[2017/02/09] Anger Grows at PBOC’s Interference with Bitcoin

[bitlamp]

Following yet another sharp price drop due to the secretive, closed-door and private actions of China’s Central Bank, the bitcoin community turned today to angry rhetoric directed at PBOC.

“You can’t live in a fascist state and not expect the fascist state to come bursting through your door to slap you around, every now and then.” – says one bitcoiner. “I am about sick of China.” – says another. “It’s safe to say that China is going to keep saying something every time Bitcoin gets close to the value of Gold.” – says a third.

PBOC stands accused of taking measures against bitcoin every time price rises. Just as bitcoin surpassed gold parity, they announced the opening of an “investigation” into China’s big three exchanges: BTCC, OKCoin and Huobi.

Price fell sharply by around $300, but then slowly recovered, increasing by around $170 from the beginning of this month to reach around $1,070. PBOC again interfered. Telling Bloomberg they were to hold a closed door meeting with nine of China’s smaller bitcoin exchanges: CHBTC, BtcTrade, HaoBTC, Yunbi, Yuanbao, BTC100, Jubi, BitBays and Dahonghuo.

PBOC warned them to comply with regulations or risk being shut down. Price initially reacted by $80, but it recovered and even went higher as PBOC’s language was ambiguous. A word for word translation reads: “If there is a Bitcoin trading platform in violation of the above requirements [related to money laundering, foreign exchange rules, taxation and advertising],[and] the circumstances are serious, the inspection team will bring it to the relevant departments [for the exchange] to be closed down according to [the] law.”

It is not fully clear whether PBOC is referring to violations that happen after the above warning, or to violations that may have occurred in the past. The price’s reaction suggested the former which would have earned PBOC some praise for acting reasonably. But then, OKCoin and Huobi announced they are to pause bitcoin and litecoin withdrawals for a time estimate of one month to enact measures that allows them to comply with the requirements of PBOC.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/anger-grows-pbocs-interference-bitcoin/

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[1Referee]

It was well expected that China would step in and force through certain changes as the demand for Bitcoin has constantly been increasing. I can't understand that certain people are upset or surprised about this. It's China that we are talking about after all. You can't expect them (or any other) government to sit back and look at how something as tiny as Bitcoin grows larger and larger. Good thing (from a trader's point of view) about this uncertainty among people is, that it triggers panic sellers to cause the market to plummet heavily. It happens time on time again. It's almost looks too good to be true.

[Idrisu]

people bank of china will continue playing this game until other countries developed the kind of interest Chinese has on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. What happened after the meeting with people bank of china warning to the exchangers is very unfortunate as bitcoin price sharply declined after the meeting. When ever china see great demand for bitcoin their will play this games.

[aso118]

These are just small restrictions imposed on Bitcoin exchanges. In a totalitarian state like China, the state can do a lot more. Even access to the internet is restricted. We should be happy that there is no large scale crackdown on Bitcoin. 

[Dmitry.Vastov]

Who dont get angry with their bullcraps. Everytime the bitcoin's price surges. They spread FUDs. So all bitcoin noobs will panic and panic sell their bitcoins and the price will drop again. Just like what happen recently. The good thing is only few believes on their bullcraps. So the drop is not bad.

[veleten]

instead of hating PBOC and China in general
look at the reasons why they became price trendsetters and try to copy some of the better things they are doing
like mass adoption,production of the most advanced miners in the world,most trading volumes at their exchanges etc.
its easy to hate but its not that easy to do something to combat the situation

[notthematrix]

Iam happy what the PBOC did.

they stoped speculation with uncovered BTC IOUs
If PBOC wanted to damage  bitcoin they would had done so years ago , but no only leveraged exchanges.
have a problem. others don´t.
Leveraged bitcoin trade is stupid , because the nubmer of bitcoins in known in the network.  
And trading bitcoin you don't have can not be restored by creating bitcoins out of thin air.
Like fiat banks do with fractional  reserve systems!
So It makes sense what PBOC is doing.

