actually take action to do something about it.

So if they refuse, or can't afford, to purchase PMs, then what makes us believe that they would invest in Bitcoin?

The same rules apply, I think.

Because investing is hard, requires parting with money they barely have (and that they would rather spend elsewhere), and requires taking risks.

You just described my friends attitude to investing. And your conclusions are simply true. 100+ merits.
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September 21, 2024, 12:01:18 AM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
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September 21, 2024, 01:01:14 AM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
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