[DooMAD]

Not really seeing an issue here.  While Bitcoin itself should certainly never be regulated, Bitcoin businesses like exchanges can and should be.  There have evidently been some unethical practices by some of these exchanges over the years, like padding volumes to make it look like they do more trade than they actually do.  Some small amount of inconvenience with temporary suspension of withdrawals is infinitely preferable to another Gox-level event.  These guys needed a kick up the backside to stop cutting corners and engaging in questionable practices.

People should also try to limit the amounts they keep in centralised services that hold the private keys.  I can see how it's frustrating for people who may have been unlucky to be caught in the middle of a one-off transfer, but every time you hand your funds over to a third party, you are trusting that third party and the accompanying regulators with your funds.  Buying and selling peer-to-peer (the way Bitcoin was designed to be used, not this centralised third-party custodian stuff) negates the risk of regulators preventing or delaying your transaction. 

Day-traders, on the other hand, should absolutely understand by now that they are gambling with their funds and can lose everything at any time without warning.  It's not complicated.  The longer you leave your funds in play, the greater your risk of loss.  And I'm not just preaching from the sidelines, either.  This applies to me too.  If one of these exchanges suddenly vanishes overnight and all your coins are gone, I'm sorry, but you've (and I've) forfeit the right to whine about it.  We've seen it happen before and we know it's going to happen again at some point.   

Finally, the price isn't determined by the actions of the regulators as such, but more by how people react to it.  If you're so certain that it is indeed a sinister government plot to reduce the price, why not take full advantage and buy from the weak hands while it's cheaper?  Seeing as you're already gambling on exchanges anyway?   

[Carlton Banks]

There have evidently been some unethical practices by some of these exchanges over the years, like padding volumes to make it look like they do more trade than they actually do.  

Note that DooMAD is an anti-Bitcoin troll account, padding out his credibility here with 1 post in 1000 that isn't perpetrating a divide & conquer strategy against Bitcoiners, which is what DooMAD normally does with it's posts.

[DooMAD]

There have evidently been some unethical practices by some of these exchanges over the years, like padding volumes to make it look like they do more trade than they actually do.  

Note that DooMAD is an anti-Bitcoin troll account, padding out his credibility here with 1 post in 1000 that isn't perpetrating a divide & conquer strategy against Bitcoiners, which is what DooMAD normally does with it's posts.

Note that Carlton is a protectionist zealot with no respect for free market principles.  The only development is centralised development.  Independent thought (and particularly independent coding) is the work of heretics and all forum participants must be protectionist zealots engaging in an echo-chamber circle-jerk with Carlton, or else he will label them enemies of Bitcoin.  Anything else is a hostile takeover attempt in a system where hostile takeovers can't happen.  Despite the fact that the only changes permitted are those permitted by consensus, a proposed hard fork is still a hostile takeover attempt, even if that turns out to be what the majority of users want.  Carlton doesn't understand consensus and thinks it means the status quo has to be preserved forever and running different code is an attack on the network.  Despite being open source software where the licence permits modification, it turns out this is actually frowned upon in the Church of Carlton.  Anyone who doesn't agree with him is apparently a paid shill (still waiting for my payout, it seems).  Anyone who used to agree with him but then had a change of heart is apparently a double agent.  Carlton will live out the rest of his days in paranoia, jumping at shadows and seeing heretics wherever he goes.  It would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious.

I can promise you I am an ardent fan of and believer in Bitcoin.  I'm genuinely sorry that you seem to believe it's so delicate that it won't withstand someone questioning the direction of development because they have legitimate concerns regarding the permissionless and open nature of the system being potentially compromised by certain proposals if they aren't implemented correctly.  In case it hasn't sunk in yet, I believe SegWit and Lightning do have a role to play, but the average user shouldn't be left with no practical alternative but to be forced to use payment channels.  I'm also sorry if this perfectly reasonable standpoint is heresy in your zealot eyes.

Now if you're quite finished derailing this thread, perhaps you'd like to take this discussion to a more relevant one.

[Carlton Banks]

Note that Carlton is a protectionist zealot with no respect for free market principles.  The only development is centralised development.  Independent thought (and particularly independent coding) is the work of heretics and all forum participants must be protectionist zealots engaging in an echo-chamber circle-jerk with Carlton, or else he will label them enemies of Bitcoin.  

I make a special exception to this: for myself. I use an independent, non-Core Bitcoin wallet, and have done for nearly the whole time I've used Bitcoin.

I can promise you I am an ardent fan of and believer in Bitcoin.  

If you were, you wouldn't consistently undermine its principles.


Bitcoin's rules are supposed to be difficult to change, and that's because the rules are there to keep the system running safely and consistently. But you're constantly arguing, not just for the rules to be changed, but that whole system of codifying the rules should be changed into a democracy where the votes can be very easily bought (and falsely selling this change as a "free market").  


So, yeah, go you and your Bitcoin "belief"  The mouth is saying one thing, but the actions are saying something completely different.

[Carlton Banks]

Oh, and let's not forget DooMAD and his famous opposition to ad hominem posts....... except when he makes a long diatribes consisting of nothing but personal sleights and insults.

The hypocrisy reeks

[TraderTimm]

Oh, and let's not forget DooMAD and his famous opposition to ad hominem posts....... except when he makes a long diatribes consisting of nothing but personal sleights and insults.

The hypocrisy reeks

Why are these idiots coming in here? I thought the news section was too boring for these people.... which is why its the only section I check anymore.

DooMAD, BurtW.... just 'eff off into the main forums, KTHX.

[nikkisnowe]

Oh, and let's not forget DooMAD and his famous opposition to ad hominem posts....... except when he makes a long diatribes consisting of nothing but personal sleights and insults.

The hypocrisy reeks

Why are these idiots coming in here? I thought the news section was too boring for these people.... which is why its the only section I check anymore.

DooMAD, BurtW.... just 'eff off into the main forums, KTHX.

I agree.  I don't even bother with the Bitcoin general discussion board but rather stick to the "Development and Technical" or "Press" sub-boards.  The general discussion board has devolved over the past year or two into an un-moderated cesspool of low quality topics discussing such as, who's Satoshi, what would you do with XXX bitcoins, Why the name "Bitcoin" is the perfect name etc., or else school-yard "you are/no you are" arguments between anonymous trolls such as these two.  

[DooMAD]

Oh, and let's not forget DooMAD and his famous opposition to ad hominem posts....... except when he makes a long diatribes consisting of nothing but personal sleights and insults.

The hypocrisy reeks

I'm opposed to ad hominem posts if they're getting in the way of a reasoned and legitimate discussion.  If I thought you were still capable of having a reasoned discussion, I'd happily have one.  But every time we encounter each other, you start making out like I'm some sort of terrorist and contribute literally nothing to the conversation because you're so busy sniping.  You came into this thread for no other reason than to take a shot at me, because that's just how sad and pathetic you are.  And since you shot first, I'll happily return fire.  I'm a fairly patient person for the most part and I'm prepared to give people the benefit of doubt up to a point.  If I see reason and compromise I'll back down.  But you are well past that point.  I'm now convinced that there's something wrong with you in the head.  I'll play nice and keep the peace with others, but I'll be treating you very differently from now on.  Try to keep it out of the news forum in future, though.  Again, there was literally no other reason for you to post in this thread than to be a dick.

I can promise you I am an ardent fan of and believer in Bitcoin.  

If you were, you wouldn't consistently undermine its principles.


Bitcoin's rules are supposed to be difficult to change, and that's because the rules are there to keep the system running safely and consistently. But you're constantly arguing, not just for the rules to be changed, but that whole system of codifying the rules should be changed into a democracy where the votes can be very easily bought (and falsely selling this change as a "free market").  

If that's the impression you got, you seriously need to work on your reading comprehension.  I never said it should be easier to change the rules, but at the same time I don't think the system should ossify to the point where it can't change either, as always there needs to be a healthy balance.  The only thing I'm changing is the narrative because your restrictive and authoritarian one is getting old.  I said everyone is free to compete; any dev can code anything they like, any user can run anything they like.  Everyone is free to do what they want.  But you'll no doubt twist that into something nefarious because someone on the internet disagreed with you and you can't tolerate it.

But it doesn't matter anyway.  All you can do now is have your little meltdowns and tantrums, screaming FORK OFF at people because there's literally nothing you can do to stop them.  Keep crying about power grabs and takeovers like a fool.  We already have a free market and simply knowing that it eats away at you on the inside because you're completely powerless to do anything about it puts a smile on my face.  Consensus will decide and that's good enough for me.   If you want to discuss this further, take it to another thread, please.

Why are these idiots coming in here? I thought the news section was too boring for these people.... which is why its the only section I check anymore.

DooMAD, BurtW.... just 'eff off into the main forums, KTHX.

I agree.  I don't even bother with the Bitcoin general discussion board but rather stick to the "Development and Technical" or "Press" sub-boards.  The general discussion board has devolved over the past year or two into an un-moderated cesspool of low quality topics discussing such as, who's Satoshi, what would you do with XXX bitcoins, Why the name "Bitcoin" is the perfect name etc., or else school-yard "you are/no you are" arguments between anonymous trolls such as these two.  

I'll try to resist the temptation to lower myself to Carlton's level outside of the general discussion cesspool in future.  If either of you can find fault with my first post, before the real troll arrived, please tell me.  I get sick of the pointless, low quality threads just as much as everyone else who has been here longer than 5 minutes.  I find myself drawn to the News and Politics subforums because the main Bitcoin Discussion board is becoming increasingly tedious.  It's hardly my fault Carlton came in here shitting up a perfectly good thread.  I'm happy to get back to exchanges and regulators if anyone else is.

[Carlton Banks]

The only thing I'm changing is the narrative because your restrictive and authoritarian one is getting old.  I said everyone is free to compete; any dev can code anything they like, any user can run anything they like.  Everyone is free to do what they want.  But you'll no doubt twist that into something nefarious because someone on the internet disagreed with you and you can't tolerate it.

The only form of competition I'm interested in is legitimate and productive competition. You seem to think that simply because you can use deceit and subversion to win, you should do so.

I'm simply pointing out that you're a dishonest actor, painting themselves as honest. And what a surprise that you respond the same as the rest of your cohort; change the subject and make baseless counter-accusations in huge walls of distracting text, that even an infant can discern as false.



Your only real skill seems to be constructing elaborate falsehoods. I feel for you, it must be lonely being like that.

[epitome]

What every trader should be doing is do not trade in a Chinaman's BTC exchange. Some of them will fall because they will not earn anything anymore. Their schemes are put to a stop by the PBOC.

The main attraction of these exchanges was that there were no fees for the transactions and so is the reason everyone used them to trade and with the new development i will be interesting to see how people will react to their regulations and banning of withdrawals.

[Kprawn]

You should think that the country with the highest amount of Bitcoin mining in the world, would support the technology that are generating

income for their citizens. They are turning cheap electricity into currency and it creates jobs for many people. The PBOC has to protect their

fiat currency, and this is expected.... but draining the life out of a technology is unacceptable and would lead to a shift in the dominance they

have over this technology. 

[pangdmay]

China wants to buy time for other countries to expand into BTC.
In this case, all traders and investors alike may want to quit the Chinese market and go to foreign markets instead, like Japan and India.

[DooMAD]

What every trader should be doing is do not trade in a Chinaman's BTC exchange. Some of them will fall because they will not earn anything anymore. Their schemes are put to a stop by the PBOC.

The main attraction of these exchanges was that there were no fees for the transactions and so is the reason everyone used them to trade and with the new development i will be interesting to see how people will react to their regulations and banning of withdrawals.

Most of the traders who are interested to hold and keep their money in BTC will stop using them. What would be left are the professional traders and some of them or most will stop trading there eventually too because the pool will be unprofitable because of the lack of the small amateurs. This will then lead to some Chinese exchanges closing down or be merged with other exchanges.

It's also possible there were a large number of scripted or automated trade bots in use while the fees were zero, likely trading at very slim margins and high frequencies.  I'm guessing those got switched off in quite a hurry when the people running them heard about the fee changes.  High Frequency Trading is another one of those horrid traits from "legacy finance" that I'd prefer not to see mimicked in Bitcoin, so I'm quite pleased to see it getting stamped out before it becomes a huge problem.